Need help with IM injection of 4-AcO-DMT

[rave23]

Hey everyone, got a couple of questions pertaining to harm reduction I could use some help with.

I have acquired some 4-AcO-DMT fumarate, and I'm set on trying the IM route.

I have quite the experience with IV opiates, I'm glad I kicked that habit. This has lead me under the impression that you don't want a shot to end up in the muscle.

So my questions are:

- how many IU's are typical for a IM injection?
- Do I have to use sterile injectable saline, or does sterile water also work?
- what length of needle would I use? 1/4 inch all the way?
- gauge of needle? I image the smaller the better? 30 or 31 maybe?

I would like to know how to prepare the solution also. I am thinking measuring out 15mg of powder, dropping it in the syringe, then drawing up the sterile water, the fumarate dissolves without hassle.

I know I'm supposed to pull back the plunger to confirm I am not in a blood vessel.

 

[spacejunk]

i've never done IM, because the risk of infection or tissue damage freaks me out a bit.
If you are really set on doing this, i would urge you to use a micron filter.

Are you determined not to go the IV route because of former bad habits?
I used to IV 4-aco-dmt...and while its not something i would ever advise anyone try, it is pretty fucking insane. Has a come-up very similar to vaped DMT, but followed by a really visual psilocin-esque trip.

Have you considered plugging the stuff? I believe it has a similar rate of absorption to an IM shot, but much safer.
Really i think it is best to avoid injection ROAs, but i don't know if many people IM this stuff, or if there is any advantage to doing so.
IV was "sober to hyperspace" in a matter of seconds, sometimes the buzzing sounds would start before the plunger was fully pushed down. With good technique you have just enough time to put the cap back the works before completely disappearing into some weird tryptamine dimension.
Not for the faint-hearted. Glad i don't do shit like that any more, it's pretty scary really.

 

[rave23]

Rectal administration will be part of my trials, you bet.

Oral and IM are on the list as well.

I don't want to IV, I have had one horribly experience with IV DMT that left me unconscious with a needle hanging in my vein and a huge freaking bruise.

I suppose I could acquire a micron filter, but in my limited experience with them they require quite a large volume of liquid to work properly, at least 1 or 2 ml to clear the volume of the filter.

I was hoping to get away with a small 30 I 1/4 inch syringe with 31 gauge needle for this.

I am set on doing this, I have read a lot of people in the big and dandy 4-AcO-DMT threads talk about their experiences and with IM, but nobody talks about the proper procedure or how they go about it.

IV is out of the question for me. I can not bear another self administration of Intravenous drugs. Not on the onset of a psychedelic trip.

If micron filters were absolutely necessary I'd had to prepare a larger volume than I'd want to use, because the filters I can get take 1.5ml before any fitrate comes out the other end. I was going to do this once, maybe twice if the first time flops.

 

[spacejunk]

Ouch, that DMT experience sounds horrible.

One trick with microns that not everyone seems to be aware if is to make sure you push some water through it before using it to filter your solution.
By wetting it, your solution will pass through more easily, and not get absorbed by the filter, as seems to happen if you filter a small amount with a dry micron filter.
You shouldn't have to use anywhere near 2ml of liquid (or even 1ml) to use a micron filter correctly. Admittedly i havent used them in a really long time, but found that more solution passed through them when i pre-wet them. Same principle applies for coffee filters when doing a CWE, incidentally.
But the risk of abcess or infection is increased with IM which is why i would recommend using microns.

Good to hear you're determined not to use IV drugs though - frankly, that is always a good thing to hear.
Enjoy the psilacetin - it's magical stuff. I used to really love it, some of the best trips i've ever had.

 

[rave23]

I know i should employ a micron filter ideally, but walk me through this please.

Psilacetin is a very dosage dependant psychedelic, i feel if i pre-moisturize the filter with saline, and then attempt to push 30 IU of my solution through, the 30 IU of filtrate coming out the other side would surely be diluted to some extend, no?

I also need an answer to the question of how much liquid is okay to IM, i can't imagine even 1cc to be very comfortable. I was under the impression that less is better when IM administration is done.

Maybe what i ought to do is get a whole bunch of filters, figure out exactly how much liquid is needed before something comes out the other side on a dry filter, then work some math, or run 2 / 3 ml through at something like 50 mg / ml and do my solution calculation from there?

If bacteria are a factor, could i simply cook the IM shot like i would have done with heroin?

The IV DMT was some serious shit. i got 70% through pushing the plunger, when i felt like i was standing inside the worlds largest bell that just got hit by a meteor. Wham, that ringing, the feeling of being pulled out of my skin backwards, complete visual shutdown, next i know it's 45 minutes later and the needle still in my vein and a bruise on my arm the size of a dollar bill.

