NEW on microdosing psilocybin, post Fadiman study report

[paisleygeisha]

The last discussion I could find about this topic was before the release of the Fadiman microdosing study.

I'm familiar with Fadiman's protocol as well as the results announced at MAPS 2017 and recently published, and recommend watching that on youtube to anyone considering microdosing- why reinvent the wheel? I have read arguments elsewhere against microdosing specifically psilocybin daily. Mostly, these seem like conjecture. I think Fadiman (bless him!!!) wanted everyone participating to do the same protocol because if everyone was doing a different protocol it would make the study much less effective, and likely there were reasons why the protocol was set at every third day. However there is no reason to assume that all substances taken daily will lead to a tolerance problem. People take herbs, coffee, antidepressants, etc., daily, and some medicinal herbs are taken more than once a day.

Perhaps LSD (the most popular substance used for microdosing) and psilocybin are different; perhaps the tolerance occurs with LSD and not with psilocybin (but Fadiman did need to standardize the trial). "Because you want to be able to compare how you feel on your "straight days", as one microdoser posited, doesn't sound like an argument against taking it daily. That sounds like a matter of taste, goals and opinion. You can always take a day off at some point to compare, whenever you want. In general, in microdosing psilocybin, I feel more easy-going, and I haven't been very easy-going of late so this was a VERY welcome change. Why wouldn't I want to have a better day every day?


Is there anyone who knows of a solid reason not to microdose (specifically) psilocybin daily? Someone who either A) knows for sure that the body definitely develops a tolerance to psilocybin or B) has tried microdosing psilocybin personally and had some other unsatisfactory result as compared to the every third day regimen? Anyone tried microdosing Psilocybin daily?

A lot of folks on forums talk about "microdosing" when they are feeling effects beyond something in the "normal, non-altered state mood" range. That's not microdosing. If you go to youtube and search for "Fadiman Maps Microdosing 2017" you can see the preliminary results of this amazing study!

I have anxiety and depression, not severe. It does not increase my anxiety and usually seems to give me "a better day". I started with one tenth of an active dose; an active dose being about 3.5 grams. That was too much; I was reeling. I'm not able to weigh it because mine is in chocolate but now I take approx. 1/20th of the 3.5 gram active dose. In keeping with the site rules, FYI, I live somewhere that the mushrooms are not illegal.


Thanks a lot for anyone's input!

 

[mr peabody]

A few reports I came across...

Shrooms in microdoses are incredible. Most notably, I get very relaxed, yawn a lot, and am just overall happy. I personally get more sociable on shrooms, some people feel the opposite.
I also suffer from social anxiety, and in that sense, shrooms helps me a great deal at feeling less anxious. Especially when you're around people who get it.

LSD in microdosing is also incredible, most notably a heightened sense of awareness and connectedness feeling, great for clubs. However, I feel with LSD microdosing, body load is a lot
heavier than on shrooms, whereas in regular doses, shrooms have more of a body load than LSD.

-timeddilation (Reddit)

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I'd say it's a safer bet to do about 10ug of LSD as opposed to shrooms.. (as different shrooms have different potencies.) My personal experiences with it were quite incredible, although I microdosed each substance for a week each. I'd have to say the more pleasurable of the two, for me, was LSD. I felt that the shrooms made me feel a little bit nauseous at times, whilst
with LSD I never had that problem.

-th3r34p3r (Reddit)

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Having tried 4-AcO-DMT and mushrooms, I don't find 4-AcO-DMT anything like a mushroom trip. 4-AcO-DMT has DMT-esque visuals and is very clear headed... whereas mushrooms are a
total mindfuck. I've microdosed 4-AcO-DMT before with good results.

-piracetam (BL)

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Many say that psilocybin is more anxiety-prone than LSD (I've experienced that), and that 4-AcO-DMT is an all-around cleaner, clearer trip than psilocybin. And maybe have a look here:

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/823178-LSD-microdosing

 

[paisleygeisha]

Thanks Mr Peabody!

It sounds to me like people are doing more than a true "microdose", at least by Fadiman's definition (If you feel the substance, you've done too much.) It's more of "i noticed a had a better day".

Super interesting study.

Would love to know about the "tolerance" question and if there are actual reasons NOT to do Psilocybin microdosing every day. Taken over a period of months rater than a week or something, I might have to be the guinea pig for that.

But so nice of you to research for me

It seems like there is a way to say vote this up and thumbs up or some such way of saying thank you. (I'm new at this.) I tried to do something like that, tapped something, and might have "reported you"! Egad! I hope not!

