So basically traded addictions, from Percs and Vicodin to subs. Since October I've been using . Never over 4 mg a day. Fast forward to theses past two weeks. April 9 2mg sub, April 10-11 no sub. Only about 65 mg Vicodin those days . April 12 2mg sub at 9pm. April 13 2.5mg sub morning. April 14 no opiates , april 15 75 mg Vicodin. April 16 40 mg Vicodin . Today April 17 no opiates . So my question is since I feel really shitty . Am I still wd'ing from sub? Or is it the Vicodin? Tuesday will be 5 days off sub. I imagine there can't be hardly any sub in my system. Especially with 51 hour break last week. But man I definitely can't sleep and have 0 motivation or energy. I didn't get out of bed today. I have an extremely fast metabolism!! I am male 5'7" 140lbs. Thin. Can some veterans shed light on my situation.
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BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
My suboxone kick
- Thread starter percojerk
- Start date
With opiate WD its not an either/or situation, you are WDing from opiates, period. It' not a question of which opiate are you WDing from. And the whole "detox" paradigm is flawed, you don't feel better when there is no drug in your system, that is when you feel the worst, and only then can you begin to feel better, slowly.
This means that short half life drug WDs are going to be over faster, because its once you reach zero that you really start improving...but it also means they are going to come on quicker and possibly be more intense.(I say possibly, because even with a long half life and low action potential bupe is REALLY potent, so it can have intense WDs, but they will come on, and leave, more slowly) It's this reason that a lot of people taper down to as low a dose of bupe as possible, preferably <.5mg, take a day off(or 2 if you can handle it), then take low doses of hydrocodone for 1 or 2 days before calling it quits. And it really helps to get some benzos or z-drugs for the first few nights with no opiates, because even after you don't feel like dying anymore I know how hard it is to sleep and the lack of sleep maginifies everything, if you can get 2 solid nights sleep after stopping it'll make you feel sooooo much better.
This means that short half life drug WDs are going to be over faster, because its once you reach zero that you really start improving...but it also means they are going to come on quicker and possibly be more intense.(I say possibly, because even with a long half life and low action potential bupe is REALLY potent, so it can have intense WDs, but they will come on, and leave, more slowly) It's this reason that a lot of people taper down to as low a dose of bupe as possible, preferably <.5mg, take a day off(or 2 if you can handle it), then take low doses of hydrocodone for 1 or 2 days before calling it quits. And it really helps to get some benzos or z-drugs for the first few nights with no opiates, because even after you don't feel like dying anymore I know how hard it is to sleep and the lack of sleep maginifies everything, if you can get 2 solid nights sleep after stopping it'll make you feel sooooo much better.
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I've been through a few kicks before . I was just really paranoid of this sub kick. No opiates yesterday and don't see any coming today. I imagine the sub is completely out of my system. I feel ok energy wise from the help of adderall. I did not sleep at all last night . Even with 3 mg ativans. I have so many other issues in my life right now , I wish I wasn't dealing with this kick at the moment. And thank you for your support and words.
If you are trying to stay clean for good this time you may not want to do this, or you may even if you are. But if you just need to buy some time before you can get more, or you need to work and aren't feeling up to it, get some kratom, if you need it now you can get it at a headshop but its more economical to get it online. It will stop WD of almost any habit in high enough doses, and in your situation where your tolerance is down from recent days off/low use days it can have you feeling perfectly normal(or better if you take enough)
But its not a miracle cure, kratom has WD just like any opiate and at high enough doses they will be just as bad, but kratom as plant matter is weak gram for gram(the alkaloids within are actually quite potent) so for me it was easier to take just enough to cover WD symptoms without overdoing it and taking a step backwards. Or instead of taking it go get thrugh work you could take some before bed to try to help you sleep, but for this I recommend a red vein variety as they are the least stimulating ime, try just a couple grams a couple an hour or two before bed and see how you feel before taking more, 3g-6g seems to be the sweet spot if your tolerance isn't too high, but you will still have some WD even from that amount, 2g or less and basically no WD. Just stay away from extracts. But if self control is an issue you may want to stay away because it will be readily available all the time and it isn't as hard as you think to work your way up to over an oz a day.(or even an oz a dose) And redosing is the enemy, if you do end up re-dosing take just a tiny amount, like 1/4 of what you originally took, not the same amount or even half.
