• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

NMDA antagonists for tolerance, a collection of the evidence and anecdotal reports

Neither, actually. It was originally for amphetamine tolerance, then for fixing my downregulated catecholamine receptors after long-term amphetamine use. Now it's just for maintaining a positive and hard-working mood. I'll never have an opiate or benzo habit, insh'Allah.

NMDARAs have definitely lowered my tolerance to alcohol, caffeine, and pseudoephedrine, though, such that one beer or one 12oz coffee gives me all the effects I could possibly want.
 
Ive been off memantine for a while now, i beleive there are several other more interesting compounds out there but working on putting info togheter and testing stuff out.
 
Does anyone have any experience with same day dosage? I'm going through W/D from alcohol right now and I'm wondering if 20mg of Delsym would help or make things even worse...
 
Neramexane
130px-Neramexane.svg.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neramexane

Did anyone here get their hands on some of this? I've read that it's about to be put on the market in some countries.
Seem pretty kEwL..
 
Bump, this thread has been dying out.

Surely more ppl have tolerance issues and want to give this stuff a try:)
 
I have been meaning to post my unsuccessful DXM trail for MDMA. I used 60mg of DXM HBr twice daily for 14 days followed by a 3 day break as well as around 400mg magnesium glyinate. I then consumed 150mg of high quality MDMA followed by 75mg one hour later. I noticed no increased activity at all. no return of effects of any kind. To be fair it wasn't the best set and setting considering I had just had a fight with my GF but I still expected something more than what I got. I have tried it again since (without the DXM though) a few weeks later with the same stuff also with no success.

Do you think that the yoyoing plasma levels caused by using normal DXM rather than the polisterix could have reduced its effectiveness? They don't sell delsym down here so would perhaps using 30mg four times a day work better?

Also as I mentioned in an earlier post during this time I could not K-hole which I first contributed to the DXM however since stopping the DXM but continuing with the magnesium I noticed I still had trouble k-holing. Since stopping the magnesium k seems to work again.

On a side note during the DXM trial I noticed pretty much complete elimination of social anxiety as well as hangovers and anxiety from alcohol and anxiety from caffeine. This was maintained to some extent once stopping the DXM but nowhere near as much as when taking the DXM.
 
Magnesium will reduce plasma levels of MDMA. I have noticed this as well as my friends have noticed the same thing.

As for the tolerance - MDMA is a drug that works off of a certain amount of serotonin and dopamine being available - if they aren't there, no amount of DXM will get you where you want to go. On top of that, the reduced tolerance takes longer than 2 weeks with DXM. Memantine is a much more suitable drug, especially since you can take it WITH MDMA without any serious side effects which I assume is why you took a 3 day break from the DXM before taking the MDMA in the first place.

If you really want MDMA potentiation, I would drop the DXM and the magnesium and get either piracetam or aniracetam instead. They have a proven track record of increasing the effectiveness of MDMA and other amphetamines, base phenethylamines, tryptamines, beta-carbolines, ergolines, and many other drugs without any real negative side effects. Once again though, you have to have them in your blood when you take the drug you are trying to potentiate.
 
Interesting about magnesium reducing MDMA plasma levels. Are there any publish studies on that or just anecdotal reports? I though magnesium was a fairly common thing to take with MDMA. I didn't use magnesium on the second try though maybe by then it had been to long since the DXM. I did use NAC, alpha lipoic acid, berroca (multi B) and vitamin C as well but again only on the first try.

Other than mild social anxiety I have no signs of low dopamine or serotonin so I doubt that is what is causing this. Back when MDMA did work on me, my anxiety was much worse if anything.

I've read of others successful attempts with delsym for only 2 weeks. Though I was thinking of trying to get delsym and trying it for a month. Maybe even not take a break just not take it that night as the low levels used here probably wouldn't pose much of a threat really.

I've tried long breaks, piracetam, aniracetam, SJW, 5-HTP, and now DXM so far with no increase distinguishable from placebo. I'd like to try memantine but Aussie customs are pretty good at their job. Other than making caffeine unbearable and enabling me to remember a heavy night on the piss I didn't notice much affect of the racetams on drugs.
 
