Meth My Experience W/ The “New Meth”

[G_Chem]

I didn’t think I’d be here telling this story but I have to join the ranks of those that feel meth ain’t what it used to be..

For a little context on my past meth use. I’ve used this drug very little over the years. I had it a couple times in ecstasy pill form unintentionally over the years but it wasn’t until 2017 I started to use it purposely.

In 2018 I was taking lunch at a Jack in the Box in southern ID and found a bottle cap on the toilet paper dispenser that had crystal shards laying all around it. I instantly knew what it was. Took it home and reagent tested it anyway to find it to be meth.

This meth was absolutely amazing. For years I’d use it at doses of 1-5mg depending on what I was doing. Most often mixed with MDMA but occasionally I’d take a dose just by itself and it was great. Everything I expected from it, very little negative comedown.

2 years ago 2021 at a festival I was given .5g of meth as a ground score from someone. It tested as it should on reagents. The crystal structure did look different however, less jagged and overall much bigger blockier shards.

Then last summer I was given another .3g or so. This looked a little more similar to the old stuff but still different.

I sat on these for awhile as like I said I don’t use it often. Then one weekend I decided to give them a try. Well I decided to give one batch a try but when I was so disappointed I tried the other the next night.

First night I used about 3mg of the 2021 batch. I immediately noticed the taste was different, much less bitter and lacking of the ammonia flavor I’d tasted with the good stuff.

The high was pretty much as everyone says the new meth to be… Very little euphoria, not much stimulation that honestly felt sleepy at times, and generally just cloudy headed. So different from what I was used to. The entire day was a disappointment.

Next day I tried the other batch. This one was a bit better but still very much lacking in the positive effects I seek.

This all seems so contradictory to what the government drug labs are telling us. I was talking with a relative in law enforcement who had word of a recent big meth bust in the area. He says it’s all coming back as the purest they’ve ever seen?..

Either they are lying or there’s some impurities in there which are inhibiting the meths effects.

I’d like, for the sake of both peoples health as well as their ability to get high, find the root to this problem. I believe if we can find a way to purify out butylamphetamine or whatever it is causing this, there’s lots of cheap meth to be had. The process just needs to be easy for the average person to do.

When first watching this phenomenon from a distance I thought it was just tolerance. But I’m someone with pretty much no tolerance, no history of abuse with meth, and I still have a little of the old 2018 batch of good stuff to remind me of what it’s supposed to feel like. I’m a believer!

-GC

 

[negrogesic]

Yeah my experience for it to be quite different than pseudoephedrine based d-meth.

The price of this stuff is shockingly low, at least the state that I am in (which borders mexico). An 1/8th of this new crystal meth costs less than an 1/8th of weed. It was about 2.5x to 3x times more expensive back in ~2014.

Interestingly, while definitely lower, the potency really isn't that much different. But the effect itself is quite different. It only starts to resemble the meth that I used to know when taken at high oral doses.

Some other interesting differences: this new stuff cause skin rashes upon a single good sized doses, with a few, itchy and red hive-like spots popping up on my chest from a just single use (almost like an allergy reaction). It also causes a form of gastrointestinal discomfort I have never felt from meth, a sort of esophageal discomfort that resembles heart burn (but has some distinctive differences).

My best guess is that this meth is:

1) not enantiomerically pure and is comprised of a fairly small but pharmacodynamically relevant amount of l-methamphetamine (perhaps anywhere from 3% to 20%?)

2) contaminated by some noxious synthesis contaminants

and maybe;

3) something less understood, such as perhaps the creation of some inferior form of d-methamphetamine caused by the repeated optical resolution/racemization of l-methamphetamine to d-methamphetamine?

I can't imagine the issue could be something like butylamphetamine or etc because wouldn't that pop up on GCMS testing?

 

[G_Chem]

Yeah my experience for it to be quite different than pseudoephedrine based d-meth.

