frying_panDA
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2019
- Messages
- 2
Ill start by giving a brief background of my situation in the hope that my primary question will be answered in the correct context. I am a long time reader of bluelight, and have done extensive research on the topic I'm about to ask about (even to the point of delving into a few doctoral dissertations). I have taken Vivitrol before in an effort to stay clean from opiates. I am currently taking 50mg of Naltrexone PO QD. I have ceased the use of ethanol for 32 days now, and the only other medication I am taking is 2mg of Risperidone BID (which is a non-factor due to long term use). I am well versed in the pharmacology of Nalterxone, and its mechanism of action; So, if responding please have a degree of specificity and detail to your answer. I have been unable to find an accurate answer through my research, and tend to be exponentially more knowledge on the subject than my prescribing physician, and any rehabilitation staff I have interacted with. Furthermore I am fully aware of my normal PAWS due to prior episodes of sobriety. The main source of pleasure in my life has come from my artwork, I have partook in it on a nearly daily basis my entire life, and derive great pleasure and sense of confidence from it. Post-detox i engaged in many activities that I normally do not have interest in such as volleyball, puzzles, and ceramics (out of necessity, due to a lack of activities I normally partake in). The prior statement is baseline testament to motivation in a general sense. Please note that if any questions are necessary to properly respond I am more than willing to answer them. I have tried to keep any inclusion of neurobiology, and pharmacology to a minimum in the event that someone without such knowledge has insight or experience on the issue. Much of the literature on the issue is distributed by persons or organizations that simply regurgitate information with minimal insight. So here goes.
Since my cessation of ETOH (ethanol), 32 days ago all of my PAWS have subsided to the extent that they are non detectable, or only occur intermittently, with the exception of lack of motivation. I'm attempting to convey a unique sense of anhedonia, beyond what is a normal post acute withdrawal symptom. I am using the word 'motivation' in a general sense, akin to 'craving'. My craving for drugs in theory, and common sense, would have a similar working as any motivation for an activity i enjoy that create pleasure. Glutimate is being sent down from my frontal cortex, euphoric recall ensues (at a much lower level than drug use), my hedonic threshold is reached, dopamine is released, and various actions occur from my nucleus accumbens, to the end of my mesolimbic system. Obviously my brain stem is not involved with art, given it has not become a survival mechanism, as with chemicals. Given that the mechanism of action, of Naltrexone, is blocking the release of dopamine and interfering with ones hedonic threshold in the mesolimbic system, I have become concerned. I am unable to find a definitive answer as to whether endogenous opiates such as endorphins, are blocked by LDN (low dose Naltrexone), given the binding efficacy (nm/ki) of Naltrexone and various endogenous opiates, logic would dictate that endorphins would be rendered useless. My concern comes from the fact that endorphins (and dopamine for that matter) are released during many daily activities such as exercise or sexual encounters. Furthermore, the fact that Naltrexone is now being used in the management of weight indicates that its mechanism of action goes well beyond endogenous opiates into a broader mechanism of inhibiting dopamine release. While in inpatient rehabilitation, my motivation to engage in my artwork came back. Once I left inpatient rehabilitation (T-140h), I started my LDN regiment and my motivation for my artwork (among other things, including sex) objectively declined. This causes me much despair. The entire reason I've chosen to entertain sobriety was to reclaim the ability to engage in these activities. (Sorry for the in-depth post but its required) Next, I preformed a less than empirical experiment today that brought about this post. As a preface I have been doing well in my recovery with the exception of this issue (again, determined not to be a post acute withdrawal symptom at this point). Without any cravings and a slightly reduced tolerance, and to dispel the thought of my lack of motivation being a PAWS, I have consumed 60ml of ETOH, which is roughly 8% of my average consumption and just enough for threshold effects, if one was not ingesting Naltrexone. At [T+45m] the aforementioned issue has not resolved itself. This would lead one to believe that the normal pleasure derived from ones artwork has been derailed by the only active varibale, 50mg of Naltrexone HCl QD. With the risk of sounding crude, this idea has been reinforced by prior [T-24h]/[T-36h] "experiments" with masturbation, and excessive exercise. This is by no means empirical evidence, and being an autodidact I have no formal education on the topic, despite being a pseudo-authority on it.
