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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Nitrous and oxygen levels (personal research)

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SpiralusSancti

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Feb 2, 2023
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Well as I promised I got oxymeter and proceeded to test how N2O affects oxygen blood levels. And even it’s cheapish oxymeter (and supposedly they get less reliable at lower levels) I don’t like the results. I also kind of confirmed to myself that at least part of effects are due to oxygen deprivation. Big question how much of the damage is cuz of same? My personal (and I bet quite a few of you too) very big question is did I (seriously) fucked up by using A LOT of nitrous at one point… I feel like nitrous did me more good than harm but that might be a delusion or I’m yet to feel harm in my older days.

So about results and “research”. I used whippets. I inhaled them from whipped cream bottle. Worth noting is that it’s for 1 whippet so if I had one where I can load 2 – 3 I might get even lower record. So lower I measured was just below 60%. It was while I was not watching out to inhale a lot in-between hits as I usually do. On occasion where I used them more or less like I would normally, levels often fell between 65 – 75% as a minimum. But good thing, and making this info a bit less scary is that levels jump back to normal very fast, even after a few lungfuls of air you get to about 90%, few more and it’s 95+%. The way oxygen levels go up and down makes me wonder. Levels do not drop in a way you are just holding your breath, they go waaaaaay faster and waaaaaaaay more (holding breath for minutes would not lower it so much!!!).

So what is it? Nitrous displacing oxygen? Oxymeter getting confused by high nitrous levels?

In any case I’m not sure about implications of this but if oxymeter showed remotely correct results I know I had days where my oxygen levels were dangerously levels for quite a bit.
 
SpiralusSancti said:
On occasion where I used them more or less like I would normally, levels often fell between 65 – 75% as a minimum. But good thing, and making this info a bit less scary is that levels jump back to normal very fast, even after a few lungfuls of air you get to about 90%, few more and it’s 95+%. The way oxygen levels go up and down makes me wonder. Levels do not drop in a way you are just holding your breath, they go waaaaaay faster and waaaaaaaay more (holding breath for minutes would not lower it so much!!!).
Click to expand...

What you are describing here is the product of what's known as the "second gas effect". It's a period of fairly severe but rapidly resolving hypoxia. Essentially, being a water soluble gas, with extended use nitrous oxide concentrations will build up in the blood stream. When you stop administering the gas, nitrous oxide that has built up in the blood steam will exit through the alveoli, impairing their ability to absorb incoming oxygen. This is known as diffusion hypoxia (or perhaps more accurately diffusion hypoxemia?). This phenomenon can also interfere with alveolar absorption of things other than oxygen, like volatile anesthetic agents, as described here:

pubs.asahq.org

Nitrous Oxide Diffusion and the Second Gas Effect on Emergence from Anesthesia

Background. Rapid elimination of nitrous oxide from the lungs at the end of inhalational anesthesia dilutes alveolar oxygen, producing
pubs.asahq.org pubs.asahq.org

In any event, the implications from this, in terms of long-term damage (in the context of nitrous oxide abuse) are unclear. Certainly not a good thing to be putting yourself in a hypoxemic state on a regular basis. Years ago, for around 8 or so months I was averaging 50 nitrous oxide chargers per day. It's unclear what damage that did to me exactly, but one could surmise that it definitely wasn't good for me 😅. Worth noting that I used all that nitrous oxide as a healthy non-tobacco smoking young male in my 20's, with healthy lung function. Someone who is say 45 years of age with a history of tobacco use might not have the same outcome.
 
I decided from now to limit my use on smaller amounts only (and/or do it mixed when oxygen when I get a chance). Like 10 – 25 don’t add up to a lot of minutes in hypoxic state but doing hundreds might become seriously damaging. All in all I still hope nitrous messing with b12 is our biggest problem.

