Opioids My Loperamide Detox Experiment - Advice/Wisdom Welcome <3

[MissAmazingRachel]

Hey y'all,

I posted my situation in the Loperamide Mega Thread, but, figured I'd post my actual experiment here.

To make another long story short -- I injured my shoulder in '06, screwed around with opiate pain meds in '07 (wasn't very educated and checked myself into a bupe rehab in '08), then got back on pain meds in '09 and have been on heavy-duty meds ever since - 30mg roxicodones 8x a day and 40mg oxycontins 2x a day.

My PM doc began tapering me down early-ish this year, and then lost his license, which led me to a practitioner at a PCP practice taking over my taper in the early summer. They never UA'd me and never made me sign a contract, but sprang a UA on me last week and found some other things in my system (I'm also an MMJ patient, which she knows about), and gave me half my script and said I'd have to meet with the Doc on the 26th to discuss my results, and if he agreed to continue treating me, make me sign a contract with UA's.

I have a strong indication that he's just going to cut me off, so I've decided to do a rapid opiate taper on my own, utilizing loperamide, and it's been suggested I add Clonidine and benzos (only at night, PRN; sooo not looking for another damn physical dependence).

I want to make sure that the loperamide is going to help in the first place, because I am NOT about to say "hey, no thanks, I got this" on the 26th if I'm just going to wind up suffering hideous withdrawals anyway.

I want to take one day of NO opiate pain meds - I plan on starting tomorrow - and just use the lope, to see if I can hack it.

I'm really not sure what to do from there -- if the lope is working, should I just stop tapering my meds altogether and switch to the lope exclusively, if I should continue tapering my meds down and then start using the lope at the end of it, etc...I'm pretty fucking nervous, and scared, to be honest with you; y'all know how horrible withdrawals are, and I'd do just about anything to get through them with as little pain as possible.

Will definitely post my results tomorrow, and again, any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated

**derp, guess I should mention that I've tapered down to somewheres about 60-100mg (varies, honestly; but I'll be keeping a close watch on my intake)**

*****HERE...WE...GO******
I spent the last two weeks rapidly tapering myself off my meds, with the first week utilizing mostly just the loperamide, and the last week utilizing some loperamide, a lot of gabapentin, and in the last 2-3 days, adding kratom.

Week One: the loperamide has had a hideous effect on my intestinal tract; the complete opposite of constipation...I'd be lying if I said it didn't help; I was able to taper myself down to 60mg and STICK with it (which has always been my problem; I can never stay at the intended tapered dose), but, willpower and loperamide won. Minor withdrawal symptoms, but, persistent. I'm not entirely thrilled with the results, and decide to introduce some gabapentin I've procured.

Week Two: the combination of loperamide and gabapentin have allowed me to taper down another 20mg in TWO DAYS...however, I'm still experiencing some uncomfortable symptoms, and suddenly remember my old friend, KRATOM...I buy 2oz of powdered and crushed leaf Bali, and the remaining two days - two days before my appointment - I've managed to COMFORTABLY stick to 40mg of roxi - 20mg in the morning and 20mg before bed.

November 21st -- the doctor is actually very kind, considerate, and helpful - I expected sneering and to be looked down on, but the man actually APOLOGIZED and SYMPATHIZED, and patted me on the back and gave me just about everything I asked for - Clonidine and Flexiril (no Soma, but hey, that's ok)...he's also very cool with me utilizing MMJ for the insomnia; I KNEW he looked like someone who would be =) I took my very last 20mg of roxi that night. Took the Clonidine around 2am and hit the sack at 4am.