 

[Solipsis]

If you would want to make 3.0 ml of solution and are afraid of dilution, why not make a solution initially more concentrated with your trypt in say 2.0 ml.
Then you pre-wet the filter with 0.5 ml of saline, pass through the trypt solution, and chase with another 0.5 ml saline. You'd still end up with the 3.0 ml solution. Oh maybe thats what you meant in your post.

1 cc (1 ml) is comfortable to IM for sure imo. It's very normal, I've done that with K, PCP analogues, oxycodone, and one time 2-FMA and another time 2C-C for example.. And in shoulder, thigh and ass muscles but mostly thigh.

I guess above 2 ml for a single dose would get pretty annoying, I think the limit considered for a single IM dose in one muscle is either 3 or 5 ml. But if need be, you could spread it over 2 muscles. It shouldn't be necessary though, I bet the tryptamine is soluble enough for a dose to fit in under a cc. Rotate (cycle) muscles anyway if it becomes a habit.

The solution could sting depending on the drug. I've had a burn when I tried neutralizing DMT freebase with citric acid and IMed it. Probably incomplete reaction or excess. 2C-C also didn't feel right. I also read bad things about IMing phens, seems quite bad for your body and I will never do it again I think. Maybe a DOX since doses are small.

Don't just cook like for IV. With IV use not infecting your body is obviously important, but particulate matter can to some extent be dealt with. In any case what you introduce circulates in your bloodstream - if it's really nasty then the problem is that much more serious than with IM.. but with IM the chances of local problems are much bigger since anything that is insoluble will just sit in your muscle and fester. So no... don't do that, filter.

Use one filter for a batch of the drug filtered into an unused sterile rubber stopper vial. If you'd filter every dose then it gets really expensive, unrealistically IMO.

Damn yeah that DMT sounds heavy and serious, how much did you dose? I've IMed DMT and also 5-MeO-DMT but never got anything like that, I learned my dosages.

 

[red22]

I've done many, many IM injections using store bought spring water and no filtration, not even cotton. Many times I haven't even swabbed my skin with alcohol as alcohol needs to be in contact with microbes for minutes to actually do anything, from what I understand (so if you're not gonna tape an alcohol swab to your skin and wait, why do anything at all).

 

[Philosoraptor]

I would use bacteriostatic water, which you can get about any online medical supply place.

I would also use a 25gX1 inch needle. Seems to be the best to me for IM injections due to the needle not being too long. I can push a 1inch all the way in to either my quad, delt, glute, ventro glute, lats. Basically anywhere. I've been doing IM injections about 5 years now and never had any issues. Of course I'm injecting oil. And use an insulin syringe for sub q injects.

 

[red22]

I would also use a 25gX1 inch needle. Seems to be the best to me for IM injections due to the needle not being too long. I can push a 1inch all the way in to either my quad, delt, glute, ventro glute, lats. Basically anywhere.

I use 1.5"

How exactly is 1" better?

I would use bacteriostatic water, which you can get about any online medical supply place.

I would imagine bottled water is pasteurized before being placed in the bottles.

 

[Philosoraptor]

I've done many, many IM injections using store bought spring water and no filtration, not even cotton. Many times I haven't even swabbed my skin with alcohol as alcohol needs to be in contact with microbes for minutes to actually do anything, from what I understand (so if you're not gonna tape an alcohol swab to your skin and wait, why do anything at all).

This is not good advice.

Do not use spring water. It could have Bacteria, you never know. And also always use a 70% alcohol swab. Swab the area and let set until dry then proceed. Trust me you do NOT want an infection.

 

[Philosoraptor]

I use 1.5"

How exactly is 1" better?




I would imagine bottled water is pasteurized before being placed in the bottles.

The reasons I said mostly. Because I can literally pin a 1 inch anywhere and not have to worry about hitting bone. And also the majority of the people on here more than likely don't have an excess of muscle mass so there is absolutely no need to use anything longer unless you are just overly muscular or fat.


Why risk it? You say you imagine. But bacteriostatic water is cheap and sterile.

 

[Madrus]

Did you already check or ask in the dedicated 4-AcO-DMT Dosage/ROA thread?

 

[red22]

It could have Bacteria, you never know.

Why is it that no one ever provides credible references when bringing up the injection/bacteria issue. A concept of the different levels of bacteria and their corresponding risks? People are always just like 'oh my god, bacteria!' I hope you realize that there are various antibacterial elements in nature, such as the sun. A spring is not a stew of bacteria. In a documentary on food, one particular farmer who slaughtered his chickens outside scored in a lower bacterial count for his working environment than conventional indoor farms. Bacteriostatic water sounds like a frivolous joke to me. How much better is it than purified water treated with boiling? As I said, I just use spring water and I don't even boil it and I've never gotten an infection (the bottling company may boil it, however).

