Opioids NOW I get it, casual opiate user - NO such thing.

[wcote]

With tramadol and codeine its down to the person, back when i took them, codeine did it for me, didnt get much of tramdol TBH, but if one works better for you, and you wanna do it go for the best option

 

[Bojangles69]

There is definitely a such thing as a casual opiate user although I think its rare. But I use to watch my brother dabble back and forth with opiates, sometimes twice a week, sometimes 3 times a week, but usually never more. Did it for a few months and stopped. Took a couple months off. Started using again for a few more months. Stopped etc over and over. It was like this for a while and I couldn't even tell you when he stopped honestly. I think it was when he started taking soma, and then he got involved with those for a bit and it was literally like he "forgot" about taking opiates.

Or maybe because he saw me ruin my life on amphetamines 10 years ago and was innately smart enough to not have to ruin his own life to learn.

Like that one moderator said in here "you just can't handle your dope". Its that simple.
And another person said it has a lot to do with your relative environment and the situation you're in.
I think those 2 factors combine basically and then you get a result.

People are always cycling through life and going through ups and downs. If I'm in a down time, kinda like I have been for the last 4 years, I can't use casually, which is why I'm addicted right now. I mean I'm happy on one level, but only cause I'm on opiates. If I stopped opiates right now I'd likely realize how bad my life sucks and maybe kill myself. So opiates do actually help people in various ways I believe. Although obviously they do a lot to fuck up our lives too.

One thing I look at are stars or legends of our time, that were known to be alcoholics/drug addicts, but accomplished TONS more than your average person. Like "how did this person wake up everyday and go to work drunk, star in hundreds of movies drunk, make millions of dollars just by being drunk all the time... and appear to live such a perfect life when they were actually an alcoholic their whole life?" (like the woman "Mommy Dearest" was made after, sure she was one fucked up bitch, but HOW the hell did she accomplish what she did being an alcoholic her whole life?)

That seems to be one extreme of the coin. The way you see opiate addicts in some alley way throwing up and shaking, not a penny to their name... we NEVER really see the ones on the other side of the spectrum. We only really see the addicts that fail. But I've always wondered how many addicts are sitting out there, and live perfect lives, know they're drug addicts, but still managed to do something with their life that 99% of sober people can't even do? I think about shit like this a lot I think cause I'm just weird. But for me I'm not sure really where I want to stand in life yet.

I WANT to succeed and be the best I can. But I don't want to feel like a soul deprived robot in the process. A low controlled dose of suboxone everyday allows me to do a lot of things I can't do w/out suboxone. But on the other hand it also throws off certain areas of my life. I become an insomniac, and when I do fall asleep I sleep forever and can not wake up. So I'm still in the process of defining how opiates really serve me. I still think though that if I was on them for super long term (like 10-20 years) then I'd just decide never to come off them. I can't imagine the brain ever getting back to "normal" after that much abuse to your endorphins.

As of now I have about a collective 4 years on opiates. Its moderated very well but I'm still dependent. I don't shoot opiates and never have which I think also helps a lot. But I question what only these 4 years have done to my brain. Should I make a stronger effort to stop for good while I still think I have a chance? Or should I just lower my dose and try to maintain/struggle to get my life to a balance I'm happy with.

My ideal life isn't about really being on opiates or off them. Its about living the best/most successful life I possibly can in my short time here. One side shows me how opiates really are such a "social drug" of the masses. Fuck a cup of coffee in the morning and yawning for 3 hours before I wake up, I'll snort some sub and an hour later accomplished everything I needed to do for that day lol. Opiates are the grail of productivity... but off opiates I don't want to accomplish shit. So thats the addict side of me. I don't feel I can be as productive as I really need to be w/out opiates. And it scares me that opiates may also shorten my life due to this. I'll wind up running my body straight to the ground. Can't feel soreness or fatigue untill that dose wears off, and with sub thats basically never lol.

Something still doesn't seem right about being an opiate addict to me though, or even using casually. Maybe its just because I come from a very anti-drug family. But my mother always use to say "whatever you put in your body takes away your bodies natural ability to fight the problem you're trying to address with drugs". She has NEVER even taken a tylenol before for a headache. I have no idea how I turned into a fucking opiate addict having parents like this. My dads the same way. And I fear one day "wow I'm gonna have to come off this shit and deal with 4, 5.... xxxhowever many years of endorphin abuse". How long am I gonna have to deal with being suicidal when I come off this shit?

Is it really gonna be worth it then?
Is it ever really worth it?
Or maybe once again its not about the drugs at all. Maybe its just all about me. Maybe I like to take opiates because if I fail at life I'll have something to blame. Maybe I'm just too much of a pussy to deal with life on lifes terms. Maybe I'm too spoiled to deal with a bad day sober so I make EVERYDAY a goodday and take my sub. I mean thats what really scares the shit out of me. I haven't had one bad day in the 4 fucking months I've been on sub. Thats just not normal. And I have no idea how I got so gravely off topic so let me just end this here. But yeh this thought surely goes through my head at least once a day. When I really think about it I think "why the fuck would I want to be a casual opiate user?" it takes away ALL THE FUN of being on opiates. You're telling me the fun way to use opiates is to take them one day then feel shitty for the next 2-3 days? Fuck that. The fun with opiates is never coming off them. That way everyday can be a good day... untill the day we stop at least, and then we wind up blowing our heads off. So maybe opiates aren't a good thing? lol

 

[wcote]

Dude Oxy's are such a waste of money. And makes a lot of people things it doesnt matter they are abusing an opiate, its a gives so many false believes, heroin smoked, (ID never recommend IV) gives you SO much more ban for your buck.