DAY ONE -- I woke up in withdrawal, and immediately went for 5-6g of powdered kratom. Withdrawals vanished within the hour, and I felt comfortable and completely NORMAL. Headed over to the moms for a weekend of detox - hey, having a parent's support helps - but I feel so good, I feel I just might really be able to do this. I take around 15-20g of kratom the first day, spread out, and feel fucking amazing.
Chemicals ingested: .001 Clonidine, 30mg of Flexiril (spread out in 10mg increments), 800mg neurontin, 15-20g kratom

DAY TWO - SOMETHING IS VERY, VERY WRONG...I woke up in withdrawal, stood up and semi-fainted on the way to the kitchen (you know; white lights, tunnel vision, but you have the sense to grab a counter on the way down and cling to it before you go unconscious for a second)...I made my kratom tea, and find I'm unable to swallow much and what I can, I throw back up - I do have a lap-band, and it felt as if my stomach and esophagus were extremely swollen; swallowing my own saliva makes everything constrict - so I spent the majority of the day in horrible, sickly withdrawal, being unable to ingest any kratom. Wanted to just DIE.
*I have two theories - I either ingested too much of the kratom powder and it expanded in my stomach pouch, OR, I ate something that contained a spice I'm allergic to...either way, steering clear of both.
Chemicals ingested: .001 Clonidine, 10mg Flexiril, and maybe 2g of kratom.

DAY THREE - the swelling has gone down, but I'm still having trouble getting liquids down. I've wasted nearly all my kratom and pray my next batch will be there the next morning. I'm able to take my meds, and they do help quite a bit, but another really terrible withdrawal symptom arises and -- avert your eyes, to protect your delicate sensibilities! - I spend the whole day in the bathroom; literally every 10 fucking minutes....two days of nothing but liquid and leftover kratom powder will do that, I suppose. My stomach finally relaxes towards the end of the night and I am able to drink some kratom tea, but food is still out of the question. My heart rate skyrocketed, in spite of the Clonidine and the few grams of kratom, but I'm amazed that regardless, my withdrawal symptoms are very, very minor.
(Even weirder - again, avert your eyes! - is that despite being unable to ingest much, I'm still hauling ass to the bathroom every 10 mins or so, and am producing nothing but kratom powder...gross)
Chemicals ingested: .002mg Clonidine (morning and night), 20mg Flexiril, 2-4g kratom.

DAY FOUR - Woke up feeling weak, light-headed, and just overall shitty. I am able to drink without much trouble, but I only had 1-2g of kratom left. It wasn't enough, and I spent much of the morning feeling like dead shit. I'm cold, my muscles are spazzing out, I can't even stand in the shower; I had to lay in the tub and force my arms to work. Took 800mg of gabapentin and 12mg loperamide and they relieve most of the withdrawal symptoms; I'm now just weak from not eating since Friday.
My kratom finally came around 12:30, made 6.5g tea and drank a Slimfast protein drink for energy and by the time I got to work at 2:30, I feel a truckload better. I started slamming water and another Slimfast, to cure my dehydration and by 5pm, I'm able to eat solid foods and don't feel any withdrawals AT ALL. Made a ton of Bali and Maeng Da teas and just casually take a sip here and there throughout my shift. I'm now home, having ingested another cup of kratom tea, and I simply cannot believe how good I feel.
Chemicals ingested: 800mg gabapentin, 12mg loperamide, .002 Clonidine, 10mg Flexiril, and around 10-15g kratom.

I will continue to update, but I do want to say this now -- in the last 4-5 years, I have not gone any longer than 24 hours without pain medication; never in a million years would I have thought it possible to go FOUR DAYS - hey, it's a damn good start - without taking a single opiate pill. I'm quite aware that I'll have to begin tapering my kratom dosage, but compared to the OMG-KILL-ME withdrawals of roxicodone/oxycontin, I think I can manage kratom tapering just fine =)

Oh, yeah, btw, FUCK THE LOPERAMIDE...in retrospect, the FUCK was I thinking?...sure, it kind of helped, but it made my liver/gallbladder hurt like crazy and it made me shit like crazy...for me, it definitely wasn't even close to helping take a decent-enough portion of the withdrawals away...when used in conjunction with the kratom, gabapentin, and now the Clonidine and Flexiril, sure, it's definitely helpful, but, on its own, NOT ENOUGH.

