Non-Duality

[Foreigner]

My question is..

If this moment is so special then why I am sent negative images/thoughts that take me away from the thing I call "here"?

Let's start with meditation then and observing your thoughts. This won't lead you to the truth of reality but it will develop a tool you need to begin the work: the skill to see that you are pure consciousness that thoughts arise from, but your identity is not the thoughts.

Then, once you interrogate where those thoughts come from, I mean truly come from, without more stories, it's likely you will start to see what pure consciousness is.

This happens naturally when you fall to sleep. You're not dead, but the story of "you" ceases. You're just awareness. Then when sleep ends, you wake up and the story of "you" starts up again. Where did "you" go and how did "you" come back? Where did it come from? Who is the one that thinks it's a you?

Or maybe you have a dream, a dream in which you may be you, another person, or nobody. The dream feels real, so real that the "waking" reality you were just living doesn't even exist to you. Then you wake up from the dream and another dream, what the average person calls "reality," becomes apparent. You identify with it, just like you identified with the dream you were having, and go about your Samsaric life.

But who is the one having the dream?

The only thing real in a dream, is the dreamer.

Those thoughts aren't there 24/7. There are times in your day when there are no thoughts. You are so used to identifying with thinking and mind that you don't even notice the little moments when no thought is arising. Like when you pickup an object to use it without thinking... like when you reach for a glass of water. Those actions that have no thoughts, who is the one doing them, if not the thoughts, if not the personality who thinks they are the thoughts? Samsara is a dream and nobody is actually doing it -- only a thought makes it seem so.

Pure consciousness is the foundation of all thoughts. Even when you have a memory about the past and the memory seems so real like you're living in the past, that memory is happening now.

Pure consciousness is blissful because it is serene and peaceful, but it is neither positive nor negative. You could be getting tortured in a prison camp and pure consciousness would remain the same. It's the thoughts and feelings - the experience level that comes and goes - which attaches values. The person suffers the torture, pure consciousness does not.

That's not to say that thoughts and feelings don't matter. We're not making value judgments here. Remember, the goal is the truth of who you really are, and by extension, what all of reality is. They are one in of the same. It's not about stopping thoughts and feelings from happening - that is called spiritual bypassing - it's about embodying your human level experience in this present moment in the consciousness that is here and now. You could stub your toe and get angry and the anger will occur and then it's just gone because it's a temporary form. There is no clinging to the form.

There is a way to embody this human life in such a way that both the non-duality of god/oneness and the duality of the human individual are held in balance. The human level is not neglected or spiritually bypassed... they do not get dissolved into the "absolute" like when you hear spiritual automatons all sounding the same with, "I am not this body, I am not this mind, I am not this place, I am not this time." Yet you are seemingly you and not me. You are not a tree or a dog or a table. There are apparent forms. Yet all of those forms arise from the same consciousness. And at the same time, all forms are "lit up" by the same consciousness, the same non-duality. It's like cosmic puppetry, all the puppets are on the same hand, lit up by the same love, all interacting with each other, even fighting one another, and then the hand takes them off and says, kidding! But the joke is eternal love.

This is all very cerebral to talk about. The actual practice of it doesn't involve mind because mind can never get it. But on a "mind" level, it brings me peace because I know intellectually that I'm not the one doing this. Samsara goes on and on like a never ending ticker tape and it's all just God doing it. It's not enough to "know" this knowledge, because the knowing does not bring you peace. It is the meditation on the bliss that brings you the peace -- you have to practice it in every life situation. Satchitananda, Existence-Consciousness-Bliss, is readily accessible no matter where you are or what is apparently happening. You don't have to do anything. It's just there. The bliss from it is not a temporary state. It has natural qualities like peace, permanence, bliss, love, a feeling of home and surrender -- these are just words, but the qualities are reality.

Once you tap into that, the offerings of the Samsaric world pale in comparison. The "karma" of the person will continue to do what it does -- i.e. I am studying to go to med school, even though it's all just Samsara (a dream), and in this dream there's a person called Foreigner who wants to do it. But I'm aware it's all a cosmic dance of God doing itself. The real joy is in God, who is me-as-this-person, who is in everything and all forms. I can rejoice in who I am!

The tl;dr version: no matter what you do in life, good or bad, remember who you really are and keep asking yourself who you are until you reverse engineer the whole illusion down to the basement level reality. Then there will just be peace.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

I have modulator. Once it booted after non-stop blazing and ping ponging between bitter hatred and guilt. It felt incredible. It was shocking. I pulled down the cloth from wall, as I realized it was just what modulator had wanted me to maintain there.

But the new code started to form. Sometimes I am tormented of the two wills. Alleged sanity and arbitrary rule. Then I have peace again, for a while, and I try to establish continuum.

I don't wanna feel
Like I did that day

 

[Pain_in_vain]

Those thoughts aren't there 24/7. There are times in your day when there are no thoughts. You are so used to identifying with thinking and mind that you don't even notice the little moments when no thought is arising. Like when you pickup an object to use it without thinking... like when you reach for a glass of water. Those actions that have no thoughts, who is the one doing them, if not the thoughts, if not the personality who thinks they are the thoughts?

