My first time and a question

[ArthurLS]

Hey guys, well I'm new at the forum and to mdma. I tried it yesterday on a EDM festival, bought it from a good friend.
I researched a lot before try it after thinking a lot with 3 more friends who did it. The first 10 - 5 mins, were really bad in some way, it felt like my mind was getting out of my body, i felt reaaally lightweight and had kind of 'paranoia' because of that, i got a little bit scared, but thanks to my friends that helped me getting some water i got better, after that it was only happiness, i mean i can't explain it, it was just pure joy and a strong need to dance, i just wanted to say to everyone how good i feel, one of the best things was than i was conscious every second, so i didn't forget to drink water and rest when i thought it was necessary (because in that moment i didn't felt anything but just happiness)


Now it's been almost 30 hours since I took the pill and I still feel awesome, like different, Is that normal?


And with this experience I wanted to know if it's okay to recommend the MDMA to a friend?, because she's kind of a sad person, I mean she's really kind and strong, but she has some depression and I would love to help her, I mean my problems went faaar away with this, I just felt great, but I don't really know if its gonna work like that with her, what do you think?

PS: Sorry for my English, i'm latin :D

 

[TheDEA.org]

Now it's been almost 30 hours since I took the pill and I still feel awesome, like different, Is that normal?

It seems to be fairly common for first-time experiences.

And with this experience I wanted to know if it's okay to recommend the MDMA to a friend?, because she's kind of a sad person, I mean she's really kind and strong, but she has some depression and I would love to help her, I mean my problems went faaar away with this, I just felt great, but I don't really know if its gonna work like that with her, what do you think?

She would probably have a similar experience, but there are no guarantees. Give it some thought and do whatever you believe is the right thing. If you do bring it up with her, be sure to warn her against frequent use! When our lives are dark, the bright light of MDMA can become a little too tempting. Honor the experience by treating it as a teacher to occasionally visit, not a place to habitually hide from life.

 

[KingBoris]

I would make sure she isn't taking antidepressants for her depression. SSRIS and MDMA are bad news.

 

[ArthurLS]

I would make sure she isn't taking antidepressants for her depression. SSRIS and MDMA are bad news.

That's the thing, she's taking some meds for her condition, and I was thinking than she just need a vision of how good the world is (for me the mdma made me feel really good, and change my perspective), but if you say than is bad if she takes those meds I won't gonna recommend the M to her, thx for the advice, Can you say why is it bad?

If you do bring it up with her, be sure to warn her against frequent use! When our lives are dark, the bright light of MDMA can become a little too tempting. Honor the experience by treating it as a teacher to occasionally visit, not a place to habitually hide from life.

I know, I felt so good, but never thought being a continous consumer, I was thinking about taking like 3 pills in a year, I mean just for some really specials situations, thanks for the reply :D

 

[KingBoris]

Both MDMA and SSRIs release serotonin in the brain. The realise of to much serotonin can cause serotonin syndrome. Best case scenario the MDMA won't have an effect. Worst case she gets serotonin syndrome.

 

[JWills20]

Both MDMA and SSRIs release serotonin in the brain. The realise of to much serotonin can cause serotonin syndrome. Best case scenario the MDMA won't have an effect. Worst case she gets serotonin syndrome.

The SSRI, MDMA and serotonin syndrome is more likely to be a bit of a myth. This is because SSRIs bind to the same sites that MDMA does. As a result, the MDMA goes in and is unable to bind to where it usually does as effectively and therefore serotonin release is significantly reduced. This causes the opposite to serotonin syndrome - a dulled MDMA experience.

 

[ArthurLS]

The SSRI, MDMA and serotonin syndrome is more likely to be a bit of a myth. This is because SSRIs bind to the same sites that MDMA does. As a result, the MDMA goes in and is unable to bind to where it usually does as effectively and therefore serotonin release is significantly reduced. This causes the opposite to serotonin syndrome - a dulled MDMA experience.