Four days down, seven-to-ten to go!!

****UPDATE******
Reached the ONE WEEK mark with very little-to-no discomfort =)
I'm 11 days in, and it's been wonderful. My major complaints are non-stop diarrhea and some minor muscle aches at times...oh, and being cold as shit...what a wonderfully minor withdrawal this is!!

 

[《Plasticity》]

With the habit you have it's gonna take quite a bit of lope to stave withdrawals. I have used lope when in withdrawal and it does it's job but makes me feel pretty crappy in high doses. I feel "dried up" if that makes sense. Be sure to take stool softeners or laxatives to keep you regular. Since your body is already used to opiates the constipation may not be as bad as you think. Be sure to keep us updated, I've always wondered if lope only prolongs the inevitable. Keep in mind that loperamide is physically addicting in itself and does cause opiate withdrawals if taken for too long. The half life is also extremely long so keep that in mind also. The plus is you wont have to dose every couple hours but the negative is if you do happen to get addicted, prepare for months of withdrawals. Good luck!

 

[MissAmazingRachel]

Day One: took around 16mg liquid Imodium at 2:30am, fell asleep about 4am, thinking it'd be working when I woke up...WOW WAS I WRONG; I woke up around 10am, feeling pretty shaky and cold - and, at the risk of your own delicate sensibilities, having the exact OPPOSITE of Imodium's purpose happen; plus side, no gut-wrenching constipation, no? - and immediately went for the 2mg tabs, fuck the liquid.

10:15am - took 24mg of the loperamide tablets. on the phone with my mother 30 mins later and my breath and voice are still pretty shaky and I'm still cold and my muscles are starting to spaz out. Not feeling so great but it's manageable.

11:30am -- my body feels as if it's starting to calm down. That's weird, in a very pleasant way. Still fucking freezing.

12:43 -- I feel kind of weak, but relatively ok. I think I might need to be in full-blown withdrawals to appreciate the feeling. Skin is taking on that ugly, red-veiny appearance I get when I start detoxing/withdrawal. Thinking I might need to re-dose. I'm also thinking that this really might work; I should be starting to kick and stretch and be extremely uncomfortable, but it's really pretty mild. Half of my anxiety over this has already dissipated.

1pm - kids, I'm breaking. I have to be to work by 2, and maybe starting this experiment on a workday wasn't so bright - I obviously need to experiment with the loperamide dosages; it's working, for sure, but not enough to keep me steady through the day. Might need to play with the grapefruit juice for the first few days, to keep me ok enough. I'm not as afraid anymore, so, that's pretty cool.

I also have access to gabapentin, read a few things here and there about it helping the w/d symptoms, wonder how I can maybe incorporate that, if the lope fails me by itself.

Wait, wow. My body is going back and forth, as I write this. Maybe the lope is finally really kicking in? Been about 3 hours...as of 1:30, I took about 12mg more loperamide.

2pm - nah. I got nervous that I'd either shit, puke, or pass out at work, so I popped a 40mg oxy.

3pm - feeling pretty good, am pretty sure it's not the Oxy I took; wouldn't work that fast...

5:12pm -- feeling really very content...NOW I'm pretty sure it's the Oxy.

So!
Outcome: I strongly believe that the loperamide, in addition to Clonidine and benzos, will most definitely work to take the majority of withdrawals.

Going to continue tapering my opiate meds down and will update when the REAL loperamide detox begins.

 

[Druidus]

I really think you should be using poppy seed tea instead. It's cheaper, and it works great. Much more pleasurable and smooth to taper off with.

I used it to quit a high dose IV opiate/opioid addiction. Worked perfectly, even though I'd used so long and so much.

Loperamide works and is an aid, but is nothing compared to tea. Good luck all the same.

