Well I can't say I'm too surprised at some reactions. Firstly, I'd like to ask a few questions.
- What reputable Analytical Laboratory can work with illicit substances without reporting the findings?
- Who here, thinks the police don't monitor this site?
- Who would rather be busted for importation/ possession rather than be forewarned that what they are doing is illegal and could get them busted?
What's next? Reporting people who openly declare they've bought / abused them so that a friendly policeman can visit to take them away in the interests of safety?
There's never been, nor shall there ever be any intent to report anyone for anything. If you think I'd involve myself in anything that would deliberately or purposefully serve to bust users, then I'd suggest you look over my posting history. Better still, ask anyone who knows me.
Mmm.. so as this information has been passed onto the authorities, does this mean that it is now effectively illegal to import this range of pills as covered by analogue laws?
Nothing has changed, these products were illegal to possess before, just as they are now. Whether they are illegal to import is still open to question.
I have to agree with sinbad, especially since that fellow from Stargate being involved, who has a vested monetary interest in seeing these products banned for his own profit.
Having had communication with starboy on this matter, I believe you are totally wrong. He has much more to gain if any of the products can be shown to be safe. There are no patents involved, just secrecy from Neorganics.
What if they are safer than illicit drugs?
I'd much rather take something made in a lab than something pressed in a shed to be perfectly honest.
You also sound like someone with a vested interest in seeing them banned.
I can understand what rm2x is saying, only there's much to be considered here. We don't know if these products are produced any better than some of the MDMA around. We also know MDMA and its general profile. How do you know something like PMA is not in these products? My point is that blind faith does not mean safe, and without knowing
exactly what's in these, you are certainly no safer than buying a pill off a stranger.
I have no vested interest in seeing any product banned that is safe, or at least relatively safe. I do believe users should know what they're taking - simple as that. Harm Reduction is virtually valueless without being able to make an informed choice.
Labelling them “Vitamin C” draws attention away from the fact that they are used recreationally
Umm...so you are happy with the thought that you or someone else might lose their job over a positive urine test? Or perhaps be convicted of driving while under the influence, or be hospitalized because of a predisposing condition, and have doctors not know where to start?
Mislabelling, regardless of intention is misleading and dangerous. All done in the name of taking your money. It's wrong, simple as that.
My brother runs a party pill company, and whilst he may actually cap and package the products at home, the actual ingredients are custom synthed in labs around the world.
Yes, and because no QC exists with some of these products, and most if not all have little to no clinical trial history, now piperazines have been made illegal in New Zealand.
The ingredients in the products in mention are likely sourced from China or India, simply because those are the cheapest suppliers. QC is therefore possibly non-existent. In the real pharmaceutical world, independent assessors do batch sample analysis on all pharmaceutical drugs released in this country. Inconsistency is rare because of it. Without local QC checks, you just never know.
Surely customs have been taking the pills out to test them (and not to eat them)
You'd have to be stupid to think they didn't know.
They are working for the federal government, so one can assume that they have quite good labs for testing.
Bare this in mind. It has taken many months by experienced forensic chemists employing several analytical procedures, including those off site, to identify these compounds. It has not been easy and I'm quite sure in saying to date this hasn't been done by anyone else in this country.
Which leads me to another question, what involvement does Bluelight have with other governmental agencies? How many times has Bluelight had contact with government agencies about various vendors?
I've been involved in many government projects - I've never attempted to hide that. Perhaps some of you are too assuming, but if you read my posts you'd know of most if not all projects I've previously been involved with. Again, my purpose has always been harm reduction focused, although I'm not foolish enough to think that harm reduction is completely separated from other forms of harm minimisation - and anyone who does is living in a dream.
I feel kinda used, especially after doing the Neo survey . . .
I don't know why you should feel like this. It's your health and wellbeing I and other connected with this project are concerned about and I've never said any different. If you want to purchase and use drugs and believe this is your right to do so, stand up and be counted, become proactive. The survey is designed to get some scientific data on the effects of these substances and combinations of substances and is not designed to in anyway endanger your liberty, but it might help save a life.
For those of you who feel this is the wrong way to go, I'll debate you on this any time you like. Harm Reduction is about knowing what you are taking and then developing a plan, strategy etc so as to minimise any harm, or, deciding that the risks outweigh the gains. None of you know what's in these yet and many have displayed a nonchalant and carefree attitude about these products. For some of you, that may change.
As for ruining anyone's chance of purchasing these; I've no hesitation in identifying these compounds, and by identifying them I mean just that. You can't have your cake and eat it too. The company could have stated the ingredients and labelled their products accordingly - they didn't. Why? Because they would rather have sales, even if that meant putting
your liberty or health at risk.
If it makes you feel any better, I believe this is simply the tip of the iceberg in that one of the products is likely indicative of the way many rec drugs will be developed in the future. The principle (a prodrug) is nothing new, but it's bound to be employed by those attempting to circumvent legislation - although truth be known, it probably dosen't. So it's important to realise this was likely done in order to 'hide' an already illegal drug. The alternative reason is that it was a shortcut, as normal cleavage of the group requires nasty hydrazine to avoid too many side reaction products. If so, then it raises more questions about the reliability of the company. I'll detail more in my summary of the report, which will include possible health dangers with this approach.
While the pro-drug idea is likely to be used in future rec drug design, I just hope the pharm/tox profile of these future drugs is well established, and confirmed by normal pharmaceutical means. Otherwise, I'll be spending my days assisting in the identification of these products - regardless of the outcomes.
This is Harm Reduction.
I am in agreeance with informed decisions, rather than assisted regulation.
Read the second and third questions on the top of this post. Let's just say we were able to get these things properly analysed without informing authorities and then post the results here. Don't you think that police reading these pages wouldn't pick up on this? The likely outcome would be that someone is busted. Would you prefer this to being forewarned?
Perhaps some of you need reminding what this site is all about. It’s not designed to facilitate you obtaining drugs, it’s about protecting users, and an informed choice is the first and most important step.