The price of this stuff is shockingly low, at least the state that I am in (which borders mexico). An 1/8th of this new crystal meth costs less than an 1/8th of weed. It was about 2.5x to 3x times more expensive back in ~2014.

Interestingly, while definitely lower, the potency really isn't that much different. But the effect itself is quite different. It only starts to resemble the meth that I used to know when taken at high oral doses.

Some other interesting differences: this new stuff cause skin rashes upon a single good sized doses, with a few, itchy and red hive-like spots popping up on my chest from a just single use (almost like an allergy reaction). It also causes a form of gastrointestinal discomfort I have never felt from meth, a sort of esophageal discomfort that resembles heart burn (but has some distinctive differences).

My best guess is that this meth is:

1) not enantiomerically pure and is comprised of a fairly small but pharmacodynamically relevant amount of l-methamphetamine (perhaps anywhere from 3% to 20%?)

2) contaminated by some noxious synthesis contaminants

and maybe;

3) perhaps something less understood, such as perhaps the creation of some inferior form of d-methamphetamine caused by the repeated optical resolution/racemization of l-methamphetamine to d-methamphetamine?

I can't imagine the issue could be something like butylamphetamine or etc because wouldn't that pop up on GCMS testing?

#3 got me thinking, and I’ll respond more later… But #3…

While researching MDMA batch variation I came to the conclusion hydrogenation reductions via platinum overall had a less euphoric/positive experience. Pt reductions correlated well with perceived differences in MDMA experience.

Platinum is also one way you can racemize meth if I’m remembering correctly. Raney Nickel being another. They could also be using this same platinum catalyst for the reduction of the p2p.

Idk how or why platinum or its use in a catalytic hydrogenation reduction would produce inferior product but there’s this commonality I’m noticing amongst amphetamines.

I also think butylamphetamine is of interest if it has reuptake inhibitor properties but no release, wouldn’t that be akin to taking say cocaine and meth? Might block the effect?

-GC

 

[RedRum OG]

Issue way beyond my chemical knowledge, but as complicated as it is I figure it can only really be a few things

1) low amount of active ingrdient (seems unlikely)
2) presence of toxic impurity
3) presence of psychoactive impurity
4) some sort of isomer issue as said above

Seems pretty easy to rule these out one by one with a decent lab

 

[hardtack]

I didn’t think I’d be here telling this story but I have to join the ranks of those that feel meth ain’t what it used to be..

For a little context on my past meth use. I’ve used this drug very little over the years. I had it a couple times in ecstasy pill form unintentionally over the years but it wasn’t until 2017 I started to use it purposely.

In 2018 I was taking lunch at a Jack in the Box in southern ID and found a bottle cap on the toilet paper dispenser that had crystal shards laying all around it. I instantly knew what it was. Took it home and reagent tested it anyway to find it to be meth.

This meth was absolutely amazing. For years I’d use it at doses of 1-5mg depending on what I was doing. Most often mixed with MDMA but occasionally I’d take a dose just by itself and it was great. Everything I expected from it, very little negative comedown.

2 years ago 2021 at a festival I was given .5g of meth as a ground score from someone. It tested as it should on reagents. The crystal structure did look different however, less jagged and overall much bigger blockier shards.

Then last summer I was given another .3g or so. This looked a little more similar to the old stuff but still different.

I sat on these for awhile as like I said I don’t use it often. Then one weekend I decided to give them a try. Well I decided to give one batch a try but when I was so disappointed I tried the other the next night.

First night I used about 3mg of the 2021 batch. I immediately noticed the taste was different, much less bitter and lacking of the ammonia flavor I’d tasted with the good stuff.

The high was pretty much as everyone says the new meth to be… Very little euphoria, not much stimulation that honestly felt sleepy at times, and generally just cloudy headed. So different from what I was used to. The entire day was a disappointment.

Next day I tried the other batch. This one was a bit better but still very much lacking in the positive effects I seek.

This all seems so contradictory to what the government drug labs are telling us. I was talking with a relative in law enforcement who had word of a recent big meth bust in the area. He says it’s all coming back as the purest they’ve ever seen?..