But if staying clean just isn't a choice, and the choice is between suboxone, pharms/heroin, or kratom, go buy some kratom. If you do get it at a headshop itll often already be capsuled up, .5g per capsule, try taking 2, waiting an hour then take 1 every half hour until you feel OK...the key is to take just enough to feel just OK then stop. Especially if you are trying to use it just for sleep, you don't want to take so much that you wake up in worse WD than you would have.
But its not a miracle cure, kratom has WD just like any opiate and at high enough doses they will be just as bad, but kratom as plant matter is weak gram for gram(the alkaloids within are actually quite potent) so for me it was easier to take just enough to cover WD symptoms without overdoing it and taking a step backwards. Or instead of taking it go get thrugh work you could take some before bed to try to help you sleep, but for this I recommend a red vein variety as they are the least stimulating ime, try just a couple grams a couple an hour or two before bed and see how you feel before taking more, 3g-6g seems to be the sweet spot if your tolerance isn't too high, but you will still have some WD even from that amount, 2g or less and basically no WD. Just stay away from extracts. But if self control is an issue you may want to stay away because it will be readily available all the time and it isn't as hard as you think to work your way up to over an oz a day.(or even an oz a dose) And redosing is the enemy, if you do end up re-dosing take just a tiny amount, like 1/4 of what you originally took, not the same amount or even half.
But if staying clean just isn't a choice, and the choice is between suboxone, pharms/heroin, or kratom, go buy some kratom. If you do get it at a headshop itll often already be capsuled up, .5g per capsule, try taking 2, waiting an hour then take 1 every half hour until you feel OK...the key is to take just enough to feel just OK then stop. Especially if you are trying to use it just for sleep, you don't want to take so much that you wake up in worse WD than you would have.
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kingshawaiian
Greenlighter
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- Apr 18, 2017
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I second the kratom recommendation.
I have heard of Kratom before, but I never really thought about it. I can already tell I won't be getting sleep tonight. I am from the northeast so I guess a headshop or online , thing is , main reason I am kicking is I quit my job last month and I am broke . Today was a long boring day . Dealing with withdrawals and no support system at home sucks. I just gotta keep pushing ahead . The lack of energy , restless legs , insomnia, boredom is really adding to the normal every day stress of living with an unbearable person and being broke !!
kingshawaiian
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2017
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- 41
I feel you, it is truly awful to go through D:
Stoner_420
Bluelighter
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- Nov 8, 2015
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- 164
hang in there bro. its weird, because im withdrawling off subs and vicodin right now too, my last sub dose was saturday of 2 mg saturday, given i was only on it 3 months when i could get it so i was on it half a month at a time. I would dose oxy or hydro if i couldnt get sub. im 26 hours into vicodin or sub wd idk which one lol, i feel ok besides the sneezing constantly, diarrhea, RLS OMG DRIVES ME NUTS, and insomnia which is a real pain in the but. hang in there bro, we can do this together!!!! keep in touch
Stoner_420
Bluelighter
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- Nov 8, 2015
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- 164
sorry forgot to metion some reason im not having any cold chills. could the sub still be on my receptors after almost 5 days? ive been addicted to pills for 4 years
Stoner thanks for the input. I am on day 6, of completely NO subs, and 3 days since no Vicodin . Sunday was last Vicodin dose . Thur morning was last sub dose of about 2-3 mg. I am in full blown withdrawal. But like you , I have no idea from what . The sub, or the Vicodin. I have 0 energy. 0 motivation. Haven't slept more then a total of 4-5 hours in 3 days. Craving opiates so bad , thinking of not so smart thoughts !! Anyway we can kick this together!! I am in east coast. It's 7:37 pm here.