Maybe this quote I posted in the MXE megathread will be interesting here:

I've notice something strange too: MXE seems to bring my GBL euphoria back. I tried memantine and DXM to lower my tolerance to GBL (I was taking 2,8mL at the end, started at 1,5mL). With a memantine cure of 4/5 weeks I was again at 1,5mL, the physical tolerance was lowerded, but euphoria and aphrodisiacs effets weren't there. I've to think at this more and wait a bit more time to say a conclusion, but it's seems really interested!
 
I have been meaning to post my unsuccessful DXM trail for MDMA. I used 60mg of DXM HBr twice daily for 14 days followed by a 3 day break as well as around 400mg magnesium glyinate. I then consumed 150mg of high quality MDMA followed by 75mg one hour later. I noticed no increased activity at all. no return of effects of any kind. To be fair it wasn't the best set and setting considering I had just had a fight with my GF but I still expected something more than what I got. I have tried it again since (without the DXM though) a few weeks later with the same stuff also with no success.

This was my experience with DXM (robotussin) as well. No noticeable increase in MDMA's effects, if anything -- less of an effect. I took for one week, and waited 4 weeks, if I recall correctly.


On a side note during the DXM trial I noticed pretty much complete elimination of social anxiety as well as hangovers and anxiety from alcohol and anxiety from caffeine. This was maintained to some extent once stopping the DXM but nowhere near as much as when taking the DXM.

Also, I had amazing relief from social anxiety. I felt great confidence in social situations. It might be worth taking for that reason alone!

I'm interested in trying memantine, but concerned about combining it with mdma. I recall reading that some people had difficult cardiovascular side effects with the two.

I did have a recent unplanned roll that went pretty damn well. I had snorted a little K and about an hour and a half into that someone offered me some molly. Sober, I would have said nooooothankyou. But, with shields down, I ate the little capsule. An hour or so later, I felt lots of love, and a little knocked on my ass until the K wore off. And I was able to control my desire to redose. All in all a satisfactory experience.

I'd like to experiment with a sub-threshold or near threshold dose of K to potentiate mdma.
 
M Brace - nice name btw - I have used memantine and MDMA and if anything, the MDMA knocked out the memantine's hold on my lungs. Being a stimulant that shouldn't be surprising. The issue I had with memantine is I noticed marked respiratory depression once I hit the recommended 40mg marker. I did, however, test out MDMA on memantine and I noticed that I could breathe again. Well store-bought ephedrine did the same thing back when it was easy to get (ah, the primatene days).

Anyway, DXM ***HBr*** is *NOT* the form you need for long term NMDA antagonism. DXM itself is not what is needed - we want the DXO. DXO is a semi-potent NMDA antagonist but it has a short half life. When you "get fucked up" on DXM, you use the HBr version which as soon as it hits the liver it is rapidly metabolized by CYP2D6 to DXO which is then processed by the body and we have a DXM trip. If I remember correctly, DXM by itself is pretty much a SRI (serotonin reuptake inhibitor) which is why certain people low in CYP2D6 liver enzymes have extremely long trips and sometimes dangerous reactions to high dose DXM. This is also the reason that DXM, unlike the traditional NMDA antagonists like ketamine, PCP, methoxetamine, alcohol (yes its an NMDA antagonist among other things), etc - in low doses it feels quite serotonergic. Nice and fluffy. I don't know any dose of K that makes you feel like you're on a mild to moderate roll. DXM is active on its own and its activity on serotonin is much more responsible for the serotonin syndrome fear when combined with MDMA or other serotonin releasers than DXO is.

Anyway, that was really scattered... DXM ***POLISTEREX*** is what you need. The conversion factor between HBr and Polisterex is entirely different. Polisterex (ONLY available as Delsym, no generic form) is an edible plastic... its like an enteric-coated DXM molecule... the stomach slowly eats away at the plastic and sends the DXM down for absorption (and subsequent conversion) to DXO over the course of 8-12 hours (depends on metabolism like all things). This is where the magic comes in. NMDA *stays* antagonized and gives the brain a chance to recover at GABA (and probably dopamine receptors).