Oxy's are just piss nothing compared and anyone who says different aint had good gear.

 

[iPhrozon]

What is your question? If you've been two weeks sans the drugs, the worst of it is over. There are lingering negative repercussions from prolonged use of Opioids, but realistically what you're experiencing is the deficit of Amphetamine in your system, resulting from cessation of long term daily use. It'll get better, give it some time. Eat well, exercise, and maybe pick up some vitamins to help re-balance yourself. Achieve homeostasis.

His level of amphetamine dependence probably isn't that bad. Amphetamines are pretty easy to give up. They aren't like other drugs in that you don't often find yourself think "wow, I wish I could tweak right now". Amphetamines become a normal part of your life and you learn not to notice them. I am speaking from experience with Vyvanse, Adderal, and methylphenidate(not amphetamine, but qualitatively nearly identical).

 

[NeighborMike]

Heres my recent story just to see if it helps anyone, or matters, whatever

So the job im at makes you go on tenure for 3 months. A few weeks before this happened i met a person who liked to bang roxies and do heroin, just being the type of person I am i wasnt objective to it and saw no reason no to to do it myself. Ive done all these things before anyhow (yes casually) This person went to jail because they actually were an addict and did xyz thing to get money where as money isnt really a problem for me. I continued to do it by myself to battle bordem and depression due to various things. I was pretty much doing about 4 a day sprinkled in with a little bit of heroin just cause its no really available where im at, or at least not to the person I got my roxies from, on weekends I typically did more. Maybe 10 a day

A few weeks ago I went back to work, at the same time I did that the person I know was schedule to be released from jail. So I tapered down and stopped completely this monday because the person now has to go to drug court. Combined with the fact I had to start working again. Its now thursday, physically i honestly feel shitty physically but even with sub strips around im choosing to just deal with it, almost a self imposed punishment.

For anyone who says you cant do it casually thats certainly wrong. You have to mentally decide that you want to quit. Sometimes it takes alleviating the problems that cause a person to start doing drugs. As I said above it was basically due to bordem and depression.

If youre stuck in a rut and really dont think you can stop try to find some kind of motivating factor. Mine right now are work and to be in supportive of my former addict friend who is now in drug court.

Keep in mind people can find enjoyment in a lot of different things, ITS ALL MENTAL, nothing more nothing less. I have a physical addiction now but its worth turning my back on the friend who needs support or fucking up my job which I excel at.

Whoever says it cant be done, just remember mentally you can turn anything into heroin (or an opiate) you just have to make the decision, it doesnt matter what it is you can do yoga for 5 hours a day just as long as its motivation to do something other then durgs.

Lastly if you really dont think you can do it on your own dont hesitate to ask some one for help. I had another friend who was addicted to roxies and was too embarrassed to ask for help. He tried to get off them by himself but with withdrawals were too much, eventually he cracked and asked his family for help as a last resort. Come to find out rather then be mad or embarrassed they were 110% supportive of his decision to come clean about his problem and take the proper steps to clean up.

 

[albastrux]

It's all about willpower. I do agree that opiates/opioids have a greater tendency to cause addiction and dependence, that is something we can all agree upon. The fact of the matter is that for people like verso and myself, we do use recreationally but we also have financial responsibilities and such to attend to.

What I do every week when I get paid is pay my bills, put gas in my car, do my food-shopping or what have you, and then, if I have enough left over, I buy some dope. I only insufflate it, period. That definitely is a factor, though perhaps a minute one, in what kind of a hold the drug has over you. This having been said, it's all time-appropriate, also. If I have studying to do, or work, or whatever, I obviously can't blow a bag and then do those things, or go to class, or whatever. All of my work, school, etc takes precedence to my recreational drug usage.

I like to look at it, in my case specifically, as a way to unwind. Some people come home from work and pop open a beer or have a drink or something. Some people like to smoke weed at the end of a long day. Then again, there are some people who can't have a drink at the end of the day because perhaps they have a problem with alcohol. The same goes with drugs, in my opinion. Instead of a beer, I draw and snort a line of heroin.

People can judge me however they choose, but I am always on time for work, I always get everything done that I need to, I always pay my bills, I always have gas in my car, all of my homework gets done, I always go to class and I get good grades on top of all of that. I don't see the problem with doing some dope every so often if you can still manage all of your responsibilities.

Even then, sometimes I opt to buy myself other things like clothes and makeup or whatever, or I take my boyfriend out for dinner. It is what it is and everyone is different. What is a problem for one person may not be a problem for another.

 

[verso]

I love this thread, man. You've got those users who have become addicts and would like to believe that it's not a weakness in themselves but rather it's a substance so unbelievably addictive that there isn't one person on this planet who can use it casually. Then, on the other hand, you've got those casual users who would like to believe that they're just so full of will-power; they're so disciplined, so strong-willed that they can use substances without ever becoming addicts or physically dependent.

It's so much more complex an explanation than all that, and it's ridiculous, really, to believe that it can come down to just one thing or another, will-power, biology, whatever...

