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Nobody has freewill.

Free will is a illusion. We are what other people wants what we are. Most counts count. And there is a link between 7 seconds and knowing.
 
Group or mass freedom as expressed as what is best for the whole?

I'm sure that is how hiveminds work..
 
Why does an event happen, and do these continuous flowing of events have to be flowing "That" way?
Can this moment be altered in anyway, so that in a way I can change the course of the entire universe. Or will, my way to change it, be predestined or maybe even happens for a reason. as in Supposed to change the course of the Universe, but actually didn't because I was SUPPOSED to.
can I do something completely different to change the outcome of the coming moment?
Is it I who is truly experincing my destiny, just by manifesting my surroundings?
Do i control this moment or is it just me, aware of my awareness, being told what to right down through whatever means.
And being told when to want to do something, when to do something, when to agree, and when to disagree.
As well as conversing, and having any interaction with the outside world.
So are all cosmic event happening for a reason? I think their's a Logical reason for why things happen precisly the way they do. InTeLiGeNt design
 
i agree, more or less.

i mentioned Gurdjieff & the Fourth Way in a thread earlier. That perspective might be: humans can possess a solid centre of personality that can think independently & act with free will - but it must be earned over time. It doesn't come with the default factory product. The human default factory product is a dream machine.

And same with having an immortal soul that can survive death. It is possible for a human, but not in our default state. That also must be earned. Generally through various yogas that whittle down the garbage of 'what we think we are' default factory state. Doing this kind of dismantling of the self while still in a human body is not all pain but not all pleasure either! :cautious:
 
KOSMICTRAVELLER said:
Why does an event happen, and do these continuous flowing of events have to be flowing "That" way?
Can this moment be altered in anyway, so that in a way I can change the course of the entire universe. Or will, my way to change it, be predestined or maybe even happens for a reason. as in Supposed to change the course of the Universe, but actually didn't because I was SUPPOSED to.
can I do something completely different to change the outcome of the coming moment?
Is it I who is truly experincing my destiny, just by manifesting my surroundings?
Do i control this moment or is it just me, aware of my awareness, being told what to right down through whatever means.
And being told when to want to do something, when to do something, when to agree, and when to disagree.
As well as conversing, and having any interaction with the outside world.
So are all cosmic event happening for a reason? I think their's a Logical reason for why things happen precisly the way they do. InTeLiGeNt design
Click to expand...

KOSMICTRAVELLER said:
can I do something completely different to change the outcome of the coming moment?
Click to expand...

Yeah, you can. An act of will that goes against the usual inertia & automatic currents in your life. The next time we have the habitual urge to do the same thing like we've done a thousand times before, if you rebel against it, then.... (i'm not so good with the interpretation..) but i'll try:

Then the courses of the universe will no doubt keep flowing, but your centre will have gained gravity/mass. Instead of flowing over me as usual while i sleep late, like i usually do, i might rise early and do something unexpected. And then the universal currents change somehow, in response to this change in my personal gravity/exercise of free will. Somehow, the universe will definitely change if i keep up that kind of thing haha

--There's a cool book by Victor Sanchez called the Teachings of Don Carlos that reminds me of the Fourth Way, because its just great applied psychology. This is from the Toltec perspective. In one part he talks about ways to strengthen the will to act by committing to arbitrary things. Like every tuesday, pack up all your dishes into your car and drive them around the block 6 times etc. It goes deeper but i guess in the context of this thread this is like overriding our usual robotic free will with competing deliberate wills. To do the right thing which is dismantling expanding the everyday habitual self. (idk about the philosophy behind it all, except that change/mutation & brekage = good)
 
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KOSMICTRAVELLER said:
In my opinion there is no consensual anything. Does that make sense? Everybody is forced to everything that they experience. Whether it be that they experience this or that. They can go to heaven or hell. Or purgatory. In either of the ways they have to be where they are. At all times. Whether good, bad, or okay. They must be exactly how they are. No matter the experience.
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If i choose to not take this next drink....or if do... what then? Do you see a possible fork in my future here?
 
KOSMICTRAVELLER said:
Predeterminism is everything that we did do we had to do. Everything that we are doing we must be doing. And everything that we will do we must do. That's the bottom line.... Now... if none of that is true then we didn't have to do what we did. And so on and so forth. Badda bing badda boom. That's it. End of discussion....
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I've been wanting to understand this perspective for a while, cos i know there's more to it. Is it the same kinda thing 'law of eternal return', anyone know?

But also, take into account that certain perspectives are always in vogue also. Perhaps predeterminism is in vogue? It doesn't make it wrong. But, as much as we like to think of ourselves as independent units of consciousness...we do get influenced by the 'currents of the now' that swirl around us like the wind.

