Networking: Fancy Word For Breaking The Rules

[Ksa]

People advance the idea that getting a job is all about "who you know". If you know the right people, and they put in a word for you, this allows you to strive by skipping the formal hiring procedure and, at that point, you can consider yourself half-way hired. This is deemed to be the most efficient way of getting a job by most human resource authorities as well as professional authorities like the P.E.O. chair.

Engaging into a private arrangement with an insider in order to skip the formal hiring procedure and infiltrate the company? It sounds like organized crime, and indeed, it is crime. The formal hiring procedure is there for a reason: to select the best candidate, and ALL candidates must go through it to ensure equality and ethical standards. If you have to go around the procedure in order to be hired it can mean two things:

1) The hiring procedure is wrong, un-lawful, discriminatory, inefficient and it must be removed to restore order.

2) The candidates who go around the hiring procedure through inner contacts are common criminals who deserve prosecution and layoff effective immediately. The person who helped a candidate to bypass the hiring procedure by putting in a word to the manager should also face prosecution and layoff for facilitating crime. The manager who took the word, interviewed and hired the candidate outside human resources should also face prosecution and layoff.

It's unfair to the other candidates and shouldn't be allowed. In the Mafia, or other organized crime associations, it is a common practice to seek contacts and "know the right people" such as the Godfather. If citizens need to commit such low acts in order to obtain what is rightfully theirs, such as a job, the government has failed to provide them with a healthy social and professional environment. The environment is toxic. It stinks and requires purging.

It's like getting to a Bank's safe. Everybody goes through the front door. Then the career expert argues: You should come during the night. Sneak through the back door, not the front door because they have screening devices, cameras and so on. And you must also get help from an insider who can get you to the safe. And you know, the other people who try to go through the front door, watch them try from your chair while you thrive. This is disgusting, filthy behavior that is encouraged here.

Universities, criminal #1, should be responsible for misguiding youngsters into dead-end careers through a full refund clause stating that if employment is not found 2 years following graduation, the full tuition expense will be reimbursed to the student. Then the universities will begin to run market analysis, and carefully prevent students from engaging into careers that record a drop. And even if such data cannot accurately describe the future tendency, the university should at least split the risk with the student. Right now the risk is 100% on the student.

Companies, criminal #2, should either change hiring procedure or severely prosecute people who bypass the hiring procedure or help others doing so, in order to ensure equality and ethical standards. They should also communicate their needs to the universities, so that they only admit students in programs upon specific requirements. If, upon admitting a student following a company's requirement, the student completes the program, is jobless and the university has to reimburse his tuition, the university should sue the company for not keeping its side of the agreement.

Can anyone propose a more ethical approach to getting a job than to sneak behind the back of my brother and sister engineers stealing their positions?

 

[L2R]

networking ≠ bias.

it sometimes can, but not essentially.

 

[Jerry Atrick]

First of all, I'm not sure if I have ever heard of someone bypassing the HR process altogether. I know that applications often ask if you know anyone who works there. Are you saying you would leave that box blank based on principle? I know that people can be hired at the recommendation of someone else within the company. But bypassing HR? Sounds like something fabricated in the mind of a paranoid angry person who isn't having luck getting hired. I'm not saying that's you, it's just what your post sounds like.

If you are unemployed but skilled and you know someone in your industry who just happens to work somewhere you are applying, IMO you'd be stupid not to ask that person to at least put in a good word for you. If you know people and have friends in your industry, you are shooting yourself in the foot by not taking advantage of it. Especially if you're unemployed and broke. I am not talking about bypassing HR, I'm saying all it takes sometimes is a little nudge.

But hey, maybe you're financially independent and don't have many expenses other than internet. Personally, I hate working so I prolly shouldn't network either.

As for the universities giving a refund, that seems pretty absurd. I don't know where you went to college but where I went, I couldn't count how many people I knew who didn't give a shit about going to class or how high their GPA was. Maybe their parents paid for their schooling and they just didn't care. I don't know. Offering a refund would mean the student had to prove they tried to succeed but didn't. Maybe they should only give refunds to those with a high GPA. Ah, but then a bunch of slackers would complain they are being discriminated against.

And the university suing a company for not keeping up an agreement? I can't tell if you're serious or fucking with us. lol. Where's the accountability for the actual student or potential employee? Your plan would only promote laziness because nobody would have any incentive to actually try. "Yeah, I drank and smoked away my education but don't worry, I'll get my money back."

Yes, I know there are some very successful students out there getting passed up for jobs. I know there are well-educated highly skilled people not getting positions that best utilize their strengths and abilities. It sucks but this is the world we live in. People have to adapt and be flexible. Sure, you can pass up all the opportunities that come by and snub your friends all based on principle just to have a right to complain. But then all you'll be at the end of the day is a broke unemployed complainer.

