Nandrolone with anti-prolactin: dry and hard, or still wet???

A

AA357

Bluelighter
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Jul 19, 2014
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Hi,

I'm currently on week 11 of a 15-week Equipoise/Test E cycle (600mg/375mg). I kickstarted the cycle with Anavar (75mg/day for the first 6 weeks).
This is my first AAS cycle. For months I was feeling beat up all the time and my joints were constantly aching. I decided on EQ and Anavar because they have a positive effect on collagen synthesis and are well known for producing quality, keepable gains in strength and LBM.

So far so good. My joints feel much better, my strength is up and my body composition has really improved.

On paper, nandrolone looks quite similar to boldenone. Conversion to estrogen is similarly low, androgenic sides are low and it's great for joints/collagen synthesis. But unlike boldenone - and despite low conversion to estrogen - nandrolone causes a lot of water retention.
It's also notorious for causing impotence and gynecomastia; which appear to be prolactin-related as these can be avoided by using a dopamine agonist like cabergoline or pramipexole. It is my understanding that nandrolone increases prolactin levels via its interaction with the progesterone receptor.

My question is this: in addition to treating nandrolone-related impotence and gyno, do prolactin inhibiting drugs also counteract the water retention? With the right amount of caber or prami and a maybe a little Arimidex for good luck; would the gains be more boldenone-like in quality (dry, lean and vascular)?

I am very happy with this EQ/Test E/Anavar combination and I will definitely be using it again for my next cycle, but I would like to throw in a little Deca (300-500mg per week).

Thanks.
 
Deca takes a while to start noticing anything, dopamine agonists are overrated IMO. I've ran 19-nors(even stacked, tren+deca) with never needing one so it's completely up to the person. Deca didn't bloat me up as long as I was keeping my estrogen in check, much easier to control verses say running dbol. I prefer aromasin for e control. And libido was fine on deca. It's the horror stories of guys who cycle coming off and deca lingering in there system for months causing their dicks not to work. As long as you're blasting and cruising you should be fine, if you're cycling I would advise against using deca.

I have ran prami before and it did increase my refractory periods, but I didn't get bloodwork before running it so there's no way of knowing if my prolactin was high or not. It is most certainly a weird drug though. Made me very impulsive and just do weird shit..
 
First up, that was an excessive amount for a first cycle. You could have achieved probably identical results with just the Test to be honest.

Anyway, you've done it now, so that's moot. But for your next cycle, do less and don't frontload anything. Frontloading is possibly the single most self-defeating thing that AAS-using bodybuilders do. No offence meant to you at all, but really, it's a retarded practice and needs to be banished along with Celltech and other overrated stuff.

On to your other questions; all steroids generally raise PRL, some moreso than others (eg tren) and mostly related to the beneficial effect of elevating GH/IGF. All steroids also appear to elevate collagen synthesis, so I wouldn't pick one or the other on that basis.

However deca is a nightmare to recover from, thanks to metabolites that can last in the body for up to 6-12 months after you've finished the cycle. My advice would be to not use it for now; hold off until you've decided you really want to spend a good few years using AAS, at which point the HPTA shutdown issue won't be such a big deal.

Instead, since you like EQ, and after a nice long break, make your next cycle 15 wks:

Week 1-2: 125mg Test, 200mg EQ
Week 3-4: 150mg Test, 250mg EQ
Week 5-6: 175mg Test, 300mg EQ
Week 7-8: 200mg Test, 350mg EQ
Week 9-10: 225mg Test, 400mg EQ
Week 11-12: 250mg Test, 400mg EQ
Week 13-15: 100mg Test, 0mg EQ

Use a low-dose aromatase inhibitor throughout to hold oestrogen down a bit.
No need for prami or anything else. No need for a PCT with this either.
Simple and easy.
 
CFC said:
Frontloading is possibly the single most self-defeating thing that AAS-using bodybuilders do. No offence meant to you at all, but really, it's a retarded practice and needs to be banished along with Celltech and other overrated stuff.
.
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Interesting comments CFC.. I've stated many times why I believe frontloading is counterproductive, what's your reasoning..?
 