Anyway, thanks!

 

[mr peabody]

You're very kind, thank you.

The short answer is, real evidence is thin. I would say read continuously, as much as you can. Here are a few more reports :

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There is a heart risk associated with serotinergic drugs because they activate the 5HT-2B receptor. When this receptor is activated repeatedly, it can cause defects in your heart valves.
Since LSD and psilocybin activate this receptor, it's possible that taking them every day will cause some defects in your heart in the long term.

We don't really know what dose/frequency of LSD/psilocybin is required to activate the receptor enough to actually cause a heart risk. It's probably safe to microdose as long as you don't
do it every day, and maybe take a few weeks' break every now and then.

-RJPatrick (Reddit)

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The long term risk is possible heart valve damage. Common psychedelics are 5HT2B agonists. Drugs that stimulate this receptor can cause heart valve problems. This has never been seen
with psychedelics like LSD and psilocybin/psilocin, although until recently no one has ever used these drugs daily. So that is currently a big unknown.

MBaggott (Reddit)

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The question remains for many people: Is microdosing safe? Fadiman confidently answers, “Yes.” He notes that the practice may not work well for some people dealing primarily with anxiety. The only other negative symptoms he says that have been reported have been some abdominal upset issues from psilocybin mushrooms.

Fadiman points out that Albert Hofmann, the Swiss chemist who discovered LSD, was microdosing the substance for the last decades of his life, and he lived until 102. Nonetheless, without proper scientific research, there are reasons to be hesitant.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/the-benefits-risks-with-microdosing#8

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And, you should probably figure these general guidelines into your considerations:

Do not use psychedelics if you suffer from or are prone to mental illness.

Psychedelics may interact with other medications.

Psychedelics have physiological effects.

People diagnosed in the past or present with a psychotic disorder, or people with biological parents or siblings diagnosed with a psychotic disorder should not take psychedelics, including LSD, psilocybin, DMT or LSA. Psychotic disorders include schizophrenia, delusional disorder, affective (mood-related) psychosis and others. Psychedelics may exacerbate symptoms of psychosis or trigger psychosis in people who were psychotic in the past, or with immediate family members who were or are psychotic.

Taking psychedelics during or immediately after a period of emotional upheaval, such as a relationship breakup or the death of a loved one, can easily intensify negative emotions, even to an extent that feels “out of control.”

Psychedelics should only be taken when one feels confident and secure in his or her ability to handle a psychedelic experience and is confident in the stability of one’s mind set.

Psychedelics and some of the chemicals found in natural substances containing psychedelics can cause miscarriage. Do not take psychedelics if you are pregnant or think you might be pregnant.

Use of some psychedelics is known to increase heart rate and blood pressure, so consult with your doctor if you suffer any conditions that would be negatively affected by this.

Reynaud’s syndrome (cold-triggered reduction or loss of circulation in fingers and toes) will be made worse by taking a vasoconstrictor, and psychedelics are vasoconstrictors.

People taking lithium should not use psychedelics. Anecdotal reports suggest lithium can greatly increase the psychoactive effects of psychedelics and that it can produce very unpleasant feelings, or even symptoms similar to epileptic seizures.

Tricyclic antidepressants, such as Trofanil (imipramine), Anafranil (clomipramine) and others, and MAOIs taken along with psychedelics, may greatly intensify the psychoactive effects.

People with serious liver problems should avoid psilocybin mushrooms as some might have compounds that could affect the liver.

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Great to have you with us.

 

[paisleygeisha]

Hi -

Thanks again for your input. Now I'd like to hear from those who:

are very familiar with the Fadiman study
or who know the pharmacology of psilocybin (SPECIFICALLY) in relation to tolerance
or folks who have personal knowledge of microdosing as defined by Fadiman (not just taking lower doses of psychedelics) - over a period of at least six continuous weeks.

Here are the questions:

Is there anyone who knows of a solid reason not to microdose (specifically) psilocybin daily?

Someone who either

A) knows for sure that the body definitely develops a tolerance to psilocybin or,

B) has tried microdosing psilocybin *personally* and had some unsatisfactory result from microdosing it daily (as compared to the every third day regimen)?

C) Anyone out there tried (or who personally knows someone well who has tried) microdosing Psilocybin daily or nearly daily for more than 6 weeks?


I prefer no quotes from unknown authors with unspecified qualification found on other boards or warnings about the dangers of microdosing unless from first hand experience or from a qualified expert, etc- thanks!