And what about adding a small amount of iodine to the water. I think using iodine for emergency, on-the-go water sanitizing accomplishes a concentration of about one microgram per milliliter (and the RDA of iodine is 150 mcg). Iodine kicks ass: http://blankrefer.com/?http://ehs.research.uiowa.edu/826-iodine-and-iodophors

 

[phatass]

From the little i deduce, your 4-ACO-DMT is not 100% pure, so an IM has it's obvious dangers, a micron filter and saline solution (sterile environment etc.) wash your hands, will reduce the risks if you're really determined on IM'ing 4-ACO-DMT.

 

[TheBlackPirate]

(with 12 mg phosphate ester, intramuscularly) "This is strong. There were a lot of wild images in about two hours, and I thought that the day would never end. At about six hours I knew it would, but in fact in the evening I took 100 milligrams of seconal which allowed me to drift into a fine sleep. The next day I was fine."

https://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal18.shtml

 

[Solipsis]

This is a harm reduction forum. I get that there are methods that do not use micron filters, but do use other precautions to try and prevent infection - and this is more effective / less unsafe than just IMing drugs in unfiltered tapwater like you just don't care... for people who just can't be bothered to find and buy micron filters but insist on IMing anyway yes it's better than nothing, but do not try and sell the idea here that it's just fine - and not to worry about it. Maybe you don't realize, but you lower safety standards like that, the more that happens the more harm is caused.

Perhaps ethanol is not a die-hard desinfectant, but I imagine swabbing can help with major bacterial colonies that could otherwise get dragged along whole into your muscle? Totally killing everything alive on your skin surface would both dry out your skin like crazy and you need the benign bacterial flora for a healthy skin, I guess to prevent harmful bacteria from making a nice home for themselves there. I don't think that was ever the aim, and it would also be pointless to do that to a surface if you are only injecting into a basically tiny site.

Swabbing with 70% alcohol seems less vital than filtering if you *have* to choose, though perhaps it depends whether you showered and scrubbed recently. Major chunks of loose dead skin with bacteria and gunk on top is not nice to drag along with a needle.
It's hard to say what particulate matter or microbial presence you have in your drug and it's just too careless an attitude to assume that it's all probably unlikely to become a problem for you to introduce into your muscular tissue.

If you start IMing, also IVing for that matter, you are sort of gambling - you want to minimize the odds of infection or complications since it's just not worth it considering potential bad consequences. Demineralized / distilled water is better than random tap water, is better than pond water. Sure there are degrees of safe, go for the best one - don't settle for 'just ok' and even going lower as you get more lax during your drug use as a result of having gotten no infection so far. Unconsciously you draw idiotic conclusions from that about safety. Human brains are stupid that way, none of us is a real exception to that no matter how special you may think you are.

Don't marginalize the risks. Seriously.

 

[phatass]

Whats up OP... which ROA? Could one IM 4-HO-MET? (would the dosage required be 1/2 that of sniffed say?

^^Word, i couldn't walk for 24 hours after an IM done with tap water, then again there was 30mg 3-meo-pcp and 175mg of DPT. bit too much, the 3-meo hurt more than the DPT.... but i went to the ER, felt like my leg was rotting from the inside, i was limping like a Vietnam Vet.

 

[rave23]

Alright lads, i have been thinking about this way too much recently.

I think i will stay clear of syringes until i can get a micron filter.

So tonight, i will stick a good dosage up my fanny.

Thank you for answering the question about the volume of injection, if 1 ml is not a problem, then i can work something out with a micron filter. I am only used to IM being done during vaccinations, with maybe 20 or 30 IU's of liquid.

 

[TheBlackPirate]

I have vaporized the freebases of 4 substituted tryptamines with oil burners. The effects were immediate, much stronger, and much shorter. Using needles sounds dangerous and complicated. How is IM/IV administration better?

 

[Philosoraptor]

Why is it that no one ever provides credible references when bringing up the injection/bacteria issue. A concept of the different levels of bacteria and their corresponding risks? People are always just like 'oh my god, bacteria!' I hope you realize that there are various antibacterial elements in nature, such as the sun. A spring is not a stew of bacteria. In a documentary on food, one particular farmer who slaughtered his chickens outside scored in a lower bacterial count for his working environment than conventional indoor farms. Bacteriostatic water sounds like a frivolous joke to me. How much better is it than purified water treated with boiling? As I said, I just use spring water and I don't even boil it and I've never gotten an infection (the bottling company may boil it, however).

And what about adding a small amount of iodine to the water. I think using iodine for emergency, on-the-go water sanitizing accomplishes a concentration of about one microgram per milliliter (and the RDA of iodine is 150 mcg). Iodine kicks ass: http://blankrefer.com/?http://ehs.research.uiowa.edu/826-iodine-and-iodophors

If you think I even need a credible reference to defend the fact that injecting bottle water is stupid then so be it.

Keep on injecting that bottle water lol. Meanwhile I will continue using cheap pharmaceutical grade bacteriostatic water.