My Thoughts On 25i and other NBOMES

[cultural aesthetic]

Hello first post been reading here a long time and would like to share my thoughts on these chemicals.%) Okay to business

I have found and read these compounds get a lot of flame and i don't really understand why as i find 25i(the only one i have tried) a decent compound. I understand its not the safest compound in history but there are much worse things out there for you and what mind altering chemical is 100% safe?.

Problems with nbomes
1. Getting dose right
2. The fact that commercially available blotters are dosed too strong 1.2mg is a strong dose
3.people are expecting a LSD experience get this and are disappointed
4 unsafe combinations
5 preexisting physical problems


This may seem like a lot but pretty much all of them are avoidable and if this was the case people may actually enjoy the nbome compounds safely as the do provide a unique experience and are very visually rich, stimulating and somewhat euphoric. People that are expecting LSD that are disappointed with Nbome i understand why you were expecting a mind bending mystical experience which you did not receive but if you enjoyed this compounds for what they are you may enjoy it.

Final thing people have died from these chemicals and to my understanding most of them were overdoses minus one case that required hospitalization from a lower dose such adverse reactions may not have happened of blotters were not dosed so high and a theory i have is that nbome and possibly other phens deplete various essential vitamins causing a host of problems maybe Nbomes especially. maybe if eliminating above problems not including 5 and 3 they maybe safer than they currently are.

Thanks and i would like to hear you views and what not on the matter and if you think they are all really unsafe i want to hear your reasons why so i can possibly inform and educate myself how to make use safer.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

NBOMes are full agonists at single receptors generally though. What makes other psychs inherently safer is that they are not full agonists at any one receptor, thus not overloading any of them. I'll agree that 25i is damn fun, I've done it three times... but on my third trip, I had an overwhelming sense of toxicity that I have not experienced on any other compound. That was enough for me to get rid of the rest of my blotters and never look back. Plus, that horrid, horrid taste... it never goes away during the trip. How can one want to deal with that when no other psychs present such a nasty tasting problem?

In short, they don't do anything better that other, safer compounds could do for you instead, so why take the risk?

 

[nuube]

I've had a couple of trips on 25C and 25I and a couple using the two together, I enjoyed all trips and did not notice any difficulties. Both were blotters and neither were excessively high doses.

I imagine that any pre-existing complaint should be considered before doing any substance. LSD may not be cardio-toxic but a bad trip and anxiety will push the heart rate up and cause problems.

 

[One Thousand Words]

You simply don't die from LSD. Bad trips are unpleasant sure, and the risk of dying from doing dumb shit is greater, but the safety margin for misadventure is high.

Before 25i it was almost unheard of that a tripper would go into a cardiac arrest and die

 

[Cream Gravy?]

^Truly a new era of drug use we live in eh...

 

[nuube]

You simply don't die from LSD. Bad trips are unpleasant sure, and the risk of dying from doing dumb shit is greater, but the safety margin for misadventure is high.

Before 25i it was almost unheard of that a tripper would go into a cardiac arrest and die

Is it high if doses are kept reasonable and proper Harm Reduction techniques are applied? I would have thought that many RC's carry risks if used incorrectly but if proper caution taken they are relatively safe, (I do appreciate that there can always be someone who reacts badly to any substance)?

 

[Cream Gravy?]

^I mean. The risks from something like 4-CMC, 3-MMC or other new stims are greater than classic stim RCs such as ethylphenidate or methylone and whatnot, simply because they have a toxic nature inherent to their structure. The same applies to NBOMes over the classic psych RCs such as 4-ACO-DMT or 2C-B which have good therapeutic margins and more history, while NBOMes receptor selectivity, lack of history, and proneness to inducing seizures make their safety margin much lower.

Some drugs are simply more dangerous than others. Not all drugs are created equal.

 

[nuube]

^I mean. The risks from something like 4-CMC, 3-MMC or other new stims are greater than classic stim RCs such as ethylphenidate or methylone and whatnot, simply because they have a toxic nature inherent to their structure. The same applies to NBOMes over the classic psych RCs such as 4-ACO-DMT or 2C-B which have good therapeutic margins and more history, while NBOMes receptor selectivity, lack of history, and proneness to inducing seizures make their safety margin much lower.

Some drugs are simply more dangerous than others. Not all drugs are created equal.

Very true, and indeed not every drug is as safe each time - see all the OD's and deaths when a pure batch of Heroin hits the streets.

 

[cultural aesthetic]

Nbomes are not the only psychedelics to cause seizures. Seizures is usually caused by massive overdoses of psychedelics with the exception of tryptamines. 2ci has caused seizures and im only aware of one case of LSD doing so. However I won't deny the fact that 25i has the most cases and also within a short time period. 25i and DOI are the only full agonists it could be just the iodo phens Inparticular have a tendency to cause seizures. Btw great discussion guys

 

[seth_7re]

^ Interesting theory you have there! In further exploring this idea one may find it relevant knowledge that iodine directly correlates with thyroid function/levels. Medicines or foods with excess amounts of Iodine might cause hypothyroidism or hyperthyroidism in people who are more sensitive or susceptible..... Hypothyroidism - focal seizures Hyperthyroidism - seizures I am no biochemist but it dosn't seem like that far of a leap to hypothesize that thyroid levels may be the biological culprit as far as a why a large dose of whichever iodo phenethylamine resulted in a seizure....... Thoughts from those better educated in this field?