 

[xburtonchic]

Addiction is far too complicated and involves way too many individual factors to be able to pin it down to a science. Like someone else said earlier, opiates aren't some sort of mystical drug different from all the rest. And it is indeed possible to maintain a casual level of use. My own personal experiences with opiates (and other drugs) can definitely attest to that.

I'm 23 now; the first time I ever tried opiates is when I was 16. I took a few Vicodin, absolutely hated the high, and didn't touch the stuff again for a few years. When I was 19, my best friend offered me a Vicodin. I took it. This time, I liked the high. Even so, I only did it whenever my best friend offered me one, and sometimes I'd even turn it down. I'd say I did it probably a grand total of three times when I was 19. I never actively sought them out or anything either. Then one day, I just got over it. I stopped taking opiates completely, they just didn't appeal to me anymore when someone offered them to me.

Sounds good, right? Sounds like I was one of the lucky ones, right?

Yeah, not so much. I used to blame my addiction on my wisdom tooth surgery. I've realized however that I was already well on my way there a few months beforehand; my wisdom tooth surgery simply sped up the process. So, fast forward to the age of 21. I've always had really bad cramps, and Ibuprofen just wasn't cutting it anymore. My friend offered me a Vicodin. I accepted. FUCK YEAH I HAD FOUND THE MAGIC CURE! That was my first mistake. The euphoria was an added bonus, but at the time I was taking them purely for pain relief. I'm talking all symptoms that accompany a woman's "monthly visitor" = completely erased. No cramps, no lower back pain, no irritability or PMS to speak of. I went to my doctor, told her the situation, and for the next five months I was given a script of exactly 4 pills per month. However, I only needed two (my cramps tend to go away after the second day, and one Vicodin was enough to last me the entire day at the time). I'd take the two I needed, set the other two aside, and forget about them. I had a steadily growing pile of Vicodin. That was my second mistake.

So at this point, I'm five months into taking Vicodin for cramps and have grown to like the high a little too much. And this is where my third mistake comes in... I popped two Vicodin one day when I didn't need them. I knew they were addicting, because I'd seen my best friend's boyfriend deal with a very small addiction about a year before that. (Another example of how complicated addiction is, but more on that later.) But since I'd taken opiates so many times before in the past... 7 years ago... 2 years ago... 1 year ago... with absolutely no problems, I assumed I had nothing to worry about and that I could get high just this once. Except that "just this once" soon turned into once a week. Which soon turned into a few times a week. Which soon turned into a few times a week with an upped dosage- 3 1/2 instead of two. I wasn't yet physically addicted at this point, just mentally. When my connects would run dry and I'd have to go a week or two without, I'd be irritated as fuck, but I wouldn't get sick. So that's where I sat with opiates when it came time for my wisdom tooth surgery.

Imagine my delight when I went home with a 30 Vicodin and 6 Percocet for only a little over $10. Took the Percs, they didn't even get me high (I've no idea why, but to this day Oxycodone doesn't work on me even though Hydrocodone does. Weird.) So anyway, the plan was to finish that script and then be done with it. Could have done it too, except my mouth had other plans and decided to develop a couple dry sockets. If you've ever had a dry socket, then you know how fucking INTENSE the pain is... like someone is stabbing a knife into your jaw and twisting it around while you have a migraine. Even just one is bad, but two is just... torture...

So that kicked my addiction up a notch. By the end of that month and a half, I was officially physically addicted to opiates. I was still on a low daily dose, only 4 1/2 pills a day, but when I was finally cut off by my dentist I went into withdrawal anyway. It was a very, VERY mild withdrawal though... the only symptoms I can remember were the sore joins/achiness... still nothing compared to full blown w/d however... and some restlessness. I was still able to go out with friends, sleep, be productive, etc. I genuinely thought I was just sick or had the flu or something... I had no idea at the time that it was withdrawal. It had been three days, and the aches and pains were getting increasingly worse. Tylenol wasn't helping, so take a wild guess what I did...

(I often mentally beat myself up over this part. I should have stopped right then and there... I COULD have stopped. I'd made it through three days, not even realizing I was in withdrawal. I wasn't even having cravings. And I was on DAY THREE. Had I stuck it out just until the NEXT FREAKING MORNING, I'd have woken up to find that the aches and pains were a little bit better... and a little better the next day... and the next... until they'd have gone away completely, and my currently reality would have been gone with them. I still can't believe I had a chance at the easy way out and didn't take it. Hah. The irony of life. Those very, VERY mild withdrawals were certainly endurable... in fact, compared to the full-blown w/d's I experienced later, they were like lying on a bed of feathers and clouds and rainbows. If only I knew then what I knew now, I'd have taken that chance and grasped it. I was SO CLOSE to freedom... so close. Anyway, I suppose there's no point in beating myself up over something I can't go back into the past and change. It's just a bit frustrating.)

... yep, I called my old connect and he gave me a few Vicodin. That was my fourth mistake. And what a surprise, within an hour I was feeling wonderful again and all traces of pain were gone. I had no idea that those two pills were the deciding factor of my entire future... or that the decision I had just made was a catalyst for two (and counting) years of hell. It just blows my fucking mind that if I had simply made one different decision two years ago, my life would be completely different and SO much better today. Like I said, I could have... I had tried taking tylenol and even darvocet for the pain up until that point and it simply wasn't working. I wasn't looking for a high when I took those Vicodin, all I was looking for was pain relief since the third day was the worst. If I had just made the decision to tough it out instead, who knows what my life would be like today. And there it is, chaos theory/the butterfly effect in action, one of life's biggest ironies.