Well, know I'm confused lol, I don't know which one of you is right, can you give me kind of a source? Just to be sure, I don't want to take a bad choice, anyways thanks for the reply :D

 

[TheDEA.org]

I'm not sure I can give you a simple source to 'prove' it, but I would agree with JWills20.

Both SSRIs and MDMA increase free serotonin levels, but they do it in different ways. SSRIs block a 'pump' called the serotonin transporter that your brain normally uses to remove free serotonin from your brain. Blocking it off leaves more serotonin floating around.

MDMA seems to take a much more active role, causing a large release of serotonin in the brain. But to do that, it needs to get inside the serotonin neurons. It does this by getting sucked up by the serotonin transporter 'pump' accidentally. If a person is on an SSRI, the 'door' that MDMA needs to get in through is at least partially blocked shut.

Although there have been some accounts of people on SSRIs being able to have full-strength MDMA experiences, most people report that they felt little effect from the MDMA while taking SSRIs. If your friend is on an SSRI, she probably won't be able to have an MDMA experience. Although it can be tempting, it's best not to go off antidepressants too casually. Antidepressants can have severe withdrawal symptoms, including intense anxiety, rebound depression, etc. If you feel you're ready to off a psychiatric medication, talk to your doctor about how to go about it (usually by lowering the dosage over time.)

 

[lightofheaven]

in my experience you do not want to give mdma to a troubled person, it needs to come to it and even then its not a good thing to do most of the time. drugs are bad and you dont want to push her over the edge. it can happen ez

 

[epic11]

If you want to give your friend the same overwhelming crazy life experience you had (I as well, the world is beautiful, congrats on being freed) They will need to stop any and all meds used for depression. Mainly any mind med. Aim for3 months off. Real food with no pesticides and a general happy lifestyle trumps any short term med fixes. Eat real food, (USDA ORGANIC IF IN THE STATES) little-to-no depression.

 

[Black]

I'm not sure I can give you a simple source to 'prove' it, but I would agree with JWills20.

Both SSRIs and MDMA increase free serotonin levels, but they do it in different ways. SSRIs block a 'pump' called the serotonin transporter that your brain normally uses to remove free serotonin from your brain. Blocking it off leaves more serotonin floating around.

MDMA seems to take a much more active role, causing a large release of serotonin in the brain. But to do that, it needs to get inside the serotonin neurons. It does this by getting sucked up by the serotonin transporter 'pump' accidentally. If a person is on an SSRI, the 'door' that MDMA needs to get in through is at least partially blocked shut.

if mdma can diffuse through the blood-brain-barrier, then it is not stopped by the simple membrane of a neuron. mdma binds to the 5-ht2b receptor, which in turn releases serotonin using a mechanism dependant on the serotonin transporter. therefore we can conclude that it reverses the transporter to release serotonin. and if the serotonin tranporter is blocked by an ssri it's only logical that we don't see serotonin release.

 

[Dresden]

Um, I don't pesticide residue on food has anything to do with it.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Hey guys, well I'm new at the forum and to mdma. I tried it yesterday on a EDM festival, bought it from a good friend.
I researched a lot before try it after thinking a lot with 3 more friends who did it. The first 10 - 5 mins, were really bad in some way, it felt like my mind was getting out of my body, i felt reaaally lightweight and had kind of 'paranoia' because of that, i got a little bit scared, but thanks to my friends that helped me getting some water i got better, after that it was only happiness, i mean i can't explain it, it was just pure joy and a strong need to dance, i just wanted to say to everyone how good i feel, one of the best things was than i was conscious every second, so i didn't forget to drink water and rest when i thought it was necessary (because in that moment i didn't felt anything but just happiness)


Now it's been almost 30 hours since I took the pill and I still feel awesome, like different, Is that normal?


