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Neurotoxicity showdown - Meth vs MDMA

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badrobot114

Bluelighter
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Sep 30, 2013
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So which one of these drugs is a more potent neurotoxin based on what we know? more importantly, which(if any) of them can be used in a responsible context(limited to a certain dose, usage spaced apart properly) to avoid/minimize the negative effects on the brain?

shoot away.
 
There are too many factors to consider, an accurate conclusion cannot be drawn.

How much of each drug are we talking about? Is binge use included or are we basing damage based on one single use? Is it being taken at home or in a club setting? Has it been tested or is from a street dealer named Pablo? These are just some of the factors that will play into how much damage will be done, there are many more.


Honestly though, both drugs can be used in a completely safe manner. They both have the potential to destroy lives, however. Meth is much more addictive, and people tend to stay up for weeks at a time smoking crystal. This is obviously MUCH worse for you than taking a single MDMA dose once a month. However, MDMA seems to be more damaging in the short term due to it mainly releasing serotonin. Dopamine regenerates MUCH faster than serotonin, which is why people will often binge on meth and not MDMA. While it may seem to do more damage though, I'd argue that if use it kept in line MDMA would be MUCH safer than meth, just because it has no where near the same kind of addiction problems.



Meth is an awful, life destroying drug. Stay away from it, seriously. I've had a few addictions in the past, and meth is the only one that truly took me over and rewired my brain to not see the pain I was causing myself. It's the devil's drug, truly. If you can get past that basic human urge for dopamine it can be a great drug, when used correctly.. but honestly the percentage of people who can use meth like that is very likely under 20%. Just say no kids, on this one.... just say no.
 
Considering the potency of the two compounds alone, methamphetamine is far worse milligram for milligram.

That said, nobody is 100% sure that MDMA isn't just as bad as methamphetamine. Look how much short term damage MDMA causes its users. People go on benders with methamphetamine because they still get something from it. MDMA depletes your serotonin levels so quickly and so efficiently that it is self-limiting in how much you can binge on it.

I'd say both of them are pretty bad but MDMA is much more insidious than meth.
 
^ If you dose the drugs at an equivalent amount to get to the same level of effects, MDMA would likely be "worse" though. Most people don't take just 50mg of meth and call it good though, they keep redosing until they can't take it anymore. People do that with MDMA too but it's just no where near as common.



I'd say MDMA is probably worse for you on a per-use baisis, but meth abuse is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more likely to come back and bite you in the ass even if you are careful.
 
Folley said:
I'd say MDMA is probably worse for you on a per-use baisis, but meth abuse is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more likely to come back and bite you in the ass even if you are careful.
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MDA takes the cake then. MDA you can binge to your heart's content on.

Also, you have to compare oral or nasal doses. I've never smoked meth but I've gotten pills that I knew were more meth than anything else and eaten them and occasionally snorted them. In the case of meth bombs that were tested by Edata and shown to have no MDMA after the fact, when taken orally, the crash was nowhere near as bad as either MDA or MDMA would have been.

There are just way too many variables to consider to make this viable.
 
I sure can't binge on MDA.. and it's been shown to be more damaging than MDMA. I feel fucking drained after a night on MDA, the comedown for MDMA usually doesn't start until a few days later.


I too have taken more meth bombs than I care to remember, there was a time around here that the dealers would just sell the pills as meth because everyone already knew and didn't like being lied so, especially since most people didn't care anyway. The comedown from those pills was usually AWFUL though, but I assume that's only because it's some nasty bathtub meth too gross to sell on the street. Just mix it with some pill binder and dye it blue and no one is the wiser, though... Also the fact that I would stay up for 36+ hours after my last dose and that I wouldn't eat anything the entire time obviously contributed to it a large amount, but that's extremely common when using amphetamines.


to be honest though, oral and even snorted meth is completely different from smoking/shooting. There's just this tinge of evil that comes from smoking a bowl of crystal, bad shit all around. Oral meth is a much easier habit to control, but that's likely because a large amount is converted to amphetamine
 
Well when I say binge on MDA I should say that you can continue to get more and more fucked up from MDA than MDMA... I've gone benders with MDA pills a few times. It destroyed me.

