• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

new ketones based alcohol, no ethanol, is this for real!?

1, 3 Butanediol

interesting, does it metabolize into BHB (β-Hydroxybutyric acid)? Had a family member taking BHB as a diet pill
 
1, 3 Butanediol

interesting, does it metabolize into BHB (β-Hydroxybutyric acid)? Had a family member taking BHB as a diet pill

did it work as diet pill? i doubt its magic. obviously you have to put the work of moving your fat ass. ive tried dozen of "magical" shit with no magical results. then i found out "oh, calories are burned by moving" damn, what an amazing discovery!

but anyway. this is different i think. its not about any magical testaments of cures of anything. its just different type of alcohol. not ethanol, not making you hungry when drunk? or giving you the same amount of empty calories?? cmon, sounds too good to be true. why is this just coming now anyway
 
did it work as diet pill? i doubt its magic. obviously you have to put the work of moving your fat ass. ive tried dozen of "magical" shit with no magical results. then i found out "oh, calories are burned by moving" damn, what an amazing discovery!

but anyway. this is different i think. its not about any magical testaments of cures of anything. its just different type of alcohol. not ethanol, not making you hungry when drunk? or giving you the same amount of empty calories?? cmon, sounds too good to be true. why is this just coming now anyway

Isn't this "a new version of alcohol" in the same way as GHB and similar?

They could have made that flashy product with GHB if that was legal, no?

Also, looking at wikipedia it seems that this 1,3-butane diol is not a ketone, unlike GHB which is a ketone. Are they just throwing in the word keto because keto diet is hip and because they looked for a legal GHB alternative? Maybe i'm missing something here but this feels like something worth pointing out for the sake of discussion at least.
 
so if its not a ketone, why are they claiming it is? what is it by the way?
ive never had GHB considering it is illegal but ive heard its also dangerious substance, no? i wonder what effects do you get, similar to alcohol at least?

anyway, if someone else is interested im ordering a sample pack from the site. if others do, lets make a review on here, thanks!
 
I was interested in this at first because I love 1,4-butanediol because it's metabolized into GHB.

After reading about BHB (which this would be a prodrug of) I doubt it's worth it. The wiki article mentions nothing about the GABA receptors or intoxication in regards to BHB.
 
so if its not a ketone, why are they claiming it is? what is it by the way?
ive never had GHB considering it is illegal but ive heard its also dangerious substance, no? i wonder what effects do you get, similar to alcohol at least?

anyway, if someone else is interested im ordering a sample pack from the site. if others do, lets make a review on here, thanks!

To be fair it seems to metabolize into a ketone, like Snafu pointed out. Most compounds can be classified in multiple ways. 1,3-butane diol is an alcohol, among other things probably. "Diol" means "double alcohol" i.e 2 OH groups. Many many compounds are alcohols, for instance the cannabinoids from cannabis (for instance CBD, cannabidiol, is also a diol). Many many compounds are also ketones, like cathinone stimulant drugs for instance.

I'm no expert on GHB, never tried it, but pretty sure it is milder tha ethanol in terms of side effects and toxicity. Problem is the potency leading to overdose more easily than ethanol, iirc.

I'd be interested in reports but for now this seems like a bit of a gimmick and i'd rather just drink less regular alcohol than use this replacement.
 
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did it work as diet pill? i doubt its magic. obviously you have to put the work of moving your fat ass. ive tried dozen of "magical" shit with no magical results. then i found out "oh, calories are burned by moving" damn, what an amazing discovery!
I don't think they even ended up taking it, just one of those impulsive buys they made. They brought it to me asking if it was safe to take.

I had actually never heard of BHB before at that time, but from what I learned taking BHB is supposed to somehow mimic being on a keto diet in some way.

I'd be interested in reports but for now this seems like a bit of a gimmick and i'd rather just drink less regular alcohol than use this replacement.
Agreed, looks like one of those trendy frivolous "health" products that likely does very little of anything.

Labeling it "ethanol-free alcohol" and "HARD KETONES" is really stupid even though it's technically true in some sense. Implies it gets you high, but this certainly won't do that.

plus the label looks like fucking Four Loko or some shit... cringe
 
wow so many negative views on this. maybe thats why it hasnt caught up in the market and its sold nowhere.
but anyway, im desperately looking for altenarnatives to alcohol. and if you guys cannot help and bring me some suggestions, i have no choice but to go after this. :/

already ordered sampler btw. will see how it goes.
but seriously, instead of being so critical, try to help out a fucka out here, bring me alternatives! thanks. or just stfu :)
 
1,3-butanediol is apparently intoxicating in a similar dose range as ethanol.

The study from 1981 that Allone posted did a pretty good job at comparing it to ethanol in rats in the context of many different traits (sedation, withdrawals, rewardingness, signaling protein intensity levels). It seems pretty close to ethanol broadly.

What I don't know is the safety of its metabolism. It could be safer or more toxic than ethanol, and for a drug as weak as ethanol, it is best to have a safe metabolites because you will be exposed to high doses of them.

Finally even after all that uncertainty you deem it a better drug than ethanol, it would be mad to buy those poncey drinks where they use science words like they are Ed Hardy tattoos, when you could just get pure 1,3-butanediol and does precisely.


Bigups Allone on citing that 1,3bdo pubmed source.
 
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i already ordered em. but interesting, maybe just buy pure 1,3-butanediol and mix it myself? i wonder if this type of alcohol shows on the DUI test
 
The confusion here is due to the fact that the "ketone" being referred to is beta-hydroxybutyric acid, a metabolite of 1,3-butanediol. This compound is not actually a ketone but is considered a "ketone body" nonetheless as it is involved in ketosis along with its oxidized form, acetoacetic acid. There does seem to be a real ketogenic effect from 1,3-butanediol.