Alright, I'm done raging at myself. So I took the Vicodin. Ran out, got achy again. Took more Vicodin, ran out, got achy again. A week later, I finally had that "Oh fuck" moment and realized what I'd done. At this point, I made the best decision I've made so far in regards to this whole mess: I sucked it up, popped a few Vics for courage, and called my doctor. Our conversation went something like this...

Me: "I have a problem..."
Dr.: "What kind of problem?"
Me: "I think I'm addicted to Vicodin..."
I then explained to her the situation- how I felt like crap whenever I didn't have Vicodin to take, how I was taking more than a normal amount, etc.
Dr.: (after a literal two minutes of silence) "Oh shit."
Me: (in shock that my doctor had actually just cussed, and also a bit scared of what that meant) "... yeahh..."
Dr.: "I was afraid something like this was going to happen."
I guess she had gone through my military medical records that I had given to my doctor's office a couple weeks prior and she saw that I had PTSD, which is apparently what got her worried.
Me: "So what do I need to do?"
Dr.: "There's a drug you can take called Suboxone that is made specifically to treat opiate addiction. I don't have a license to administer the treatment, but Dr. ***** does, and you can come in next week and talk to him."

She then prescribed me ten Vicodin to get me through the next week until I could see him. I was relieved because the conversation had gone SO much better than I thought... I was so scared to tell her. So for those of you who are currently addicted and want help but are too scared to ask for it, TAKE NOTE OF THIS!! Most doctors will be MORE THAN WILLING to help you. They understand. And you're not the first person they've treated or talked to about this. They won't judge you, they won't call the cops. So if that's the only thing that's stopping you from seeking help, just know that you don't have anything to worry about at all... it's easier to fess up than you think!

So anyway, the plan was to see this new doctor and get on Suboxone. Except the insurance company wouldn't cover it. His solution to this was to try and taper me off. With Norco. And here you have mistake number five, except this time it was my doctor's. Because see, at this point, I was still only at a 4 1/2 maybe 6 a day habit. Here's what he SHOULD have done: he should have taken note of my usage, seen that it was hardly severe enough to warrant any sort of treatment let alone Suboxone, and sent me on my way with a script of some sort of strong non-narcotic painkiller and maybe some benzos, to help me get through the next few days of what would have been a very mild withdrawal. Instead, he handed me a script for more opiates (Norco) and told me to take 6 per day, one every four hours.

This method of "treatment" is what kicked my addiction into high-gear. Because now I was taking an opiate 2x stronger than the one I was addicted to AND I was taking more of it. And just like that, I went from a 25-45 mg a day habit to 60 mg. I didn't even stop to question how this method made any sort of sense, because the addict in me was so overjoyed that I got to get high (legally!) for super cheap while I got "better". Hahahaha. I see the irony in that sentence, do you? I was supposed to taper down by 1/2 a mg every two weeks, be switched back to Vicodin when I was at 2 a day, then continue to taper THAT down until I was only at .25 mg, at which point I would jump off.

OBVIOUSLY it didn't work that way. I was getting strong opiates for cheap, I was higher than ever (and therefore more productive, euphoric, etc... I did SO well in school that semester lol), and on top of that I didn't have to hide it anymore because now that I was being "treated" it was suddenly "acceptable". It wasn't long before 60 mg a day just wasn't enough and I had to seek out additional sources. I was up to 140 mg a day before I finally told my doctor that I was failing miserably at this tapering business. He decided to put me on Suboxone and just give me the sample pills they kept at the office until we could figure out a way for my insurance company to approve it (which they finally did!) We set up an appointment for the next week and I was good to go... I was going to get my life back on track and finally get off of opiates for good... or so I thought.

In short, I've been on Suboxone for a little over a year now and am having IMMENSE trouble getting off of it. (Buprenorphine, the active ingredient in Suboxone, is an opiate for those of you who don't know. It just doesn't get you high because of the Naloxone added to it.) I developed severe anxiety after getting off the pills, so he prescribed me Xanax as well a short while later. I'm now dependent on that, too. It's nothing like opiates... benzo's were never my vice... in fact, I was on them for a few months when I was 15 and never had any problems once I stopped taking them- my anxiety didn't come back until very recently, 7 years later from when I was last prescribed them. I'd be lying if I said there weren't a few times that I'd take a few extra just to get high or that I didn't turn to my Xanax whenever my emotions became too overwhelming to deal with now that I didn't have opiates to fall back on. But I stopped doing that MONTHS ago, I only take them as prescribed and sometimes even less, I don't get cravings for them, I don't feel the need to take more, etc. In fact, if it weren't for the fact that it could potentially be dangerous (and if it weren't for my anxiety of course), I probably wouldn't even remember to take them at all. I'm not ADDICTED, but according to my doctor he has no doubt in his mind that I am DEPENDENT, simply because I was kept on them for such a long time. Whether or not there really is a level of physical dependence there or not, I don't know... but I'm not willing to risk a seizure to find out, so I will continue tapering like my addiction specialist told me to.