 

[MissAmazingRachel]

Poppy seed tea scares me, but, what the hell, why not...as long as one is careful to not switch one dependence for another, which I'm definitely not looking for...you wouldn't happen to know which is the lesser of two evils, would you? - which is more addicting, loperamide or poppy tea? How fast could I become hooked on the tea?

I'm hoping to taper the pills down, jump off those and onto the loperamide (or tea, whichever) and go just one week with using those alternatives, and then begin tapering off of them after that one week period...I've never tried it this way before; I really just have no idea what to expect or wtf I'm doing.

 

[Druidus]

Poppy seed is the lesser of two evils. It takes about 2-3 weeks daily recreational use to get seriously dependant on the tea. Ideally, you'll be lowering your dose as you go, so you'll only get better, and you might not even need to use it that long. 2 weeks or so worked for me. Here's a quote of mine from an old thead:

Btw, quitting IV opiates, or any route of admin., really, is incredibly easier if you use the OTC resources available to one in need. Loperamide, or Immodium, actually helps a lot when taken in massive doses. People say it doesn't cross the BBB well enough to be psychoactive. That's bullshit, IMO and IME. Butr we're talking fifty plus milligrams. I needed over 100 per dose. That's over fifty pills, and it's so expensive it might as well be from the street. Less helpful, I find, is the codeine you can get OTC in many countries, though only 8mg tablets here, combined with 15mg of caffeine each and a ton of acetaminophen to CWE out. The caffeine stays, mostly, so it kind of really sucks.

The best thing, barring methadone or suboxone, which many cannot get on (or off, I've heard), is poppy seeds. I'll stand by them to the grave. They don't get completely washed of opium latex, especially in bulk stores; meaning you can have morphine/opiate tea. Just find a store with cheap bulk poppy seeds, test it by using 300mg to measure potency, if any. I could use a kilogram to a kilo and a half and actually catch a nod. Used two to three times a day at the dose you need to kill the cravings and the withdrawal symptoms, it's a Godsend. And you can slowly reduce the dose every two or three days, more if you need it. Until you feel if not the best, at least good, without opiates in your system.

I'm amazed they're legal, lol. So ridiculously cheap compared to street prices. Five to ten bucks gives you a good day, two if you stretch it. You can't inject it, and as long as you don't dose it too frequently or too heavily, it's relatively safe. People have died from it, though, so be careful. Test the potency of every new batch, it varies quite a lot, not all seeds have the same latex coating left. You could OD on as little as a kilo if it's too potent. If anyone asks why you buy so many poppy seeds, tell them you absolutely love poppy seed cakes and other baked goods. It's still legal to have whatever amount, until the minute you start making the tea, which would be considered a preparation of morphine.

To make the tea, simply put your dose of seeds in a container, fill to a little above the seeds with WARM water, and then shake/let sit for thirty to forty mins. Strain the seeds from the liquid, and squeeze them inside the container to push out the water they soak up. Rewash the seeds, same drill, but don't combine the washes. Taste the first wash, and it shouldn't be unpleasant, but rather, earthy, tealike, and, here's what to taste for: bitter! You can generally gauge the strength of a particular wash by tasting for bitterness alone. Test that, taste the second wash. Still bitter, but very noticeably weaker. Still diminishing returns don't crop up too much till the third wash, which I don't bother with.

Dose every six to ten hours, depending on need, and stabilize without the horrors of withdrawal. Literally, folks, you can KILL the symptoms completely; I cannot praise this stuff enough. To anyone trying to quit, please, just give seeds a try. You won't regret it. It literally saved my life, I wouldn't have got on the bus to leave street opiates behind without it; I just took enough seeds for two weeks and left.

It sounds too good to be true, and it almost should be, lol, but I swear, this is legitimate. Poppy seeds, at least from bulk stores (IME), contain more than enough morphine for opiate tapering, and even if you don't want to quit, you can get a damn good high from it, even a nod. And it's long lasting, so you don't need to redoes that much at all. In fact, I could get by on one strong dose a day, but I took a second one around supper time in order to mitigate symptoms upon waking the next day.