...and this is the response to the question I have raised on another thread titled "Who are you?"

This. Although that applies to me with certain storry, name and social persona. It is still quite useful if used as a tool.

Where are (who are) you between your two thoughts?

Good saying that I see useful in this thread is from Zen culture:

"The one who has a satori goes straigh to hell."

Grasping, identifying and clinging is the poison that ultimately is one of the ways to see the futility of it all.

People like to to say maya or karma or some third exotic (for the "westerners") word, but do not truly understand how down to earth are those words.

Let's take maya for an example. People translate it as an illusion. Although the illusion is the inevitable consequence the word maya means to measure. If we want to measure something we must devide the reality into categories and then to see if something is more high (higher) or more low(lower) than the other thing measure our invented categories. But if in the process of measuring we forget that we have somewhat arbitrarily created categories to make them useful we become "trapped in maya" or "trapped in measuring" and thus we no longer live in the reality but "illusion created by constantly measuring imagined parts of reality". And thus maya becomes an illusion. Don't get me wrong measuring is a great tool but when we start to use that tool to define our identity (I am this or that and am differnt than this things and therefore I am better, uglier, braver, dummer....) we misuse it and are living in an illusionary state of mind. We are trying to saw water into parts with a pocket knife and a hammer. We are confused cause we use a tool for the purpuses that the tool is not helpful at all.

Another one is karma. Karma means doing. Nothing else. If we do something in a proper/correct way we get proper/correct results, if we do things in a wrong way we get wrong results. Proper action (doing) leads us to place from where it is easier to do the proper action and doing the wrong way leads us further away from the place where action is more self evident.

Believeing that we can measure infinite leads us to places where there is more confusion to what action is appropriate. Translated to maya and karma - because of maya we create bad karma.

Maybe I strayed a bit from original topic but I wanted to give examples how we are lost in translation.

Hope you do the proper karma so your vision becomes clearer and maya becomes your ally and not the foe.

 

[Frog Dreams]

You don't need any words.
Satori. Karma. Maya. Samsari.
Words are attachment.

We need words (as reference points) to talk to each other.
I'm using words right now.

But I don't put any weight on any word.

 

[Pain_in_vain]

You don't need chainsaw to bring old and massive tree down you can use pocket knife or just wait for the right storm that will bring it down but chainsaw is a great tool for that purpose.

You dont need a bucket or a canister to bring larger amount of water from spring to a place that is 100 meters away, you can use your hands or mouth, but that would be a tool misused.

That's what I was trying to convey. But ok, you are using words to convey that I don't need words and yore discussing on a forum without "putting any weight" in the discussion. Gross misuse of energy if you ask me...

It is true I don't need them but they are a perfectly good tool when used correctly. So are thoughts and so is dildo for that matter if you're really high on stimulants and into that sorts of tools.

 

[Frog Dreams]

I know a lot of people that focus on terms from Indian religion. Hippies that chant Indian stuff and talk constantly about these terms. I don't think that's ultimately helpful because you need to let go of everything eventually.

Why build stuff up just to let go of it?

I don't think the tools are useful.
You don't need any tools.

I don't mean any offense.

If you don't have any attachment to these terms (and they are just reference points) then it doesn't matter.

The way you are describing things is unnecessarily complicated IMO.

 

[Frog Dreams]

This happens naturally when you fall to sleep. You're not dead, but the story of "you" ceases. You're just awareness. Then when sleep ends, you wake up and the story of "you" starts up again. Where did "you" go and how did "you" come back? Where did it come from? Who is the one that thinks it's a you?

Or maybe you have a dream, a dream in which you may be you, another person, or nobody. The dream feels real, so real that the "waking" reality you were just living doesn't even exist to you. Then you wake up from the dream and another dream, what the average person calls "reality," becomes apparent. You identify with it, just like you identified with the dream you were having, and go about your Samsaric life.

But who is the one having the dream?

The only thing real in a dream, is the dreamer.

People dream in an ego state. That's why we have nightmares about things in real life and why we see people and events from real life playing out in our dreams.

...

Not sure if I'm misunderstanding something you're saying about dreams because I agree with most of what you say.

You could be getting tortured in a prison camp and pure consciousness would remain the same. It's the thoughts and feelings - the experience level that comes and goes - which attaches values. The person suffers the torture, pure consciousness does not.

This struck me, in particular.

My ability to tolerate pain and discomfort has massively increased to the extent that I enjoy severe hangovers. They aren't unpleasant. I can be abused also. Someone can yell in my face and say horrible things to me and I feel nothing. My ego is not bruised because it is (mostly) not there to bruise.

It's not about stopping thoughts and feelings from happening - that is called spiritual bypassing - it's about embodying your human level experience in this present moment in the consciousness that is here and now. You could stub your toe and get angry and the anger will occur and then it's just gone because it's a temporary form. There is no clinging to the form.