So there you have it. I went from hating opiates, to not taking them at all, to taking them only very VERY rarely or only when needed, to not taking them at all AGAIN, to being a casual user, to becoming dependent, and finally into a full-blown addict. While at the same time having developed a possible dependence to benzo's, another thing I didn't have any problem with when I had taken them previously. I've done A LOT of different substances- alcohol, weed, coke, meth, shrooms, E, pharms- Coricidin, Adderall, Soma, sleeping pills, benzos (Valium, Xanax, Klonopin, Ativan), opiates... and yet nothing has taken a hold of me the way opiates have. To be fair, I did abuse the Coricidin and meth for quite a bit in my experimental teenager phase... but that only lasted about two years, tops, and once I decided to stop I just stopped- I was able to walk away from it, never look back, no withdrawals, no cravings, haven't touched the stuff since (it's been 7 years!) and actually both of those drugs disgust me to this day. Not so with opiates. I could never simply walk away from opiates without having cravings or withdrawals, and even though I have confidence in myself that I WILL get clean, I know in my heart that I will never be disgusted by the thought of them. They'll always be a temptation, and I'll never be able to take them when it's necessary for medical reasons... not unless the prescribing physician keeps a very tight grip and a very steady eye on my prescription.

And then you have my best friend's boyfriend, who's addiction was very tame compared to mine (and even mine is tame compared to some others). He became addicted after only a few weeks of use, was taking about 9 5/500's per day for a month or two, then abruptly stopped. Just out of no where. It's been three years and he hasn't taken a Vicodin since.

Then there's my best friend herself, along with a couple other people I know. They've all been taking Vicodin recreationally for much longer than I have and have always managed to keep it under control. They don't take it more than MAYBE once or twice a month, if that. It's probably much less.

So, why are some people able to take opiates and control it while others can't? Why was it so easy for my friend's boyfriend to just up and quit after such a short time, while it takes other people years? Why did I get addicted now, instead of the very first time I took it... or even the second or third or fourth time? And why do opiates have so much power over me, while I could very easily never touch any other drug again in my life? Why is it the other way around for some other people?

The answer to these questions are simple: addiction is fucking complicated. There is no rhyme or reason to it. It can happen to anyone, at any point in their lives, whether it's their first time taking the drug or their billionth time taking it. There are so many variables- situation, life experiences, maybe even age. All of these things play a part.

Moral of the story: Be careful with drug use of ANY kind, no matter what drug it is. Either that, or just listen to what the D.A.R.E. officers told you in 5th grade- don't do drugs. Addiction is a sneaky bitch, you just never know...

 

[TheLostBoys]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You sound like a drug counselor trying to get a message across. Also, you take a chance telling your doctor you are addicted to a narcotic because they can label you a drug seeker when you really need opiates for legit pain. I would never tell my doctor I was addicted to drugs but that just me.

 

[xburtonchic]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You sound like a drug counselor trying to get a message across. Also, you take a chance telling your doctor you are addicted to a narcotic because they can label you a drug seeker when you really need opiates for legit pain. I would never tell my doctor I was addicted to drugs but that just me.

Well, yeah. Of course I'm trying to get a message across, that is what people do on forums. The message I was trying to get across is that addiction isn't that simple and it isn't something you can pin down to an exact science, like some people are trying to do. I'm not sure how relaying my experience with opiates (like everyone else has done on this thread) makes me sound like I'm trying to preach or something though...? *shrugs* I NEEDED opiates for legit pain... I kept taking them long after the pain I was taking them for was long gone... all I needed them for at that point was to stave off withdrawals. I'm not sure how telling my doctor that I want help to get off of opiates would make me seem like a drug seeker... quite the opposite, actually... I'm trying not NOT take drugs anymore. And I'm glad I did take that chance, because if I hadn't then who knows where I would be right now. Definitely not in recovery, that's for sure. I have no doubt in my mind that I would have progressed on to something much worse than Vicodin had I not put a stop to it when I did. I'm proud of having enough courage to seek out help, I have absolutely no regrets about it. No one judged me, it didn't affect my ability to get prescriptions when I need them (I have had another surgery since and was prescribed Norco), and my medical records weren't flagged or anything. Everything turned out pretty well if you ask me.

 

[ratgirldjh]

My rattie girl is an ex junkie. she was an H junkie for like 8 or more years and was off and on methadone. finally switched to just methadone and then came off that and was straight for 10 years. Then she got hooked on pods for about 2 years or so and then tapered off them and not does kratom in small amounts (leaf only) and not daily.

eta: when she first started H she would only do it monthly. then it progressed to weekly, then 2x a week (weekend) then several times a week and then daily and then several times a day.... it creeps up on you

 

[What was it?]

I make 350k a year, am addicted to opiates......life is ok, but psychologically I'd just like to have a day without opiates/heroin on my mind. Just one day please!!! But it will never happen. It is my destiny and I have to accept it. Life is still quite ok...i travel, go to the ygm, have women, healthy..all good.....but i am a drug addict.

 

[TheLostBoys]

I make 350k a year, am addicted to opiates......life is ok, but psychologically I'd just like to have a day without opiates/heroin on my mind. Just one day please!!! But it will never happen. It is my destiny and I have to accept it. Life is still quite ok...i travel, go to the ygm, have women, healthy..all good.....but i am a drug addict.