Genetic Freak said:
Interesting comments CFC.. I've stated many times why I believe frontloading is counterproductive, what's your reasoning..?
Click to expand...

Homeostatsis mate. I've discussed it before on here, albeit not in much depth, so beware, long post to follow!

***

Sorry post was so long I was mangling up this dude's thread so I've created another thread to answer it instead GF.
 
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I've never really understood the concept of front loading. It kicks in when it kicks in, why go through the roller coaster of hormones?


I have used prop the first 2-3 weeks along with enanthate to notice effects sooner(kept doses the same ultimately in conjunction), but once the enanthate kicked in I adjusted the dose accordingly. Haven't done that in a while now though, I'm more patient lol.
 
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To be fair, it 'kicks in' on day one, even with long esters. But it's understandable that people only think it's working by the time they notice visible changes.
 
That's what I'm referring to. Once appetite is increased, libido, pumps, strength etc.
 
Yeah I get you. As you say, it's about having enough patience, rather than expecting overnight changes. It gets easier once you've done loads of cycles and realise this rush rush rush for instant gains is completely pointless in the long run.
 
Intense said:
Deca takes a while to start noticing anything, dopamine agonists are overrated IMO. I've ran 19-nors(even stacked, tren+deca) with never needing one so it's completely up to the person. Deca didn't bloat me up as long as I was keeping my estrogen in check, much easier to control verses say running dbol. I prefer aromasin for e control. And libido was fine on deca. It's the horror stories of guys who cycle coming off and deca lingering in there system for months causing their dicks not to work. As long as you're blasting and cruising you should be fine, if you're cycling I would advise against using deca.
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Interesting... so despite nandrolone's low conversion to estrogen; you find that the bloat is caused by estrogen? This can only mean that nandrolone aromatises into a particularly powerful form of estrogen.
And thanks for your advice re: cycling deca. TBH I’m not too bothered about long-term suppression though; I’ll be 28 by the time I finish my next cycle and I plan on starting TRT when I hit 30 anyway.


Anyone else have any advice on controlling nandrolone-related bloat? Do prami/caber do anything at all for this, or are they only good for treating gyro and deca dick?


Thanks.
 
AA357 said:

Interesting... so despite nandrolone's low conversion to estrogen; you find that the bloat is caused by estrogen? This can only mean that nandrolone aromatises into a particularly powerful form of estrogen.
And thanks for your advice re: cycling deca. TBH I’m not too bothered about long-term suppression though; I’ll be 28 by the time I finish my next cycle and I plan on starting TRT when I hit 30 anyway.


Anyone else have any advice on controlling nandrolone-related bloat? Do prami/caber do anything at all for this, or are they only good for treating gyro and deca dick?


Thanks.
Click to expand...

Lower the dose or don't use it, if bloat is an issue...

What do you think is the difference between AAS induced skeletal muscle hypertrophy and bloat..?

You shouldn't be introducing D2 agonists... Alter your cycle as side effects present, or preferably design a side effect free cycle...
 
Isn't there also the fact that some estrogen/testosterone is produced via other pathways that aren't connected with testicular production of testosterone and llhs levels and probably aren't that susceptible to shut down? So even if nandrolone doesn't aromatise much and the resulting estrogen analog isn't that potent on it's own it might potentiate small levels of natural e2 and cause estrogenic side effects that way

As for the time required for something to kick in, you have to remember that the hormone first has to do a lot of things (...
 
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First, I agree with others that you are using way too much for your first cycle! This is why it's no important for newbies to ask, ask, ask before starting a cycle.
Second, why kick start with var?? Start with dbol or even better, tbol! You save the var for the end of the cycle to harden up your gains.
Third, I would run the EQ minimum 16 weeks as you really notice best gains late in the cycle. Of course this being your first cycle you'll make fantastic gains regardless.
Your obviously not switching to deca this cycle rather you're asking about it for the future cycle, correct?
Take some time off when you finish this current cycle and when you start deca don't go crazy that's how the sides come. You can take low dose prami if you are concerned about prolactin. Some guys don't take anti e's because they are not gyno prone or they are on low doses. Others take low doses and grow tits!
Remember, EQ increases rbc's and your heart may have to work harder. Get blood work and donate blood if needed!
 
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