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Physiologic, Metabolic, and Toxicologic Profile of 1,3-Butanediol
Cameron G. McCarthy, Emily W. Waigi, Gagandeep Singh, Thaddaeus R. Castaneda, Blair Mell, Saroj Chakraborty, Camilla F. Wenceslau and Bina Joe (Center for Hypertension & Personalized Medicine, Department of Physiology & Pharmacology, University of Toledo College of Medicine and Life Sciences, Toledo, United States)
Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics 2021, Volume 379, Issue 3, pages 245-252
https://doi.org/10.1124/jpet.121.000796

Ketone bodies are essential energy substrates in the absence of exogenous nutrients, and more recently, they have been suggested to prevent disease and improve longevity. β-hydroxybutyrate (βHB) is the most abundant ketone body. The secondary alcohol, 1,3-butanediol (1,3-BD), is commonly administered to raise βHB bioavailability in vivo and in the absence of nutrient deprivation. However, the concentration of 1,3-BD that yields a systemic concentration of βHB similar to that observed after a 24-hour fast has yet to be determined. To evaluate this knowledge gap, we administered 5%, 10%, or 20% 1,3-BD via the drinking water to adult, male Wistar-Kyoto rats for four weeks. In addition to systemic and excreted βHB concentration, physiologic, metabolic, and toxicologic parameters were measured. We report that only 20% 1,3-BD significantly elevates the systemic and urinary concentrations of βHB. Rats treated with 20% 1,3-BD had a rapid and sustained reduction in body mass. All concentrations of 1,3-BD decreased food consumption, but only the 20% concentration decreased fluid consumption. Urine volume, red blood cell count, and hematocrit suggested dehydration in the 10% and 20% 1,3-BD–treated rats. Finally, 20% 1,3-BD–treated rats presented with indicators of metabolic acidosis and sinusoidal dilation, but no evidence of fatty liver or hepatotoxicity. In summary, we report that 20% 1,3-BD, but not 5% or 10%, produces a systemic concentration of βHB similar to that observed after a 24-hour fast. However, this concentration is associated with deleterious side effects such as body mass loss, dehydration, metabolic acidosis, and sinusoidal dilation.
 
i already ordered em. but interesting, maybe just buy pure 1,3-butanediol and mix it myself? i wonder if this type of alcohol shows on the DUI test
Probably would via a chromate cell test. The primary and secondary alcohols can get oxidized. It is only tert alcohols that get missed by breatholyzers.
 
1,3-butanediol does nothing, a friend bought it because he didn’t look properly, it gets metabolized into beta-hydroxy butanoic acid.
 
Quite a few alcohols have a similar effect to ethanol, some being much more potent. The problem is that they taste AWFUL. Yes, people have made 1,4-butanediol which is oxidised in vivo into GHB but apparently that also tastes awful.

Pyeyzolam doesn't really taste of anything but I dissolve 1g into 1L of dH2O and a 30mL dose was like having drunk a bottle of vodka.

One day someone will just make pyeyzolam at scale - because if a bottle of vodka costs £15, I imagine a pill with a VERY similar effect (but lacking hangover or other toxic symptoms) will be worth £5.

But then I suppose one has to trust the medicinal chemist who designed it and the fine chemical company that made it as well as the specialists who compound the product into tablets/capsules/whatever.
 
There was sold solid alcohol at kiosks for some time for dipping I think, as some powder. I think it was the carbamate of ethanol.
 
Ah yes, I did vaguely heard of it. But it's still just an ester of ethanol.

A much more interesting question is what sec-amyl alcohol carbamate taste like (since sec-amyl alcohol is x20 ethanol and has the same effects).

But it's been interesting to learn what causes the negative effects of ethanol (a1 affinity and ethanol toxicity) and what makes it good (a5 affinity).

The problem is making something a5 selective that isn't b1/2/3 or y 1/2 selective.
 
Quite a few alcohols have a similar effect to ethanol, some being much more potent. The problem is that they taste AWFUL. Yes, people have made 1,4-butanediol which is oxidised in vivo into GHB but apparently that also tastes awful.

Pyeyzolam doesn't really taste of anything but I dissolve 1g into 1L of dH2O and a 30mL dose was like having drunk a bottle of vodka.

One day someone will just make pyeyzolam at scale - because if a bottle of vodka costs £15, I imagine a pill with a VERY similar effect (but lacking hangover or other toxic symptoms) will be worth £5.

But then I suppose one has to trust the medicinal chemist who designed it and the fine chemical company that made it as well as the specialists who compound the product into tablets/capsules/whatever.

cannot find Pyeyzolam on wikipedia. is this something THAT new even wikipedia cannot keep up with it? im quite interested. especially since its easy to acquire in UK, must be quite much easier to obtain in the US!

edit: nevermind it was misspelled. its pyrazolam. similar to xanax, wow

it says this; US: Unscheduled !!!

its scheduled in UK, but i dunno how you get it. if its so easy for you, it must be 10x easier for me in the US since its unregulated. help me out here, msg!!
 
cannot find Pyeyzolam on wikipedia. is this something THAT new even wikipedia cannot keep up with it? im quite interested. especially since its easy to acquire in UK, must be quite much easier to obtain in the US!

edit: nevermind it was misspelled. its pyrazolam. similar to xanax, wow

These are two different benzos, one has an 8-bromo the other an 8-ethinyl group.
 
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