Yes, it always helps when you earn good money. When you make the money you do, there are less pressures & you have the chance to experience everything that life has to offer. If you dont mind me asking, what drove you to try opiates? Im sure it wasnt the pressures of paying your bills or anything on that line.

 

[Notoocleaver]

Ya for sure! I am in search for the healthy balance which I am planning to stay at 20-40mg of viks/0xy just on the weekends. Currently take 30-60mg daily. Getting sick of the daily shackles but not really a fan of weed and drink. Hopefully I can get there
Withdrawal is inevitable.

 

[NeighborMike]

I make 350k a year, am addicted to opiates......life is ok, but psychologically I'd just like to have a day without opiates/heroin on my mind. Just one day please!!! But it will never happen. It is my destiny and I have to accept it. Life is still quite ok...i travel, go to the ygm, have women, healthy..all good.....but i am a drug addict.

no one is destined to be a drug addict bro

i make good money too, thats no excuse for me to allow my recreational use turn into an addiction

 

[muvolution]

I think what he meant to say is that once you've been down that road with opiates, you are addicted for life, even if your addiction is not active. I certainly feel that way as even when I go long stretches of time without using, filling up my days with productive stuff, etc, I would trade all the art I've produced, all the music I've made, to just sit there and be content... It is the hardest thing to do.

In his Diaries, Jim Carroll talks about how the hardest thing, one of the hardest things in the world is to be able to sit there and just be content and feel good, and not have any thoughts weighing on your mind. Buddhists spend their entire life seeking that through meditation, and the very powerful yogis and llamas that can do it can do it for days, but like, fuck, if I get 20 D's I can be like that for days, ya know? So there is this ability to achieve perfection, but I gotta think that for every day of bliss you take from opiates, they take back 3 on the tail end, at least.

My clean stretches are a year, 6 months at a time, and even then it is often with the aid of suboxone (I'm glad I haven't gotten addicted to that as i'd rather get dumped off by dilaudid or H and have to go through 3 days of hell than 3 weeks. Not to discourage anyone on here from stopping their suboxone, you just have to really want it.

After my experiences with done and subs, i'm not so sure state-sponsored addiction is such a good thing, but that's a topic for another day.

 

[muvolution]

This is such a good fucking post that all of you who didn't read it because it was too long have a chance to try again, and everyone who read it the first time can read it again because it's that fucking good.

she's a good writer also.

Addiction is far too complicated and involves way too many individual factors to be able to pin it down to a science. Like someone else said earlier, opiates aren't some sort of mystical drug different from all the rest. And it is indeed possible to maintain a casual level of use. My own personal experiences with opiates (and other drugs) can definitely attest to that.

I'm 23 now; the first time I ever tried opiates is when I was 16. I took a few Vicodin, absolutely hated the high, and didn't touch the stuff again for a few years. When I was 19, my best friend offered me a Vicodin. I took it. This time, I liked the high. Even so, I only did it whenever my best friend offered me one, and sometimes I'd even turn it down. I'd say I did it probably a grand total of three times when I was 19. I never actively sought them out or anything either. Then one day, I just got over it. I stopped taking opiates completely, they just didn't appeal to me anymore when someone offered them to me.

Sounds good, right? Sounds like I was one of the lucky ones, right?

Yeah, not so much. I used to blame my addiction on my wisdom tooth surgery. I've realized however that I was already well on my way there a few months beforehand; my wisdom tooth surgery simply sped up the process. So, fast forward to the age of 21. I've always had really bad cramps, and Ibuprofen just wasn't cutting it anymore. My friend offered me a Vicodin. I accepted. FUCK YEAH I HAD FOUND THE MAGIC CURE! That was my first mistake. The euphoria was an added bonus, but at the time I was taking them purely for pain relief. I'm talking all symptoms that accompany a woman's "monthly visitor" = completely erased. No cramps, no lower back pain, no irritability or PMS to speak of. I went to my doctor, told her the situation, and for the next five months I was given a script of exactly 4 pills per month. However, I only needed two (my cramps tend to go away after the second day, and one Vicodin was enough to last me the entire day at the time). I'd take the two I needed, set the other two aside, and forget about them. I had a steadily growing pile of Vicodin. That was my second mistake.

So at this point, I'm five months into taking Vicodin for cramps and have grown to like the high a little too much. And this is where my third mistake comes in... I popped two Vicodin one day when I didn't need them. I knew they were addicting, because I'd seen my best friend's boyfriend deal with a very small addiction about a year before that. (Another example of how complicated addiction is, but more on that later.) But since I'd taken opiates so many times before in the past... 7 years ago... 2 years ago... 1 year ago... with absolutely no problems, I assumed I had nothing to worry about and that I could get high just this once. Except that "just this once" soon turned into once a week. Which soon turned into a few times a week. Which soon turned into a few times a week with an upped dosage- 3 1/2 instead of two. I wasn't yet physically addicted at this point, just mentally. When my connects would run dry and I'd have to go a week or two without, I'd be irritated as fuck, but I wouldn't get sick. So that's where I sat with opiates when it came time for my wisdom tooth surgery.

Imagine my delight when I went home with a 30 Vicodin and 6 Percocet for only a little over $10. Took the Percs, they didn't even get me high (I've no idea why, but to this day Oxycodone doesn't work on me even though Hydrocodone does. Weird.) So anyway, the plan was to finish that script and then be done with it. Could have done it too, except my mouth had other plans and decided to develop a couple dry sockets. If you've ever had a dry socket, then you know how fucking INTENSE the pain is... like someone is stabbing a knife into your jaw and twisting it around while you have a migraine. Even just one is bad, but two is just... torture...