Seed tea, FTW.

 

[MissAmazingRachel]

Hi, kids!

So! The tapering has not been going so well; I kind of forgot that using my 40mg Oxys up first would create a higher tolerance - "oh, I'll just use these first, so I'll have more 20mg roxis to taper with" - STUPID! STUPID STUPID MOVE!

However, today I tried loperamide again, this time with gabapentin, and I gotta say, WOW. while it definitely didn't take ALL of the withdrawal symptoms away, it definitely worked so, SO much better than the first time I tried. I'm also going to maybe try the poppy seed thing, see if it - in small doses - will also take the edge off.

I'm going to run out of meds very, very soon, and, that is when the REAL experiment begins, and I'm nervous, but I'm feeling much better about it now, knowing that yes, the loperamide DOES WORK for me.

We shall see!

 

[Bojangles2.0]

Poppy seed tea will obviously kill wds but the variability of batches will make it hard to taper.

Also, its hard to get high on poppy tea with a high tolerance to opiates (like you have) since the oils from the tea often make
people sick. The one time I tried getting "high" on the tea, I drank about 1lb worth of seeds, got high as shit, but I also got
excruciating stomach pain from the oils. And that served as a reminder never to abuse seeds again.

Poppy pods on the other hand, are a different story. I rarely got severe stomach pain from pods which is why I abused them
for as long as I did.

Either way, you have to consider worst case scenario and have a plan B.
Thats usually what I do when I'm in a situation like you. And it will help alleviate a lot of anxiety... just having a fail proof
back up plan.

Immodium has worked for me in the past, but I had to take such a high dose the side effects of the immodium itself were
impossible to bear. And they didn't become really noticeable till after the first week. Even though I was drinking lots of
water and metamucil, I became so bloated that I felt like shit. I'd get these awful headaches, and I couldn't stay on the
immodium anymore.

I didn't want to go on poppy seed tea because its too much bullshit ordering / maintaining your dose. It also can become
rather expensive compared to sub.

So I think your worst case scenario, if shit hits the fan, and nothing works.... just go visit a sub doctor. Thats what I
always do and its always my plan B. I've seen various different sub doctors over the last couple years and I'm not sure
what the prices are in Colorado, but in NJ its much cheaper to be on sub than poppy seed tea. Its also 100xs easier to
taper.

I started at 8mg of sub and tapered down to .25mg with absolutely no problems whatsoever. But I did taper slow.

You won't really know how well lope works until you've been on it for a week or 2. So like I said, don't freak out.
If you can't manage it, just hop on sub then taper down slowly. Out of all the opiates I've ever done, I've found
sub by far the easiest to taper and one of the most useful meds out there. Its so easy to get down to a low
dose, I always felt very stable on it, and once you're really low, you can bridge to a low dose of lope, extended
release codiene, or just stop opiates completely and take some clonidine and seroquel.

-Bo

 

[MissAmazingRachel]

OH HELL NO =)
I agree that suboxone can be a wonder drug - definitely saved my ass and got me off opiates my first run, but, I also know it's a bitch to get off of...actually, what's REALLY weird is, when I was 6 months out of rehab and got my shoulder injury diagnosed and started seeing my pain doc, I was going to both my sub doc and my pain doc, at the same time - both totally aware of each other and both signed off on my plan, which was to use the subs when I felt my opiate tolerance was getting a little high and I began experiencing withdrawals after a few hours; I'd pop a little bit of sub, and be on my way...it wasn't until I found this site and read everyone's stories about taking subs with opiates...shouldn't I have gone into precipitated withdrawal??? THAT'S weird...but I swear it on my mother - who I also gave a bit of subs to, to help her between scripts, and she never did experience them, either...