I feel really stupid for not knowing what you linked but for since I remember believing b12 levels are main problem with nitrous. And since ever remembering, “if your oxygen levels get dangerously low you’ll just pass out”…. And I’m pretty sure few times nitrous knocked me out it was in fact cuz of anaesthetic effects and not lack of oxygen (or at least not purely cuz of that).

All this made me even more convinced that ETHER is the way...lol. It is what it is :D
 
It would be interesting to plot the O2 levels on a graph to see the total time you spend below 90-85% during a session. Though it might be a hassle to write down each measurement if you don’t have a smartwatch or an oximeter that can connect to an app.

Everytime I've done nitrous has been in a medical setting, so a 50/50 N2O/O2 mix, amazing experience btw.
 
Well actually not a such hassle with bit of help and I will do that too definitely when I get an opportunity. Oximeter I have does not have that function, only shows current level and I checked it pretty often but was definitely too high to note it properly (at least with enjoyment). But even it won’t be such a hassle for someone to note levels 2 – 3 times a minute what will be, being high as fuck, even having oximeter whole trip on my finger (will come back to that) and wondering in the back of my mind along typical nitrous experience how much damage I do to myself in a such a way.

On a first occasion I tested levels I got, I think, about 60 - 70 whippets (and I have done hundreds at once on occasions during phase about as long as @negrogesics had but I didn’t do it every day but on days I did I usually did a shitload) I thought well what the fuck I’ll push it deliberately. I tripped out of my mind a few times during that time. That phase when you’re entering more and more complex and sometimes even visual (and other things not that common with nitrous) but also confusing and amnesic territory (guess that component is less pronounced mixed with O2 as one other member suggested it to me for a “cleaner” high). So I was basically at one point (at least felt so) healing, getting synchronicites, figuring out “vibe” of a place and people where I was. in one moment, and in other checked out levels and was thinking damnnnnnnnn 58%!!!

On other occasion I used oximeter I had a bit less, about 50, but damn, oximeter was a lot more in my focus than and as important I had more weed, booze, memantine and possibly a bit of tramadol or bupe in my system. And I had a few, well I’m not sure how to describe it better than out of mind and out of body (but not real OBE) moments. Like drifting out for a moment or a few than snapping back, far from baseline but to some baseline of that nitrous trip. But what kind of messed with me were few moment where oximeter became (very) important part of trip, and in one moment, in my sofa I twitched and had a sort of flashback from being in hospital and figure out it was cuz I was feeling it on my finger. On others I had insights how of all, loads and loads of loads of different drugs I took it seems once that are fucked me up the most were almost always legal….or all legal. I also started to notice signs of hypoxia (all too familiar to me even I try to breath enough air between hits), like tingling in fingers, slight weird feeling in lips etc. Suddenly nitrous felt more like a legal poison left to us in a dog give a bone manner, just like booze, even with it’s profound effects. It felt like poison more in a concept sense (but is that really all?) than because of impairment I could feel from it if that has sense.

I’ll write more on my stance and experience with nitrous. Mostly about how my experience came from, nitrous is fun and wonderful in combos but nothing to really write about when used alone to, omfg I can trip on nitrous alone just as hard or harder than on most stuff if used in a certain manner and with a just a lil bit of help from other substance but that can be even just a few beers or even god damned CBD weed.
 
I believe it confuses the meter. I mean if anyone's had pneumonia when u get to like 85% ure really gasping. I think consciousness is normally lost around the 70% mark. But remember your vein oxygen isn't the same as your arterial oxygen which is what your actually using. So even if u are temporarily dropping to 50% the arterial oxygen wouldn't be as quick to drop to those levels unless it's maintained long enough. I think that can only be tested a blood test tho

Take care. Gl
 
Competitive divers drop oxygen levels significantly below 70% and yet they don’t pass out. Also any level below 95% for any prolonged time is really bad for you, below 85% it’s becoming really dangerous. So don’t confuse to how low it falls for less than a few minutes and when brain runs out of oxygen for minutes as than possibly permanent brain damage and death occur. There are cases of people who died in 3 – 4 minutes of brain being deprived of oxygen but also people who after few times that seem to not suffered any real damage. Would be cool to know other parameters beside temperature that influence that outcome.