So that kicked my addiction up a notch. By the end of that month and a half, I was officially physically addicted to opiates. I was still on a low daily dose, only 4 1/2 pills a day, but when I was finally cut off by my dentist I went into withdrawal anyway. It was a very, VERY mild withdrawal though... the only symptoms I can remember were the sore joins/achiness... still nothing compared to full blown w/d however... and some restlessness. I was still able to go out with friends, sleep, be productive, etc. I genuinely thought I was just sick or had the flu or something... I had no idea at the time that it was withdrawal. It had been three days, and the aches and pains were getting increasingly worse. Tylenol wasn't helping, so take a wild guess what I did...

(I often mentally beat myself up over this part. I should have stopped right then and there... I COULD have stopped. I'd made it through three days, not even realizing I was in withdrawal. I wasn't even having cravings. And I was on DAY THREE. Had I stuck it out just until the NEXT FREAKING MORNING, I'd have woken up to find that the aches and pains were a little bit better... and a little better the next day... and the next... until they'd have gone away completely, and my currently reality would have been gone with them. I still can't believe I had a chance at the easy way out and didn't take it. Hah. The irony of life. Those very, VERY mild withdrawals were certainly endurable... in fact, compared to the full-blown w/d's I experienced later, they were like lying on a bed of feathers and clouds and rainbows. If only I knew then what I knew now, I'd have taken that chance and grasped it. I was SO CLOSE to freedom... so close. Anyway, I suppose there's no point in beating myself up over something I can't go back into the past and change. It's just a bit frustrating.)

... yep, I called my old connect and he gave me a few Vicodin. That was my fourth mistake. And what a surprise, within an hour I was feeling wonderful again and all traces of pain were gone. I had no idea that those two pills were the deciding factor of my entire future... or that the decision I had just made was a catalyst for two (and counting) years of hell. It just blows my fucking mind that if I had simply made one different decision two years ago, my life would be completely different and SO much better today. Like I said, I could have... I had tried taking tylenol and even darvocet for the pain up until that point and it simply wasn't working. I wasn't looking for a high when I took those Vicodin, all I was looking for was pain relief since the third day was the worst. If I had just made the decision to tough it out instead, who knows what my life would be like today. And there it is, chaos theory/the butterfly effect in action, one of life's biggest ironies.

Alright, I'm done raging at myself. So I took the Vicodin. Ran out, got achy again. Took more Vicodin, ran out, got achy again. A week later, I finally had that "Oh fuck" moment and realized what I'd done. At this point, I made the best decision I've made so far in regards to this whole mess: I sucked it up, popped a few Vics for courage, and called my doctor. Our conversation went something like this...

Me: "I have a problem..."
Dr.: "What kind of problem?"
Me: "I think I'm addicted to Vicodin..."
I then explained to her the situation- how I felt like crap whenever I didn't have Vicodin to take, how I was taking more than a normal amount, etc.
Dr.: (after a literal two minutes of silence) "Oh shit."
Me: (in shock that my doctor had actually just cussed, and also a bit scared of what that meant) "... yeahh..."
Dr.: "I was afraid something like this was going to happen."
I guess she had gone through my military medical records that I had given to my doctor's office a couple weeks prior and she saw that I had PTSD, which is apparently what got her worried.
Me: "So what do I need to do?"
Dr.: "There's a drug you can take called Suboxone that is made specifically to treat opiate addiction. I don't have a license to administer the treatment, but Dr. ***** does, and you can come in next week and talk to him."

She then prescribed me ten Vicodin to get me through the next week until I could see him. I was relieved because the conversation had gone SO much better than I thought... I was so scared to tell her. So for those of you who are currently addicted and want help but are too scared to ask for it, TAKE NOTE OF THIS!! Most doctors will be MORE THAN WILLING to help you. They understand. And you're not the first person they've treated or talked to about this. They won't judge you, they won't call the cops. So if that's the only thing that's stopping you from seeking help, just know that you don't have anything to worry about at all... it's easier to fess up than you think!

So anyway, the plan was to see this new doctor and get on Suboxone. Except the insurance company wouldn't cover it. His solution to this was to try and taper me off. With Norco. And here you have mistake number five, except this time it was my doctor's. Because see, at this point, I was still only at a 4 1/2 maybe 6 a day habit. Here's what he SHOULD have done: he should have taken note of my usage, seen that it was hardly severe enough to warrant any sort of treatment let alone Suboxone, and sent me on my way with a script of some sort of strong non-narcotic painkiller and maybe some benzos, to help me get through the next few days of what would have been a very mild withdrawal. Instead, he handed me a script for more opiates (Norco) and told me to take 6 per day, one every four hours.

This method of "treatment" is what kicked my addiction into high-gear. Because now I was taking an opiate 2x stronger than the one I was addicted to AND I was taking more of it. And just like that, I went from a 25-45 mg a day habit to 60 mg. I didn't even stop to question how this method made any sort of sense, because the addict in me was so overjoyed that I got to get high (legally!) for super cheap while I got "better". Hahahaha. I see the irony in that sentence, do you? I was supposed to taper down by 1/2 a mg every two weeks, be switched back to Vicodin when I was at 2 a day, then continue to taper THAT down until I was only at .25 mg, at which point I would jump off.