Either they are lying or there’s some impurities in there which are inhibiting the meths effects.

I’d like, for the sake of both peoples health as well as their ability to get high, find the root to this problem. I believe if we can find a way to purify out butylamphetamine or whatever it is causing this, there’s lots of cheap meth to be had. The process just needs to be easy for the average person to do.

When first watching this phenomenon from a distance I thought it was just tolerance. But I’m someone with pretty much no tolerance, no history of abuse with meth, and I still have a little of the old 2018 batch of good stuff to remind me of what it’s supposed to feel like. I’m a believer!

-GC

When is boils up and reconstitutes in bottom of good big Borosilicate pipe like I use give rush of Euphoria or just stimulation? Just curious because mine was wicked 90% absolutely pure Crystal and made well Pure way p2p I hit like a few grams and woke me up big time but NOTHING compare what I love now ( As if I went forward in time to 2300 and discovered something futuristic. But I'm not allowed to detail this unless right section of this site Not to mention this is SO GD powerful before i set down the Glass Bong I'm gurning as I exhale well pretty nasty tasting smoke mild diesel jet fuel after cleansed . LOL But Euphoric >>>/ OMG that is a huge huge understatement and addictive 1000x Meth I don't even want Meth for free Yeah!!! Incredible thing is country that probably outlawed Flintstone Vitamins ahhhh discovered this wonderful chem. I hate saying drugs because basically all chems are KEYS to what we All everybody well age 14 and older possess. But each one is a different key and well keep using same key same door and same experience till what gives real pleasure or effects depleted. Good Old real MDMA say Superman Blue 120 mg bombers or Dino pills pressed which did cause serious concern because of Flinstone Vitamins and super serious concerns a Baby brother or sister would find Big Brothers party pills and eat them like Mom gave them for nutrition and need not say anymore the outcome way back in 1990s. So basically METH is Super charge amphetamine and what I do is METH attached as well and strongest of Euphoriants on this planet Super charged Pentylone. Meaning Crystal hits receptors for energy and motor activity and BU hits receptors for Euphoria? However perform very similar and effect main organs no question what so ever. Only difference hitting it in Bong and involves very technical process and and incredible so so similar but Nasty Nasty taste Oh well petty price to pay for the RUSH wow something like >>>

 

[G_Chem]

I was looking at DrugsData and noticed a lot of samples showing Amphetamine and Dimethylamphetamine. Check this one out which says “felt sluggish, tired.”

DrugsData.org (was EcstasyData): Test Details : Result #14442 - Meth, 14442

DrugsData (EcstasyData) lab testing result

www.drugsdata.org

And another…

DrugsData.org (was EcstasyData): Test Details : Result #14444 - Meth, 14444

DrugsData (EcstasyData) lab testing result

www.drugsdata.org

-GC

 

[tryptakid]

Hey GC,

I'm very interested in this topic as I work with a number of patients who use meth in the context of PnP/chemsex, and who note high incidents of psychosis that sets in within a relatively short window of time, a day or less. Back in the 00s, I had a few binges with meth that lasted 4-6 days and while I did start to get shimmery vision and some auditory phenomena, I never experienced anything close to the types of psychotic symptoms that folks seem to be consistently experiencing after a pretty short window of time.

You may have already read Sam Quinones article The New Meth but it's worth a read if you haven't. Even explores the impact on psychiatric treatment systems and also how some people may actually seek out meth psychosis because it's an escape from their own difficult lives... not too disimilar to why some people really like dissociatives. Honestly, I have a patient that I work with who gets sucked into meth psychosis in a way the reminds me of when I would use strong doses of Ketamine specifically to K-Hole.

There is also a thread on reddit where a meth cook throws in his $.02 about what he thinks is going on, specifically indicating that he thinks that n-isopropylbenzylamine remains in the products distributed on the street in greater quantities than are reported. It could also be the ensemble effect of racemic-meth along with n-iso or other similar precursors or residual contaminants that cause the effects to swing away from stimulation into whatever the frankemeth effects are becoming.