Now as far as MDMA goes - seriously dude, once you've lost the magic, you've lost the magic. Piracetam has been shown to bring it back but it also increases the potency of MDMA and while in my experience it lessened cardiac effects of MDMA, I have heard the opposite as well.

Now referring to DXM's ability to ameliorate anxiety, this is because N-Methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) is the "excited" part of the brain. It is what makes us react to certain situations and has been shown to trigger adrenaline release. When you have sufficiently beaten down NMDA you have done two things - one, eliminated most of the brain's causes of anxiety (AMPA plays a role in anxiety as well but the only well-known AMPA inhibitor I know of is Topamax. In my circle we call it Dope-a-max, or Stupidmax because it dulls you down THAT much) and two increased the brain's "calming" side - gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA). The balance of these two is something the brain always tries to achieve. When you consume too much glutamate or alcohol/benzos you can alter that balance drastically.

Basically all this method seeks to do is allow the brain to compensate for the loss of NMDA (due to inhibition) by producing more GABA. The flipside of the coin would result in seizures and death. If you antagonize GABA, the brain flips on the NMDA switch and we seize and eventually die from cell overactivity.

This is pretty much a crude way of tricking the brain into thinking it needs to produce more GABA.

EDIT: Shit, I forgot to add... I just started Delsym for Klonopin taper... First night... 16-17mL... I have had a few beers and one thing I always noticed with beer was my heart rate. Plagued me even when falling asleep. Now I know that taking trazodone with DXM can cause permanent liver damage so its either Remeron (which has an extremely sketchy pharmacological profile IMO) or just go to sleep on my own... well I walked to the bathroom because Delsym has an annoying "flush" effect on my bowel system the first few days... checked my pulse... normally would be about 120 or so with alcohol... yet it was around 70-80... that's my normal resting (smoker) - its obviously already doing its job... I feel pretty relaxed although my body is quite angry with me... my CNS is quite calm. Its the southern region that wants to punch me in the face. I think that the antagonism starts pretty fast... That's not to say I'm going to skip my Klonopin tomorrow... I might wait 6 hours or so but take my Delsym as normal... I'll report back on what I decide to do and see what happens. I know that normally missing it more than an hour usually puts me in rebound mode but 20mL might just do the trick.
 
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alcohol (yes its an NMDA antagonist among other things),
i recently read a study showing that the nmda antagonism of ethanol is of extremely short duration (few minutes) after which an increased opening probability of the nmda receptor channels is observed.
 
i recently read a study showing that the nmda antagonism of ethanol is of extremely short duration (few minutes) after which an increased opening probability of the nmda receptor channels is observed.

Absolutely true. This is one of the hypothesized things that contributes to alcoholism. If I remember correctly, a shot of whiskey has NMDA antagonism that lasts about 30 minutes while a shot of tequila lasts about 15. That is, of course, AFTER it has been absorbed - varies obviously.

The theory is that most alcoholics become addicted to the "calm" - they chase after it and as their BAC rises, different parts of the brain are affected until they turn into a mess. Been there, done that. Got the probation to prove it! =/
 
Okay... NMDA antagonism SUCKS when you are first starting it and trying to get drunk! I've drank 18 beers and I don't feel much more than the actual DXM... >_< Guess that means its already working though.

Oh, my pulse is 62... normal resting is about 80-90 usually. Something is going on for sure. Sucks I can't take trazodone though because I haven't slept yet and would like to!

Well... alcohol buzz is there... but totally different... I didn't feel it til just now but its like DXM lite... I'm freezing like I would if I was tripping DXM but my coordination is shot and I am getting double vision. I took my dose at 12 and its 9 now... maybe there is an amphetamine-like corolation with DXM and drinking where you suddenly come down and get drunk?
 
Okay so long story short - when I hit noon, I was fucking balls to the wall smashed.