OBVIOUSLY it didn't work that way. I was getting strong opiates for cheap, I was higher than ever (and therefore more productive, euphoric, etc... I did SO well in school that semester lol), and on top of that I didn't have to hide it anymore because now that I was being "treated" it was suddenly "acceptable". It wasn't long before 60 mg a day just wasn't enough and I had to seek out additional sources. I was up to 140 mg a day before I finally told my doctor that I was failing miserably at this tapering business. He decided to put me on Suboxone and just give me the sample pills they kept at the office until we could figure out a way for my insurance company to approve it (which they finally did!) We set up an appointment for the next week and I was good to go... I was going to get my life back on track and finally get off of opiates for good... or so I thought.

In short, I've been on Suboxone for a little over a year now and am having IMMENSE trouble getting off of it. (Buprenorphine, the active ingredient in Suboxone, is an opiate for those of you who don't know. It just doesn't get you high because of the Naloxone added to it.) I developed severe anxiety after getting off the pills, so he prescribed me Xanax as well a short while later. I'm now dependent on that, too. It's nothing like opiates... benzo's were never my vice... in fact, I was on them for a few months when I was 15 and never had any problems once I stopped taking them- my anxiety didn't come back until very recently, 7 years later from when I was last prescribed them. I'd be lying if I said there weren't a few times that I'd take a few extra just to get high or that I didn't turn to my Xanax whenever my emotions became too overwhelming to deal with now that I didn't have opiates to fall back on. But I stopped doing that MONTHS ago, I only take them as prescribed and sometimes even less, I don't get cravings for them, I don't feel the need to take more, etc. In fact, if it weren't for the fact that it could potentially be dangerous (and if it weren't for my anxiety of course), I probably wouldn't even remember to take them at all. I'm not ADDICTED, but according to my doctor he has no doubt in his mind that I am DEPENDENT, simply because I was kept on them for such a long time. Whether or not there really is a level of physical dependence there or not, I don't know... but I'm not willing to risk a seizure to find out, so I will continue tapering like my addiction specialist told me to.

So there you have it. I went from hating opiates, to not taking them at all, to taking them only very VERY rarely or only when needed, to not taking them at all AGAIN, to being a casual user, to becoming dependent, and finally into a full-blown addict. While at the same time having developed a possible dependence to benzo's, another thing I didn't have any problem with when I had taken them previously. I've done A LOT of different substances- alcohol, weed, coke, meth, shrooms, E, pharms- Coricidin, Adderall, Soma, sleeping pills, benzos (Valium, Xanax, Klonopin, Ativan), opiates... and yet nothing has taken a hold of me the way opiates have. To be fair, I did abuse the Coricidin and meth for quite a bit in my experimental teenager phase... but that only lasted about two years, tops, and once I decided to stop I just stopped- I was able to walk away from it, never look back, no withdrawals, no cravings, haven't touched the stuff since (it's been 7 years!) and actually both of those drugs disgust me to this day. Not so with opiates. I could never simply walk away from opiates without having cravings or withdrawals, and even though I have confidence in myself that I WILL get clean, I know in my heart that I will never be disgusted by the thought of them. They'll always be a temptation, and I'll never be able to take them when it's necessary for medical reasons... not unless the prescribing physician keeps a very tight grip and a very steady eye on my prescription.

And then you have my best friend's boyfriend, who's addiction was very tame compared to mine (and even mine is tame compared to some others). He became addicted after only a few weeks of use, was taking about 9 5/500's per day for a month or two, then abruptly stopped. Just out of no where. It's been three years and he hasn't taken a Vicodin since.

Then there's my best friend herself, along with a couple other people I know. They've all been taking Vicodin recreationally for much longer than I have and have always managed to keep it under control. They don't take it more than MAYBE once or twice a month, if that. It's probably much less.

So, why are some people able to take opiates and control it while others can't? Why was it so easy for my friend's boyfriend to just up and quit after such a short time, while it takes other people years? Why did I get addicted now, instead of the very first time I took it... or even the second or third or fourth time? And why do opiates have so much power over me, while I could very easily never touch any other drug again in my life? Why is it the other way around for some other people?

The answer to these questions are simple: addiction is fucking complicated. There is no rhyme or reason to it. It can happen to anyone, at any point in their lives, whether it's their first time taking the drug or their billionth time taking it. There are so many variables- situation, life experiences, maybe even age. All of these things play a part.

Moral of the story: Be careful with drug use of ANY kind, no matter what drug it is. Either that, or just listen to what the D.A.R.E. officers told you in 5th grade- don't do drugs. Addiction is a sneaky bitch, you just never know...

 

[Renz Envy]

TBH I have found amphetamine withdrawls to be more mentally traumatizing then stopping opiates.

EDIT: and what goes around.... comes around. Karmas a bitch... nothings free

Never have experienced opiate withdrawals, but certainly the amp kind. Not fun.

 

[xburtonchic]

muvolution, I'm glad you thought my post was that good! And I love to write, so what a compliment... thanks so much!

 

[prhighmalrage]

I also loved your post xburtonchic. This is sort of a pointless post I guess, but I really enjoyed reading your post and thinking about it in relation to my own life so I wanted to say so.