In the Quinones article, there is also the notion that pseudo-meth is made from a food-safe initial precursor, whereas p2p meth is using a precursor that is not intended for human consumption and is far less "clean" when it comes to contaminants such as various heavy metals.

Personally I think all of these things are likely contributing to some degree, especially since the sheer range of different effects suggests a variety of factors.

What I do know is that there are plenty of pressed adderall pills going around that are, in fact, meth, and those pills are noted to really not provide much in the way of productive stimulation that meth or dextro/levo-amphetamine would produce.

 

[trevrett]

I didn’t think I’d be here telling this story but I have to join the ranks of those that feel meth ain’t what it used to be..

For a little context on my past meth use. I’ve used this drug very little over the years. I had it a couple times in ecstasy pill form unintentionally over the years but it wasn’t until 2017 I started to use it purposely.

In 2018 I was taking lunch at a Jack in the Box in southern ID and found a bottle cap on the toilet paper dispenser that had crystal shards laying all around it. I instantly knew what it was. Took it home and reagent tested it anyway to find it to be meth.

This meth was absolutely amazing. For years I’d use it at doses of 1-5mg depending on what I was doing. Most often mixed with MDMA but occasionally I’d take a dose just by itself and it was great. Everything I expected from it, very little negative comedown.

2 years ago 2021 at a festival I was given .5g of meth as a ground score from someone. It tested as it should on reagents. The crystal structure did look different however, less jagged and overall much bigger blockier shards.

Then last summer I was given another .3g or so. This looked a little more similar to the old stuff but still different.

I sat on these for awhile as like I said I don’t use it often. Then one weekend I decided to give them a try. Well I decided to give one batch a try but when I was so disappointed I tried the other the next night.

First night I used about 3mg of the 2021 batch. I immediately noticed the taste was different, much less bitter and lacking of the ammonia flavor I’d tasted with the good stuff.

The high was pretty much as everyone says the new meth to be… Very little euphoria, not much stimulation that honestly felt sleepy at times, and generally just cloudy headed. So different from what I was used to. The entire day was a disappointment.

Next day I tried the other batch. This one was a bit better but still very much lacking in the positive effects I seek.

This all seems so contradictory to what the government drug labs are telling us. I was talking with a relative in law enforcement who had word of a recent big meth bust in the area. He says it’s all coming back as the purest they’ve ever seen?..

Either they are lying or there’s some impurities in there which are inhibiting the meths effects.

I’d like, for the sake of both peoples health as well as their ability to get high, find the root to this problem. I believe if we can find a way to purify out butylamphetamine or whatever it is causing this, there’s lots of cheap meth to be had. The process just needs to be easy for the average person to do.

When first watching this phenomenon from a distance I thought it was just tolerance. But I’m someone with pretty much no tolerance, no history of abuse with meth, and I still have a little of the old 2018 batch of good stuff to remind me of what it’s supposed to feel like. I’m a believer!

-GC

Wow, that's interesting! So, as a teenager my aunt was a former major cook in the Southwest, until around '85 it all fell apart, she got caught, and her life was never the same. She went from living in a huge house with a pet monkey to prison, foodstuffs, etc. By '91/'92 I was myself a teenaged heroin addict (I grew up in Canada), and was sent south by my horrified father to get clean (she was supposedly a successful "ex-addict," in fact still using.) I was extremely dope-sick, going through dangerous places in the "War Zone," as it was known, in Albuquerque desperate to score some black tar heroin. I looked like a rich kid and am lucky I didn't get robbed and killed (only reason not, probably, because they all thought I was cop-bait!) MY aunt finally relented, likely preferring a continual addict to a corpse, and pulled out her bag of meth and gave me some. Usually, speedy drugs, like cocaine, would worsen my withdrawal; NOT this stuff! It was incredibly euphoric; a delight, completely erased my horrible heroin withdrawal, and left me feeling super wonderful. Obviously, that trip down south did nothing to solve my addiction problems, and I returned home to Montreal, at this time probably the best place to be in North America for heroin, all Thai #4 ( we were the port city responsiblefor supplying all of New York State with cocaine and heroin,) however methamphetamine was virtually unheard of there. I often traveled South, however (entire family was American), and everytime I returned to visit NM it was the same wonderful experience. This was local "biker" type product (supposedly yet almost certainly) and although it was indeed speed, it had an amazing, relaxing (not jangly) feeling, truly euphoric. The best I once had turned red when I hit it it with water for injection. Always smelled strongly, quite stinky.
Fast forward 3 decades, my heroin/opiate addiction had taken me to many dark places, ⅓ of my life in prison.