I forgot to take my scheduled Klonopin dose... I'm up 4 1/2 hours later with rebound anxiety... took the pill with 15ishmL of Delsym and I know it takes exactly 1 hr 20-25 minutes for Klonopin to hit me. Delsym hit first. I went from full blown panic mode to zero in no time flat. (20 minutes or so after taking the large Delsym dose).

Has anyone ever explored low dose ER DXM as a possible anti-anxiety agent much like ketamine does for depression?
 
I really need some ideas what is going on with my memantine use... After I followed the whole thread, I got really interested to try memantine for my NDRI tolerance (methylphenidate, ethylphenidate, buphedrone). The first day after I stopped buphedrone and started memantine (10mg) I felt really clear headed, being in a good mood the whole day. The same happened the second day. The third day I had to up to 20mg for the same positive feeling (dopamine agonism?). After a week in 20mg I thought to try a little buphedrone, being courious to see if memantine made any difference for my tolerance. Here is what happened that I find puzzling.

For maybe a good half hour after consumption, I got a very unusual euphoric feeling. Not quite what I am used with buphedrone, seemed more euphoric but not in a "well rounded" way, something was missing from the first few times I got a good stimulant effect from buphedrone (I mainly use it as a functional stimulant to get stuff done). After that the whole thing went quite bad really dysphoric, stressed and almost sick. The exact same thing happened with 50mg ethylphenidate the following day. Memantine is good (but subtle) on its own, but its getting dysphoric with the stimulants I mentioned, any ideas what is going on? Is it too soon to add the stimulants with memantine?
 
This was my experience with DXM (robotussin) as well. No noticeable increase in MDMA's effects, if anything -- less of an effect. I took for one week, and waited 4 weeks, if I recall correctly.
Also, I had amazing relief from social anxiety. I felt great confidence in social situations. It might be worth taking for that reason alone!

well dont forget that DXM is a weak SSRI alone, so taking it over week is the same like taking a low dose SSRI, maybe a other SSRI could also help you with you problems!

I could also imagine that the tolerance lowering with MDMA doenst work because of this SSRI property as the drug on the one hand maybe reduces tolerance but on the other also stimulates the serotonine receptor and so the effect is zero in the end (but it should work on dopamine and norephenidirne-->amphetamine and coffein which was reported quite often now)
 
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I've been on relatively low does of kpin (.5/day) for about 4 or 5 years now for sleep/anxiety issues. I wish I had never got on it, but c'est la vie. Within the past month I seem to have found myself in some sort of "tolerance withdrawal" hell of intermittent panic, tinnitus, burning skin, chills and sweats, etc. I'd like to avoid playing the chase the tolerance with upping the dose game, in fact I want to taper off. Interested in these reports of memantine and DXM being useful for up-regulating GABA receptors. Could possibly get rid of this tolerance withdrawal or allow an easier taper??

My only concern is that I am also on Zoloft for 5+ years for depression (am now tapering to Vibryyd, essentially an SSRI with a little extra 5HT1A agonism - may explain the side effects some people are getting on high doses of "trippiness")

I don't think a low dose of DXM is particularly worrisome for serotonin syndrome, others may disagree, would adding in, say a normal therapeutic dose of DXM and moving upwards to see if it reverses any of these symptoms (tinnitus especially) be an alright course of action. Memantine sounds more promising, but would have to scope a source.
 
well some doctors would maybe even give you a prescription if you argue well for what you want it (but depends very much on the person).

For DXM and SSRI: I also think that it is not too risky to start with 20mg, a serotonin syndrom does not start with nearly dying, you will get headache and other symptoms way before it really gets bad. Also DXM has a relatively short half life (compared to "real" SSRI's) so you could easily stop taking it when you get the first possible symptoms.
 
Unfortunately, while I have a pdoc that treates me like an adult and we have interesting conversations, I don't think she will support off label use of a drug like memantine for benzo taper. She still thinks that I should be able to taper in a couple weeks tops since .5 is such a low dose, despite all the reams of evidence to the contrary. I will see how DXM works, at least for taking away these new tolerance withdrawal symptoms and write up a report somewhere.
 
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