And with this experience I wanted to know if it's okay to recommend the MDMA to a friend?, because she's kind of a sad person, I mean she's really kind and strong, but she has some depression and I would love to help her, I mean my problems went faaar away with this, I just felt great, but I don't really know if its gonna work like that with her, what do you think?

PS: Sorry for my English, i'm latin :D

You are one of the lucky ones -- you get AFTERGLOW. Rejoice!

Afterglow is the happy feeling for days after taking a pill.

 

[Jabberwocky]

if mdma can diffuse through the blood-brain-barrier, then it is not stopped by the simple membrane of a neuron. mdma binds to the 5-ht2b receptor, which in turn releases serotonin using a mechanism dependant on the serotonin transporter. therefore we can conclude that it reverses the transporter to release serotonin. and if the serotonin tranporter is blocked by an ssri it's only logical that we don't see serotonin release.

Umm - SERT only works for re-uptake, no SERT is needed to release serotonin from the synaptic vesicle

 

[Black]

Umm - SERT only works for re-uptake, no SERT is needed to release serotonin from the synaptic vesicle

not for "the usual way". but it can work in both ways.

take a look at this paper for instance. it's their first sentence in the abstract.
the paper they cite in this context is also quite interesting (even though i'd like to see some more modern work done on this)

if sert's only function in mdma-mediated serotonin release would be to transport the mdma into the cell, then why do ssris block mdma-mediated serotonin release? mdma can diffuse into the cell just fine.
mdma also causes efflux from the synaptic vesicles into the cytoplasm and inhibits transport of serotonin to these vesicles (iirc that's also the mechanism by which amphetamine mediates da/ne release). this is consistent with mdma causing serotonin release through sert but would be quite detrimental to serotonin release if it were just released the usual way by fusion of the synaptic vesicle with the plasma membrane.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

Shugenja might be referring to this particular study but who knows. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/14511335/ "Block of the serotonin transporter (SERT) with citalopram slowed the time course and reduced overall 5-HT release by MDMA. Depletion of vesicular 5-HT, by inhibition of vesicular monoamine transporter type 2 with tetrabenazine prevented the release. Thus although the SERT reversal contributes, a direct vesicle-depleting action is essential for MDMA release of 5-HT."

But it's really difficult to make a clear cut conclusion from the study above. Aside from 5-HT2B blockade studies, as I recall, human studies have shown that SSRI administration prior to MDMA greatly negates the effects.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

mdma also causes efflux from the synaptic vesicles into the cytoplasm

Hence why the study I posted above is not clear cut. It could be that they just didn't get a high enough degree of SERT blockade, or the 5-HT2B agonism by SSRIs caused some discrepancy. My brain can't think of anything else at the moment lol.

It's also been proposed that vesicles may dock directly to the transporters when they are reverse facing.

 

[Black]

ah, reality. always more complicated than we think and there are always multiple mechanisms at work to explain one thing
still, also according to the paper you cite, sert reversal is one of those mechanisms

edit: it seems we responded to fast to each other's posts.

It's also been proposed that vesicles may dock directly to the transporters when they are reverse facing.

now that's an interesting hypothesis.

edit2: i'm still looking for that one paper i read years ago that links 5-ht2b activation to sert-dependant serotonin release as a physiological mechanism (so without any mdma/... involved). i hope my memory is not playing tricks on me...

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

Oh sorry I probably didn't make my position very clear lol, I'm of the opinion that SERT reversal is necessary for the signature MDMA effects (aside from other effects that could confound a study using SSRIs + MDMA that was investigating whether or not drug naive people got any effects at all, like from DRI, a7 partial agonism, or MDA's agonism).

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...tion-of-MDMA-and-SSRI’s-not-just-valvulopathy

Even the dopamine increase with MDMA is blocked with 5-HT2B blockade. I think Serotonin2A over there thinks that 5-HT2B may be playing a permissive role in allowing the SERT to enter reverse facing confirmation.