Stoner_420
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2015
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i slipped up tonight even though it was a small dose for me of 15 mg of vicodin, still a mess up. im starting over tomorrow, i always tault younger, "if you fall get back up", i made it 40 hours from hydro and 5 days without sub. had a chance to get subs, but screw subs they are worst then classic opiate pain killers IMO. if your like me tapering is not happening me being a drug addict ill just want more even though suboxone has a ceiling affect. so tomorrow is day 6 no sub. not doing anymore hydro or anything for that matter. how you doing bro? hang in there and dont slip like I did, it will be well worth it. i am also on the east coast its 2:25 am. keep in touch bro im still in this with you, happy 420 
Ok so just an update. I am on day 7 of no subs, 4 day no opiates at all. I still feel a little crappy. It's afternoon here . I did force myself today to get up and do laundry and shower . I also went out to get a coffee. I am still restless. Still have 0 energy. My time and dose of subs weren't bad I don't think. When the hell will I feel normal !! Just to add , I did sleep a little last night . Maybe 4 hours total.
Update . So guys today was day 8 of no subs....... until this afternoon. I basically begged someone I knew for a piece of sub . It was about 1 mg . I feel way better. I felt awful today. Yesterday I actually felt ok. Today I just was craving like crazy, anxiety, depressed, restless, and the worst was literally having 0 energy to get up !! I feel bad I took this sub, I hope it doesn't reset the clock and send my withdrawal back to day 1. If anything I was hoping it would help me get past these last days of the whole kicking sub thing. What do you guys think ?
So I need an opinion. This battle is really hard. I don't need this problem in addition to the other stress in my life, but hey, I am an addict . So last Friday I told you guys I took a piece of a sub for the first time in 9 days. I was still withdrawing at that point . After the piece, I felt normal . Even a little buzz. So with the energy I had , I was motivated to clean the house . To my shock and amazement, I found 1 8mg sub!!! This was friday evening. There was no need to take any of it because I took the piece, about 1.5mg from a friend earlier . So now the next day Saturday I was going to take a piece of the sub but I didn't because i came across some norco. My whole thing is I wanted to clean my system and get past sub withdrawal. Refer to the beginning of this thread for info. So Saturday the whole day I did only about 60 of Vicodin. The next day , Sunday I did about 35mg of Vicodin . And that's the end of the Vicodin . By that time , this is important to note , I did about 1.5 mg of sub in a 10 day time period . So the next day , Monday 4/24 I started to nibble off that 1 8mg sub I have . About 1mg. Yesterday the 25th I did about 1-2mg. And today I did about the same . So I still have a half of that sub. So tomorrow I was not sure what to do . I want to have no or little withdrawal. Tomorrow in 2 whole weeks I would have basically have done about 4-4.5mg of subs . I just want to know you guys' thoughts. Am I in the clear if I flush this last half down the Sink? Should I keep it in case I feel WD's? Will there be any WD's if I stop ? How severe ? Wasn't my 9 day from subs enough to practically be done with my sub withdrawal? That Friday I was STILL hurting ... my habit wasn't big or for more then 6 months . Subs are the devil in disguise.... please respond.
Well I was hoping to get some feedback . Ironically today I have an appointment with my general practitioner. I did take a very very small piece of sub this morning. It's just amazing how small of a piece makes a HUGE difference on how the human body feels . I want to me NOT dependent on this chemical . Hopefully when there is no more to nibble off of this 1 sub tablet , I won't feel the way I did a few weeks , or even a week ago . Just an FYI , my doctor visit is only a follow up from an appointment 6 months ago. I have to keep in his good graces , he's the one who prescribes me my klonopins . A low dose, only 1mg twice a day , but I am sure I am physically addicted. Been at that dose for about 2 years almost . I don't abuse my benzo's and never run out early . But if I ever did, I heard that's a whole different animal as far as withdrawal goes
I've heard about mixing the tablet with a little water and using a dropper to make "micro doses". I haven't made it that far, but you might want to look around the forum and see if its worth trying.
Good luck to you and hang in there. You've made it a long way!
Good luck to you and hang in there. You've made it a long way!