As for other thing, I too assumed that peripheral levels ain’t same as system-wide levels and that’s obvious trough that that even levels stay about the same you get more and more intoxicated. But pulse oximeter is still good enough to indicate things even in hospital so I’m not really sure that results are to be dismissed. Person who measures below 95% will get oxygen soon and those with 5 – 10% less than that will be rushed to all needed treatments.
 
I mean more intoxicated but also having more side-effects that point out to oxygen deprivation. Thing is that doesn’t mean for sure system-wide levels are really significantly different than measured by pulse oximeter but might also just be because of more time spent at or below some level. You ever saw blue lips on someone doing nitrous? I saw that even when people hit just a few balloons, one after other while holding in breath a bit longer or not inhaling fresh air in-between. Also getting dizzy along high. Or even people almost passing out after just one balloon (I guess that’s mainly to do with direct effects of nitrous too but with things in study @negrogesic linked it should/might have to do with oxygen levels too). I think you kind of get tolerance to that too.
 
I guess I may be an abuser of nitrous. My wife and I consume 1200 a month or so, usually in a 600 cart binge over 5 or 6 hours. We both add oxygen to the mix tho and hypoxia is not part of the experience. In fact I have found just hitting pure oxygen after a cart will prolong the high. I drilled and tapped a 1/8" NPT hole in the bottom of my soda bottle and feed oxygen in there at 15PSI. The cart takes that up to about 70. Feeding back through a good filter buffers it so it is not a sudden rush of high pressure gas.
rig%202023-e.JPG
 
Gary White said:
I guess I may be an abuser of nitrous. My wife and I consume 1200 a month or so, usually in a 600 cart binge over 5 or 6 hours. We both add oxygen to the mix tho and hypoxia is not part of the experience. In fact I have found just hitting pure oxygen after a cart will prolong the high. I drilled and tapped a 1/8" NPT hole in the bottom of my soda bottle and feed oxygen in there at 15PSI. The cart takes that up to about 70. Feeding back through a good filter buffers it so it is not a sudden rush of high pressure gas.
rig%202023-e.JPG
Click to expand...
Would be cool to have that. For like a few days and than a long rest.

Half an hour or an hour exposure every 2 weeks is tested as a treatment for depression and you can bet they pushed for an upper limit of safety. And that within a time-frame the testing passes and it’s granted a permission, what are consequences after 10 or 20 years of such treatment ain’t their problem for now.

Nitrous is one of safest anesthetics, when used as such. As for recreational use that’s another thing and abuse yet another.
 
SpiralusSancti said:
Would be cool to have that. For like a few days and than a long rest.

Half an hour or an hour exposure every 2 weeks is tested as a treatment for depression and you can bet they pushed for an upper limit of safety. And that within a time-frame the testing passes and it’s granted a permission, what are consequences after 10 or 20 years of such treatment ain’t their problem for now.

Nitrous is one of safest anesthetics, when used as such. As for recreational use that’s another thing and abuse yet another.
Click to expand...

Ironic in a group where they talk about fentanyl, heroin, designer drugs nobody is sure what really contain and huffing solvents.
 
Gary White said:
Ironic in a group where they talk about fentanyl, heroin, designer drugs nobody is sure what really contain and huffing solvents.
Click to expand...
I see it as a group of people that tests their drugs a lot more often than an average user, a group of people where many rather wont do opiates at all than to do fent and a group of people that doesn’t have a hard time accepting that heroin use is less damaging to the brain than nitrous abuse.

Btw. I would chose Ether over nitrous any day, but that’s my preference and I don’t push it to anyone. Fact that it’s often used as a solvent makes it bad? You do know nitrous is pretty good as solvent too and calling it a solvent isn’t any more wrong or right than calling nitrous a solvent. Now you do.
 