 

[cultural aesthetic]

Interesting i have a extension on that idea. What ive found with Nbomes 25i especially. it seems some are more susceptible to seizures than others as some have taken stupid doses without this occurring. I think there are many factors that increase the risk of seizures with nbomes hyperthyroidism(as you have stated), depleted vitamins (potassium especially) and that the nbomes are active at adrenoreceptors. I have a hypothesis with elevated levels of t3 and t4 from hyperthyroidism plus activity at adrenoreceptors causes some sort of uncontrolled neuron activity. Both adrenorecptor agonists and t3 and t4 tend to both speed up brain function causing a seizure. Scenario two where one dose not have hyperthyroidism low blood concentrations alone causes seizures plus the activity at adrenorecptor just increases that risk. Plain overdoses of any psychedelic causes seizures but not to the extent of 25i.

i am by no means a expert on biology

 

[seth_7re]

Really all we can assume from the information we discussed in this thread thus far if anything is that the likeleyhood of having a reaction to psychedelics (specifically iodo phenethylamines for the purpose of this perticular discussion) involving seizures and the levels of substance that result in them is nothing close to an exact science, and not only relies on the individual but is likely also variable to that individual based on intake and activities prior to and during the trip. Research i have been reading through warns repeatedly about those at risk of hypo/hyperthyroidism about being mindful of foods/medications/and fluids containing iodine and i have also come across several documents pointing towards monitering iodine intake as a means of identifiying people succeptable to hypo/hyperthyroidism.

Just for the purpose of example a person ill refer to as M is a likely candidate for hypo/hyperthyroidism but is unaware as he has not encountered any symptoms that would have led to any medical testing involving thyroid yet. M has a sheet of 25I 1000mcg tabs on the first trial he goes balls to the wall and gum's 5 tabs and has a great trip with no issues and no adverse after effect beyond what the average joe would encounter. Several weeks later M trips again this time looking for a lighter experience he only gums 3.5 tabs and ends up having a seizure. The key difference is that he dosed after lunch which that day he ate a baked potato skin included and 2 cuts of fish served with seaweed loading the whole plate down with iodized salt which he had just then opened unaware that it would help bring about a siezure as the last salt M had finished off the previous night had been non iodized. that morning M had also decided to take a couple potassium pills as he had expirienced some muscle cramps during the night, but although it was no trigger for alarm as far as he knew then it was specifically potassium iodied, also 2 days prior he went to see his phisician for something unrelated the result of which was M requireing an internal iodine radio mapping procedure. All these iodine increceing factors combined with a significantly smaller 25I dose and boom siezure. tho this theoretical person consumed a larger dose in the near past he did not have all the iodine heavy foods and meds present with his second dose which in this scenario combine and produce an extreme negative response to a smaller dose.

I'm confidant like cultural aesthetic said there are other conditions or sorces that might result in someone being more succeptable to siezures that are triggered by excess or depletion of different vitamins, minerals, elements, or supplements. I am not able to do the research rn but for some reason zinc stands out in my head. regardless if you find youself succeptable to siezures, and I'm sure anyone would do whatever research possible to determine the chemical triggers, it cand be unwise to be concious of the nature of whatever chemicals one might use specifically elemental structure. One might be surprised at what devils are hidden in which detailes.

I really hope somone else can chime in with additional reasons and causes of siezures that might be highly affected by certain psychs specifically ones that develope as a result of excess or deficiency of certain chemicals in the body and brain. I have a friend (and i really do mean a friend) who has seizures that seem to almost be directly resulting from certain psycs. As in they only occour immediatly following dosing on certain psychs, some of these psychs have been followed by a siezure at every single expirience in the past few years...... Thoughts?

 

[SteamboatBillJr]

thyroid [iodine] levels may be the culprit as far as a why a large dose of whichever iodo phenethylamine resulted in a seizure....... Thoughts from those better educated in this field?

Since you started the discussion lets not get this confused. Wikipeida says "The Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) for adults is 1,100 μg/day (1.1 mg/day)" of iodine if consumed regularly. The tolerable single exposure dose is probably much higher. Even at extremely high doses of 25i-NBMOe iodine poisoning isn't possible. In most people NBOMe drug toxicity is strongly correlated with rhabdomyolysis in the medical journals.

people have died from these chemicals and to my understanding most of them were overdoses minus one case that required hospitalization from a lower dose

Multiple people died from small doses of NBOMe drugs. Look at these links.

PubMed
Medical Journals

25I-NBOMe (2C-I-NBOMe)
Fatalities / Deaths

Other or Unknown NBOMe Compound
Fatalities / Deaths

 

[seth_7re]

again not a biochemist but i wasnt really talking iodine poisoning but rather in those people with pre existing thyroid conditions who's medications often include iodine its my understanding that with said certain thyroid conditions it is imperitive that one moniter ones iodine intake as far as with meals and other vitamins. so I guess im not really suggesting 25I as the cause but the possibility that some cases might be related to hypothyroidism brought on by too much iodine in too short of a timeframe from a combination of 25i and iodine heavy foods in aomeone who may already be succeptable to thyroid problems or hypothyroididm. its my understanding that thyroid is directly corraletive with iodine intake. Could this not be a possible explanation? Thank you for the links steamboatbilljr certainly helps remove some speculation do you know of any similar links but involving tryptomines rather than nbome's?