But if you're truly at peace and deep in non-dual, the pain won't bother you. Anger is evidence that you are not there.

I agree you shouldn't stop anger - 100% - if it is there. It needs to be expressed / released / purged... but it doesn't need to be there.

In other words: you shouldn't stop those thoughts and feelings from manifesting if they are under the surface, but there is no problem with aspiring to not have those thoughts / feelings in the first place... which is entirely possible.

 

[Pain_in_vain]

@Frog Dreams would you be so kind to answer a simple question. I am sorry for overcomplicating before, now I will try to be more direct.

My question is - do you believe in an experiencer? Or to clarify it further - are there two experiencers?

Thank you for reading this question.

 

[Frog Dreams]

I am sorry for overcomplicating before

Don't be sorry on my account.

You are perfect, always.

The word SORRY (I don't believe in apologies anymore.)

What is the value of the word sorry, unless the recipient needs it? (And should they?) Do we feed their insecurities? Is that good for them in the long term? I have always raised my daughter to apologise and say thank you, but I've never really believed in social obligation in any form. We...

bluelight.org

My question is - do you believe in an experiencer? Or to clarify it further - are there two experiencers?

As I go further down this path, I increasingly don't believe in anything. All thought is attachment. In order to get to the end, we have to let go of everything. We must let go of religion. We must let go of beliefs.

In a full non-dual state, there is no self. There is no separation between trees or clouds or people. Everything just is.

That is my entire belief system: everything just is.

Having said that, I did start this thread and there is no point starting a thread if I'm not willing to have a discussion about the subject matter (although I was more specifically interested in non-duality in the context of breakthrough psychedelic experiences). I can attempt to answer your question but I'm not sure I fully understand it. If you break anything down sufficiently, it ceases to make sense. This is because everything is illusory and nothing does actually make sense. The entire framework that we are trained from an early age to perceive the world around is incorrect. There is nothing worth keeping.

What is an experiencer?

I used to say that God is the experiencer and that God wants to experience everything. We are all God. (It's not an original thought. I'm not taking credit. There is no credit.)

So, if we are God is there one "experiencer"? There is an illusion of multiple (infinite) experiencers... but they are all one. So, there is one.

But if there is only one, maybe there is none... because an experiencer must be relative to the absence of an experiencer and there is (probably) no such thing.

All these types of philosophical discussions about the nature of existence and God take you backwards because they are ALL wrong. Anything you can think is wrong. This is why you need to turn off your brain. Understanding doesn't come from trying to understand. If you try to relax, it is impossible. Likewise, wisdom comes to you when you stop trying to rationalize it.

Since entering into a non-dual state, I have access to large amounts of information. I find myself - in conversation - talking super fast about things I've never considered. The answers are just there. I have no memory of asking any questions because you don't need to ask any questions. You just need to listen to God.

To believe in a singular experiencer, I would have to be attached to the idea (of experiencers) and I'm not.

I pretty much don't believe in anything.

Ultimately, we should stop thinking about what life means and just be present.

I don't even like the word God anymore. I've started using female pronouns to describe God in conversation, but there is no attachment to God being female.

When discussing something ineffable, all words are inadequate by definition.

Religion - by extension - since it is rooted in language like everything else, must be discarded. That includes Christianity.

I like to say, "Jesus ain't got shit on me."

Jesus was just a man. There is no hierarchy. To elevate anyone (living or dead) above yourself is to apply limitations. You cannot become fully enlightened if you perceive your spiritual potential as less than the Pope or Buddha or Shiva or some guru.

No other man or woman is needed for this path. The path is entirely - 100% - internal. Words are external. It isn't natural to think in words. We do this because we internalize the external world because we are superficial material beings.

I know a lot of white Australians who condemn Christianity and embrace Hinduism... and I understand to some extent. Hinduism is definitely one of the most advanced religions. But, at the end of the day, it's still a religion.

Religion is taking someone else's spirituality for granted.

We can all have our own personal relationship with God. There is nothing stopping us from bypassing religion and going direct to the source, if we want to... and why wouldn't we?

My wife refuses to have bufo. She can clearly see that I've had a massive spiritual awakening and I'm full of love and I'm way more confident and articulate that I've ever been... It really confuses me. She likes religion. It feels safe, I guess, for some people to live vicariously through others.

There are numerous people I know that don't want to wake up. I have offered to pay for some of them to attend ceremonies... but they don't want to for some reason, even though they acknowledge that it will most likely massively improve their lives.

Facilitators explain it to me as the ego being afraid / threatened by divinity.

People are afraid of LSD, let alone bufo. They are afraid of their reflection. They are afraid of what they might find. They have been trained to shame themselves and live in a fear state from the moment they were born.

...

Went off on a couple of tangents, there.

Not sure if I answered your question?

 

[Pain_in_vain]

Not sure if I answered your question?

Yup:

I pretty much don't believe in anything