The meth bomb pills didn't destroy me near as much for the same duration of popping - both MDA and meth make me stay up a LONG time so I don't see much difference between the two on that one.

I think this thread is going to rapidly degenerate into tweakers versus rollers. I don't see any agreement coming out of this.

Even the scientific studies are totally conflicting.
 
So which one of these drugs is a more potent neurotoxin based on what we know?
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Well, they're both neurotoxins, and meth is more potent by weight... but that doesn't mean very much. You'd have to explain what you mean by "potent" to get a good answer to this question.

more importantly, which(if any) of them can be used in a responsible context(limited to a certain dose, usage spaced apart properly) to avoid/minimize the negative effects on the brain?
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Both.
 
Doesn't the ma in mdma stand for methamphetamine?.. I only rolled once but in my life and research experience, serotonin should not be fucked with
 
Meth can be used without addiction but you need strong will power or just to not find it much more than a way of getting more energy than coffee... Amazing what a few molecular changes to a chemicals structure can result in such different neurological effects. I call BS MDMA is not as bad as meth. MDMA can be abused and does cause some pretty fucked up side effects. Indeed at one point in my life you could have given me stupid amounts of meth and I'd have turned it down for MDMA... addiction??? If you want real answers I suggest actually reading some published scientific literature on the various subjects, ensuring the validity of the research material you are examining of course ;). Oh yes and the ma in mdma does stand for methyl amphetamine.

Also something most people fail to consider is fucking SLEEP. Get some fucking sleep. MDMA/Meth what ever both have you wired not sleeping and getting fried. Sleep is your friend and help repair the damage done. :) Don't binge just get 100 mg of meth for a weekend and that is it, oh and maybe some sleepers to help with the three day tweek. Same applies for MDMA except it's the suicidal feeling 3 days after a heavy MDMA session that is kind of worrying.
 
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Both drugs will work your ass in a way you'll never live down if you don't respect them. Save them for special occasions. I roll, and occasionally shoot or snort a bit of meth, like...ONCE a year.

I been doing drugs a long motherfuckin time, like twenty years, and having had too much trouble save with opiates. I don't complain about comedowns and the drugs making me cray cause I don't abuse them. They're savored.
 
Folley said:
I sure can't binge on MDA.. and it's been shown to be more damaging than MDMA. I feel fucking drained after a night on MDA, the comedown for MDMA usually doesn't start until a few days later.


I too have taken more meth bombs than I care to remember, there was a time around here that the dealers would just sell the pills as meth because everyone already knew and didn't like being lied so, especially since most people didn't care anyway. The comedown from those pills was usually AWFUL though, but I assume that's only because it's some nasty bathtub meth too gross to sell on the street. Just mix it with some pill binder and dye it blue and no one is the wiser, though... Also the fact that I would stay up for 36+ hours after my last dose and that I wouldn't eat anything the entire time obviously contributed to it a large amount, but that's extremely common when using amphetamines.


to be honest though, oral and even snorted meth is completely different from smoking/shooting. There's just this tinge of evil that comes from smoking a bowl of crystal, bad shit all around. Oral meth is a much easier habit to control, but that's likely because a large amount is converted to amphetamine
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Probably the evil is the 10 % carcinogenic gas byproduct of smoking meth, use a meth bong, problem gone. Smoking meth is a waste though. Not as intense, more mellow, more fiendish just in short shit house.

Also 36 hours from dirty speed bombs, how many did you take? Ever consider a sleeper? Body mass/weight, dose etc all contribute to prolonged duration of unwanted side effects. MDMA = suicide Tuesday. Meth = Psychotic Sunday lmfao.
 
Morphling said:
Both drugs will work your ass in a way you'll never live down if you don't respect them. Save them for special occasions. I roll, and occasionally shoot or snort a bit of meth, like...ONCE a year.

I been doing drugs a long motherfuckin time, like twenty years, and having had too much trouble save with opiates. I don't complain about comedowns and the drugs making me cray cause I don't abuse them. They're savored.
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Agreed but it's those once a blue moon events that tend to become benders for me at least... takes a few days to pick up the pieces.
 