Gary White said:
I think too many people conflate nitrous and hypoxia.
Click to expand...
And you might not be wrong. That’s why I really opened this thread. But nitrous itself ain’t nearly as safe as most users wish it to be, same with just about any legalish drug be it DXM, dramine, tropanes or booze.

I figured out I can np lower my O2 levels by holding breath to about 85% and I’ll be able to push it much more with getting back to diving over next several years. I’ve seen a study how some girl divers got it to 60% or something when holding breath for 4 – 5mins, can only imagine how love is it for true records. And you know what, doing so quite often has consequences but to think diving is worse for you than nitrous is you know, bs.

I’ve noticed head rush one levels fall to about 80%, from nitrous, and when it hits back 95%+. Sure I’m damaging myself more without mixing it with O2, just how much and how much you negate it with regular use, we’re far from knowing that but I’m sad I can’t just get Ether instead nitrous, much stronger and deeper stuff ime.
 
O yeah, on numerous occasions I freedived/snorkelled in a way that while session was over my lips were blue. That was combination of both hypoxia and cold. I did that as a child a lot, sometimes every day for weeks. Last summer I returned a bit to that. And diving for an half an hour in an ice cold water being a lot of that under water, or when water was not ice cold diving in a such a way for even much longer. Physical and mental benefits of that are hugely bigger than any potential harm. I also noticed that nitrous and holding breath while doing it (not a lot and not often) helped me to speed up regaining some of my PBs I had prior to destroying my lungs etc. I also noticed divers high was more pronounced when I would go diving post nitrous use. Depths and lengths I can dive are nothing impressive in terms of competitive freediving or even compared to very good results for those growing up by the sea, but are still pretty good given how little practice I get in fact. Achieving some good results in freediving is one of my non-drug life goals. I’ll be sure to measure my levels post diving session too.

I also need to add that oximeter I have is in fact approved for use in clinical setting so I doubt results are seriously off. But if I knew it doesn’t have option to record results over time I would have invested into more expensive, this will have to do for now.

Things I also checked out is how much nitrous is left after each inhale from the same balloon. Even second inhale results in a much slower decrease in O2 level but still significant. Also inhaling directly from bottle seems to speed up absorption even more, which makes sense given pressure it builds up in the lungs, but I’ll have to check out that.

I also established that in a – chase that mountain high – session, as in when you get into nitrous mode and try to stay or increase that high it seems that it ain’t hard at all to have O2 levels at dangerously low levels most of the time with just occasional spikes to normal. Now it’s a question after how long levels of light to mild hypoxia become dangerous? I fear that is very different for different individuals as can be seen in non-fatal ODs that result in brain being without O2, some get lasting noticeable damage while some seem to suffer none.

Also nitrous tripping with an oximeter adds interesting dimension to it. Witnessing level of self-harm in the name of, I wont say science (it’s a disgrace that with so widely abused drug I and some guy on erowid are for now sources about this problematic) but in the name of a world wide drug family is, well, something. Realizing that possibly just like booze or some other legal and legalish drugs this stuff might be harming me/us more than “proper dangerous hard drugs”. Or now in EU illegal/controlled Ether and other NMDA antagonists/anesthetics. Ethen being especially interesting. Chloroform too in terms of experience but that’s another beast both in terms of possible damage and unpredictability cuz of amnesic and other not so good properties.

To be continued..
 
Ok reported live before I pass out. I can’t get nowhere as low levels as before but I’ve been gliding 75 - 90% with spikes over 95%. I can inhale and lower O2 level and hold nitrous and spike it back up so I think even mix with O2 would produce this, somewhat at least for moments. Damn… Wont ever touch this shit in the way I did
 
Usual levels are 95 – 99, but that’s without pure O2 so sorry if it seems like I’m attacking you
 
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