A synopsis of what I am trying to gain knowledge on would include whether Naltrexones mechanism of action goes beyond dopamine release exclusively created by endorphin binding, the mechanism of action that (supposedly) allows LDN to be effective for weight loss (indicating an effect beyond endorphins), and whether or not my experience is singular (in the context i have described). Naltrexone has been extremely helpful in my journey, but recovery without ambition defeats the entire purpose. Again, any questions are encouraged, and I would encourage anyone whom responds to include the full breadth and specificity of their knowledge. Again I must stress that in the interest of appealing a wider audience, I have reduced the amount of scientific nomenclature, anything in a response that happens to be beyond the current scope of my knowledge will be thoroughly researched and understood. Thank you to all that have read this, it is of paramount concern to me.
Since my cessation of ETOH (ethanol), 32 days ago all of my PAWS have subsided to the extent that they are non detectable, or only occur intermittently, with the exception of lack of motivation. I'm attempting to convey a unique sense of anhedonia, beyond what is a normal post acute withdrawal symptom. I am using the word 'motivation' in a general sense, akin to 'craving'. My craving for drugs in theory, and common sense, would have a similar working as any motivation for an activity i enjoy that create pleasure. Glutimate is being sent down from my frontal cortex, euphoric recall ensues (at a much lower level than drug use), my hedonic threshold is reached, dopamine is released, and various actions occur from my nucleus accumbens, to the end of my mesolimbic system. Obviously my brain stem is not involved with art, given it has not become a survival mechanism, as with chemicals. Given that the mechanism of action, of Naltrexone, is blocking the release of dopamine and interfering with ones hedonic threshold in the mesolimbic system, I have become concerned. I am unable to find a definitive answer as to whether endogenous opiates such as endorphins, are blocked by LDN (low dose Naltrexone), given the binding efficacy (nm/ki) of Naltrexone and various endogenous opiates, logic would dictate that endorphins would be rendered useless. My concern comes from the fact that endorphins (and dopamine for that matter) are released during many daily activities such as exercise or sexual encounters. Furthermore, the fact that Naltrexone is now being used in the management of weight indicates that its mechanism of action goes well beyond endogenous opiates into a broader mechanism of inhibiting dopamine release. While in inpatient rehabilitation, my motivation to engage in my artwork came back. Once I left inpatient rehabilitation (T-140h), I started my LDN regiment and my motivation for my artwork (among other things, including sex) objectively declined. This causes me much despair. The entire reason I've chosen to entertain sobriety was to reclaim the ability to engage in these activities. (Sorry for the in-depth post but its required) Next, I preformed a less than empirical experiment today that brought about this post. As a preface I have been doing well in my recovery with the exception of this issue (again, determined not to be a post acute withdrawal symptom at this point). Without any cravings and a slightly reduced tolerance, and to dispel the thought of my lack of motivation being a PAWS, I have consumed 60ml of ETOH, which is roughly 8% of my average consumption and just enough for threshold effects, if one was not ingesting Naltrexone. At [T+45m] the aforementioned issue has not resolved itself. This would lead one to believe that the normal pleasure derived from ones artwork has been derailed by the only active varibale, 50mg of Naltrexone HCl QD. With the risk of sounding crude, this idea has been reinforced by prior [T-24h]/[T-36h] "experiments" with masturbation, and excessive exercise. This is by no means empirical evidence, and being an autodidact I have no formal education on the topic, despite being a pseudo-authority on it.
A synopsis of what I am trying to gain knowledge on would include whether Naltrexones mechanism of action goes beyond dopamine release exclusively created by endorphin binding, the mechanism of action that (supposedly) allows LDN to be effective for weight loss (indicating an effect beyond endorphins), and whether or not my experience is singular (in the context i have described). Naltrexone has been extremely helpful in my journey, but recovery without ambition defeats the entire purpose. Again, any questions are encouraged, and I would encourage anyone whom responds to include the full breadth and specificity of their knowledge. Again I must stress that in the interest of appealing a wider audience, I have reduced the amount of scientific nomenclature, anything in a response that happens to be beyond the current scope of my knowledge will be thoroughly researched and understood. Thank you to all that have read this, it is of paramount concern to me.