Folley said:
I sure can't binge on MDA.. and it's been shown to be more damaging than MDMA. I feel fucking drained after a night on MDA, the comedown for MDMA usually doesn't start until a few days later.


I too have taken more meth bombs than I care to remember, there was a time around here that the dealers would just sell the pills as meth because everyone already knew and didn't like being lied so, especially since most people didn't care anyway. The comedown from those pills was usually AWFUL though, but I assume that's only because it's some nasty bathtub meth too gross to sell on the street. Just mix it with some pill binder and dye it blue and no one is the wiser, though... Also the fact that I would stay up for 36+ hours after my last dose and that I wouldn't eat anything the entire time obviously contributed to it a large amount, but that's extremely common when using amphetamines.


to be honest though, oral and even snorted meth is completely different from smoking/shooting. There's just this tinge of evil that comes from smoking a bowl of crystal, bad shit all around. Oral meth is a much easier habit to control, but that's likely because a large amount is converted to amphetamine
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Sorry to hijack the thread, but can you explain the bolded part? That really interests me because I use meth occasionally, but would prefer to have amphetamines due to neurotoxcity...so eating meths make it convert to amphetamine? I've never tried eating it, only smoking/shooting/snorting and I find all three methods lead to extremely horrible comedowns that suggests bad neurotoxicity to me (that is if you consume over one point in a night. less than that is a pretty tame comedown). How much would you even take as an oral dose? I find a tiny line of meth to be pretty intense because of its potency.

Topic of this thread intrigues me. I've always wondered if meth needs to be used once a month like MDMA or if you can dose it more frequently without fucking your head.

In my opinion I find MDMA to be less neurotoxic in the sense that recovery is quicker and there are little longterm effects but I haven't studied any papers on.
 
^ Basically the liver just removes the methyl group, turning methamphetamine into amphetamine.

I believe that's how it works at least, I'd need to look it up to be sure as it's been quite some time since I read that. Try taking around 25mg or so orally, you'll need a bit more than you'd need if you were snorting but it lasts a LOT longer and is no where near as fiendy so you use a lot less in the long run.

Give oral dosing a shot, it really is worthwhile if you normally use meth via snorting or smoking.
 
that's likely because a large amount is converted to amphetamine
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Nope. The amounts are relatively small. d-meth is roughly twice as potent as dexedrine by weight, but it will be less arousing/anxiogenic at doses according an equivalent boost in concentration and compulsion. What's most euphoric is up to you.

So do people regularly take 200 mg / dexedrine in a go? That's a literal handful of pills.

Meth is only a bit more destructive than other dopamine releasers if dosages are kept sensible, but users rarely do this.

ebola
 
In my experience MDMA is the harder one on the brain. Also you can use 10mg of meth and feel it, where as with MDMA you need a certain dose to feel something. Serotonin releasers are more neuro toxic than dopamine releasers. So MDMA is more damaging than meth, how ever as people already mentioned meth is much easier to get addicted to.

If you were to dose meth just once a month and MDMA once a month, i think meth would be the more gentle drug. I notice recovery with meth extremely fast, where as MDMA leaves me with lingering effects that are noticeable for days if not weeks (months when i over do it) .
 
Serotonin releasers are more neuro toxic than dopamine releasers.
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It is more complex than this. Combined release of 5ht and DA usually confers the worst toxicity, but some compounds provide exceptions, for reasons not fully researched yet. The damage is exacerbated by formation of metabolites of dopamine and the compound itself that function as free-radicals, taken up by reversed SERT after vesicular 5ht has been depleted, but to a lesser extent, DAT. Selective 5ht releasers do not exhibit neurotoxicity.

But in terms of this conversation, it's not clear whether dramatic 5ht release concurrent with modest DA release (eg MDMA) is safer or more dangerous than dramatic DA release accompanied by minor 5ht release (eg meth).

Dosing either sensibly once a month with either compound tends to be near-sustainable, the risk mainly being accumulation of tolerance rather than noticeable after-effects beyond initial hangover.

ebola
 
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