Hey that's what being Polish gets you, I guess =)

But, no ma'am/sir, I shall take no suboxone...I don't even really want to do loperamide or the poppy, either, to tell you the truth; my mind doesn't want this - the opiates, being on opiates, etc - but my body definitely needs help getting through it enough to where I can function semi-decently.

**UPDATE**
I took 800mg of Neurontin around 12pm, having taken a roxi at 11am...I made it THE WHOLE DAY - til just now, almost 9pm - without experiencing any harsh withdrawal (I've been on them so long, my body starts freaking out around 4-5 hours after my last dose), I can't believe it...I started to feel uncomfortable around 4pm, so I took an extra 800mg, and it wasn't until a little while ago that my body started really freaking out, so, I took some lope and about 2 hours later, I had to take a roxi, but JESUS H CHRIST, WHAT A DAY...that's pretty damn rad for me; I'm actually EXCITED to do this.

I also have a huge shipment of kratom coming in tomorrow, I'm thinking I might utilize that more than anything; the lope is making my liver/gallbladder hurt, lol, no me gusta...

Finding for the day: High doses of Neurontin - 800mg per dose - with moderate loperamide doses, has kept this gal really very comfortable and nearly withdrawal-free for the day.

Hot damn!

 

[StartedHydro]

If you could manage one single 8 mg sub strip it could work wonders for the hardcore WDs. If done right 2-4 8 mg strips STRICTLY admistered and tapered coming off opiates can be painless to almost painless.

One 8 mg strip. 2 mg first day, 2 mg next day, 1mg next, 1 mg next, .5 next, .5 next, .25, .25... That would be 8 days of bupe dosing and with long half life will last you around 9-11 days which without a doubt covers the full agonist withdrawal, the worst. You will still feel off after this but no where near intense. Mostly lack of energy, blood pressure/anxiety, GI, broken sleep but less severe.

If you can manage 4-6 strips and strictly administer and taper you can come off opiates with zero WDs. I have done it.

 

[MissAmazingRachel]

**UPDATE**
My kratom came in this morning!

10:25am - woke up with very mild withdrawal symptoms, but it wasn't bad AT ALL. took one 20mg roxi.

11:15pm - kratom arrived! Ingested 6.5g in some applesauce, went down beautifully

3:15pm - ingested another 6g of kratom...I'm so surprised at how well I felt; I was be-bopping around work, spring in my step and all

6:45pm - took 800mg of neurontin, as I feel my kratom already wearing off.

7:30pm - took 24mg of loperamide, as my stomach was starting to rumble a bit

As of right now, I feel slightly drunk and wobbly, and I can feel my muscles starting to tense, but my mind feels so strong, I refuse to take another pill - I'm down to two a day! Holy shit!! - until I pass yesterday's goal, which was just about 10 hours; I want to see if I can go at least 11, but shit, the way I feel, I could maybe go 12.

Today's finding: TAKE THE FUCKING KRATOM. IT REALLY DOES WORK. It has mixed beautifully with the loperamide and gabapentin; for someone who starts to withdrawal at just 4-6 hours after a pill, going over 10 hours in just two days is AWESOME.
I have 5 pills left; I know that in a few days, they'll be gone, and I no longer care - no anxiety, no more worrying.

Fuck yeeeeeeah

 

[MissAmazingRachel]

12 hour mark reached!!

5-6g kratom, 800mg gabapentin, 12-24mg loperamide = GODSEND.

 

[sick sybil]

I have to say I have been taking dones' for a month. Did a quick taper from 40-20mgs quickly. They are the tablets. I'm comfy on 20 but I want off, So three days ago I took 12mgs of loperamide. Then I took 6mgs twice a day and I'm still comfy. I pretty much slept for the last 2dys by taking xanaz, Lyrica, and Seroquel. I quit all but the xanax, and lopes today. Still feeling good. Going to go to my physical job tomorrow and I am optimistic. Maybe you just need to findd the proper dose for you by taking a few days off, more if possible to get where you want to be, then in a week or so start tapering the lopes ever so slightly.