My point is to question everything but really question something if my friends all love it too.
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
Lots of decent advise but you did not deal with my point of having to lock up dangerous people.

What you want is to change the views of the whole world, as we all do, but have no viable suggestions other than educate and elevate everyone.

You are right that we are Gods, that is my Gnostic Christian view, but few want to step up.

Regards
DL
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Well ovenbakedskittles might arrive at that question shortly :) They were proposing a platform for now.

Hopefully some of us will be able to make the case that some humans unfortunately just live to fuck shit up, and should effectively be considered quarantined forever so they cant fuck with future utopias. William Burroughs had a word or two to say about these types.
 
i believe we have free will but have been programmed to make choices that are provided only or pay the cosequences.
our creative thought processes have been stolen, hiddin, exploited, destroyed for many thousands of years.
we do need change but not sure from whence it comes.
 
6am-64-14m said:
i believe we have free will but have been programmed to make choices that are provided only or pay the cosequences.
our creative thought processes have been stolen, hiddin, exploited, destroyed for many thousands of years.
we do need change but not sure from whence it comes.
Click to expand...
Programming, by it's nature, inhibits free will.

The same applies to commands or laws that must be followed.

Who is this great thief you are talking about?

As to change.

We just collectively need a new and powerful God who will save us from ourselves.

Otherwise, things are great, till the next bust.

Regards
DL
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
It is too good to be true, but I am here.
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About time to get busy, then, yeah? I see you.
Something caught my attention on a documentary last night and I say it all the time irl: Dont believe anything.
Could it be that simple, really?
I do know that there are hills and vallys (cycles) but we are manipulating this on our planet by taking from hills and filling holes.
I do see that nature is "cruel and unusual" in its indifference but think we take this to a whole different level.
Gnostic Bishop said:
Who is this great thief you are talking about?
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I believe it to be our beloved church of christ (world dominion and all that) but reckon this was only a tool used as the snatch and grab has been going on long before chritianity came around.
Best
 
we do have free will
most just do not practice it from fear
some do cause they dont gaf (like psychos no offense i relate to some degree it is also a part of nature)
some can do what they wish cause there will ne no consequences
i would argue this point of free of will although it will take energy and time. make it worth it is all i ask.

havent read many previous posts
what is this freedom of will?
 
bam-ba-lam said:
we do have free will
most just do not practice it from fear
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It seems to me you either have it and you practice it all the time or you don't have it. I don't see how we live in a world where some people are free and other people aren't. Unless free will is something you earn...? Not sure what you're saying.

Some people are "freer" from living conventional lives and it's easier for them from an early age (because of their upbringing or whatever) to have the confidence to make choices that are atypical. That doesn't mean they have some metaphysical thing that other people don't. They're just lucky.

As society develops and becomes more self-conscious, we are becoming freer in this manner. We haven't achieved "maximum" free will if you're looking at it from that perspective. Even the free people are restricted.

It's not fear, exactly. Restrictions are good. There are restrictions all throughout nature. Absolute freedom isn't necessary. It's chaos.

I don't envy people who are freer than I am.

@6am-64-14m
 
6am-64-14m said:
I have not witnessed any at all in nature. Only in our species and these restrictions are man made.
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Man is nature, but beyond that: animals are way more restricted in terms of free will than humans.

Squirrels don't jump out of planes because:

1. The squirrel societies of the world haven't developed flight and there have been limited efforts from humans to make skydiving inclusive for Rodentia.

2. Squirrels run on a tight program that involves evading predators, gathering nuts, and being generally cute. It isn't fear that stops them from diverting from their programming. It is the programming itself.

We don't need to be completely free. I've known people who've travelled down that path and it leads to insanity. It's like chasing the meaning of life.

There aren't any shark vegans.

Free will (if it exists) is a uniquely human thing, in terms of Earth creatures.
 
bird.is.the.word said:
Man is nature, but beyond that: animals are way more restricted in terms of free will than humans.

Squirrels don't jump out of planes because:

1. The squirrel societies of the world haven't developed flight and there have been limited efforts from humans to make skydiving inclusive for Rodentia.

2. Squirrels run on a tight program that involves evading predators, gathering nuts, and being generally cute. It isn't fear that stops them from diverting from their programming. It is the programming itself.

We don't need to be completely free. I've known people who've travelled down that path and it leads to insanity. It's like chasing the meaning of life.

There aren't any shark vegans.

Free will (if it exists) is a uniquely human thing, in terms of Earth creatures.
Click to expand...
No offense but after reading a couple times just seems gobbledygook.
Nature does what it does without regard to life/death/consequences.
Fear never keeps the boogieman away only from consequences of becoming the boogieman for human (smoe).
 
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