 

[Ksa]

As for the universities giving a refund, that seems pretty absurd. I don't know where you went to college but where I went, I couldn't count how many people I knew who didn't give a shit about going to class or how high their GPA was. Maybe their parents paid for their schooling and they just didn't care. I don't know. Offering a refund would mean the student had to prove they tried to succeed but didn't. Maybe they should only give refunds to those with a high GPA. Ah, but then a bunch of slackers would complain they are being discriminated against.

Brother, the university asks for 4.5/10 GPS to be awarded the program. It's like, you go to the marketplace to buy a battery for 5,00$ and on it it mentions 2 year guarantee with full refund. After 2 years your battery fails. You go back to the store to get refund then the manager argues, "Ha! You only paid 5,00$! If you had tried, if you strive and paid 10,00$ I would have no problem giving you refund". Brother...the requirement to get a diploma is 4.5/10. Nowhere is it mentioned that if you have 4.6 you didn't complete the requirements. Anything other then that, like what you said about trying, striving, slacking, it is a fabrication, it's a concoction, it's interpolation, it's an innovation. It's not the rules.

It's an agreement! Instead of overpaying 5,00$ for the battery, you could do something else also like buy candy. If you get 4.5gps it doesn't mean you don't try, it means you tried and you successfully fulfilled their requirements. If the clerk asks someone for 5,00$ to pass with the products and he gives the clerk 10.00$, he's an idiot. In real life it's not even possible, the clerk will run with the money after you "hey! You forgot your money! Wake up!".

Show me a rule where "trying" is required. You know, I've met people like Rob in University, brilliant student, 160+IQ, his GPA was 9.97/10. He didn't try! He would drink, smoke weed and do pill party all day, and when he showed up for exam, 100 out of 100. Without even trying! I was with him all the time, it's not like he was secretly studying, I knew him well. Then you come argue "you have to try!" who are you to interfere? If they think 4.5 is too low, no problem, raise it up to 6,00, 7,00 or even 9.00 and I'll be happy to meet their requirements. HAPPY.

Brother, if you get 4.5GPS it doesn’t mean you don’t strive. The limit is there so that, persons with a lower IQ such as 95 or 90 can also get their diploma, and they too strive. Your knowledge is very weak. Your rules discriminate against people with a lower IQ, with ADHD, etc. but naturally, we agreed that it's not University rules, it's Jerry Atrick rules, it's a fabrication, it's an innovation to the rules, it's not the rules. If by trying you mean getting a mark as far possible from what's required, you're not really following the rules, might as well try to rob also.

And the university suing a company for not keeping up an agreement? I can't tell if you're serious or fucking with us. lol. Where's the accountability for the actual student or potential employee? Your plan would only promote laziness because nobody would have any incentive to actually try. "Yeah, I drank and smoked away my education but don't worry, I'll get my money back."

Very easy explanation. Company requires an electrical engineer. Company places an order to Universities. The first university who finds a student answering that request takes the request and admits the student with the highest average of all candidates in engineering. Then if other students come to get admission in engineering the university says there's no industry spot for them, they cannot hire them so they cannot enter the university. If the market is saturated with engineers, then no problem, there may be 2,3,4,5 even 10 years where NO engineer can enter a faculty in any university. No problem!

Very simple, not complicated for the brain, look: Universities and companies are 2. They should be 1 and work hand in hand. Universities are making money by registering thousands of students in certain programs, knowing it's a dead end, that no company would hire them, and that's crime. They took their money!

 

[thujone]

Are you ranting because you paid a lot of money for a good degree and can't find a suitable job?

 

[Ksa]

Are you ranting because you paid a lot of money for a good degree and can't find a suitable job?

Ranting is a pejorative word for demanding rights. If you go down this alley, then Martin Luther King was ranting too. People said, AH! you mad because you can't sit in the white area...get over it.

Some people, don't just get over it. They realize that something is wrong and they try to fix it. I have brought forth arguments, if you have arguments to bring forth be my guest, but to answer your question, yes.

I live in Ontario, the most educated state in the entire world. How did Canada let this tragedy happen? Ask them.

 

[thujone]

I live in Ontario too, and spent some years working blue collar jobs in this most educated province where I met people who had degrees and worked for government, healthcare sector, even in civil engineering just to end up taking orders from someone half their age and with only a high-school diploma. Guess what, life ain't fair, and you're not guaranteed anything ever unless you have a legally-binding contract that can be enforced. All you were promised is an education and a degree, and you got those things. It's pretty audacious to compare your problem to the civil rights movement in the U.S. You're not marginalized, you have the same opportunity everyone else has to knock on doors and talk to people in your field who might help you get a job. If you can't be bothered to take the initiative and poke people until you can wedge your foot in a door, don't complain that you aren't getting invited in.

 

[Ksa]

I live in Ontario too, and spent some years working blue collar jobs in this most educated province where I met people who had degrees and worked for government, healthcare sector, even in civil engineering just to end up taking orders from someone half their age and with only a high-school diploma. Guess what, life ain't fair, and you're not guaranteed anything ever unless you have a legally-binding contract that can be enforced. All you were promised is an education and a degree, and you got those things. It's pretty audacious to compare your problem to the civil rights movement in the U.S. You're not marginalized, you have the same opportunity everyone else has to knock on doors and talk to people in your field who might help you get a job. If you can't be bothered to take the initiative and poke people until you can wedge your foot in a door, don't complain that you aren't getting invited in.

Are you taking about Facebook?

 

[thujone]

No, I mean keeping up with local events and volunteer/intern/co-op opportunities in line with the career you want to get into and physically going and introducing yourself, making offers, asking questions. Every person is a wealth of information, it's really just a matter of physically getting access to them and asking good questions to find out what is possible and how your skills can fit in. Try pestering some people in the engineering department at school to see if they can get you any sort of experience, and if they can't help you, find someone else to pester, and so on, and so forth, until you get an opportunity.

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

Welcome to capitalism. Try not to kill yourself.

 

[double ewe]

networking is about getting your resume noticed, not about being handed a job you're not qualified for.

universities sell you an education and a degree. what education and degree you pursue is up to you, as is what you do with those things once you have them. you don't get a refund from the hardware store just because you bought the wrong tools for the job (or don't know how to use the tools you bought).

you're not fucking martin luther king jr.

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

This^lol

 

[Roger&Me]

Universities, criminal #1, should be responsible for misguiding youngsters into dead-end careers through a full refund clause stating that if employment is not found 2 years following graduation, the full tuition expense will be reimbursed to the student.

at the risk of sounding too much like alasdair, why should your employment be the university's responsibility?

you sound like a weak little wiener kid tbh, no offense. a degree does not guarantee you a job, and nobody ever said it did. you have to make moves or this economy will eat you alive. my advice is to make yourself valuable by learning an in-demand skill, instead of spending your time trying to find people to blame for your unemployment.

 

[Tude]

Like it has already been said, OP, it's not the university's job to research career prospects in your intended field of study, it's yours. If someone is far too lazy to find out whether or not their degree will provide them with a skill in demand, they deserve to pay for a degree that is "useless." Of course, it's not really useless, because you attained a higher level of education, but still.

A problem I see with companies "ordering" students is that some people pursue higher education for the sake of learning. Not allowing them to enter the program of their choice would be wrong.

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

Coritsol and chronic anger are two great things for undermining a higher education as well

 

[Ksa]

at the risk of sounding too much like alasdair, why should your employment be the university's responsibility?

you sound like a weak little wiener kid tbh, no offense. a degree does not guarantee you a job, and nobody ever said it did. you have to make moves or this economy will eat you alive. my advice is to make yourself valuable by learning an in-demand skill, instead of spending your time trying to find people to blame for your unemployment.

What is an in-demand skill in chemistry and chemical engineering that can be learned outside the context of a job?

Autocad. I know it. I put it in my resume and it makes no difference. I can lay a drawing faster than a professional engineer. I designed graphics for games, doing graphics comes natural to me, and guess what:





NOBODY CARES.





You tell me brother. You know I have dreams of me going into a company to replace someone, then, I do his work 2x faster then him, then I get fired? When I ask why, boss tells me "you work twice faster then the previous guy, are you trying to prove something? Gtfo!". Absurd scenarios come up in my subconscious to explain the unexplainable.

 

[Roger&Me]

What is an in-demand skill in chemistry and chemical engineering that can be learned outside the context of a job?

chemistry is no longer a growth sector in the west, the jobs simply do not exist. realistically you will probably have to change fields. if you need somebody to blame for this, blame china.

either do that or if you have really, really good grades and a strong publication history then you can try to get into a phd program at somewhere like harvard, scrips, mit, etc and then afterwards do a few post-docs, and if you survive all that you might be able to get a job as a professor somewhere. but if you can't get into one of the top programs, don't even bother, you'll just waste more time during what should be your prime years.

go get a business or computer engineering degree. chalk your chemistry education up to practice.

 

[ebola?]

Welcome to capitalism. Try not to kill yourself.

Lol, welcome to humanity. Is there any social context where personal biases are effectively excluded or nullified?

ebola