None of that had cured my addiction issues, I was now on methadone, smoking rocks. I was in western Canada and had a friend who occasionally went on historic meth binges, and happened to be visiting. NOWADAYS it was the huge, crystal clear shards (the old biker stuff was always powder, varied in color/tone and smell) all from (again supposedly, again highly likely) Mexican superlabs. For old times' sake, I decided to give it a try. Hadn't tried meth in 25+ years. I'm GLAD I weighed it, because I took what I expected to weigh a point (0.1g) and upon weighing found to be almost 0.3! So I made sure to reduce the dose to exactly 0.1g, and injected. WOW was it HORRIBLE!! WAY too strong (!!!), exactly zero euphoria for me; I was incredibly anxious, heart racing a mile a minute; as jangly, nerve-racking, and paranoic as could be. I ended up spending 6 hours under the shower. That was THAT for MY experience with the "new meth"! Interestingly, the old dope from tbe Southwest was SUPER pure. My aunt's cooks, when seized, were tested by LEA at 97% when seized; what she always had was produced by friends using the same recipe she had used. THIS mexidope is also well known to be incredibly pure. The difference can only be from process of manufacture, I can only imagine, one being the P2P route; the other, ephedrine was likely used to produce. During my teens, when experimenting with my aunt's meth, I remember I stopped at a truck stop on the highway outside Albuquerque, and at the time you could purchase unlimited numbers of 100 count bottles of "mini-crosses" or "white-crosses", pure ephedrine tablets, with no restrictions. I can only deduce the biker stuff must have used ephedrine, and how easy it must have been for them. I recall I bought two bottles and returned to Canada with them, where they sat in a drawer for years untouched.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Wow, that's interesting! So, as a teenager my aunt was a former major cook in the Southwest, until around '85 it all fell apart, she got caught, and her life was never the same. She went from living in a huge house with a pet monkey to prison, foodstuffs, etc. By '91/'92 I was myself a teenaged heroin addict (I grew up in Canada), and was sent south by my horrified father to get clean (she was supposedly a successful "ex-addict," in fact still using.) I was extremely dope-sick, going through dangerous places in the "War Zone," as it was known, in Albuquerque desperate to score some black tar heroin. I looked like a rich kid and am lucky I didn't get robbed and killed (only reason not, probably, because they all thought I was cop-bait!) MY aunt finally relented, likely preferring a continual addict to a corpse, and pulled out her bag of meth and gave me some. Usually, speedy drugs, like cocaine, would worsen my withdrawal; NOT this stuff! It was incredibly euphoric; a delight, completely erased my horrible heroin withdrawal, and left me feeling super wonderful. Obviously, that trip down south did nothing to solve my addiction problems, and I returned home to Montreal, at this time probably the best place to be in North America for heroin, all Thai #4 ( we were the port city responsiblefor supplying all of New York State with cocaine and heroin,) however methamphetamine was virtually unheard of there. I often traveled South, however (entire family was American), and everytime I returned to visit NM it was the same wonderful experience. This was local "biker" type product (supposedly yet almost certainly) and although it was indeed speed, it had an amazing, relaxing (not jangly) feeling, truly euphoric. The best I once had turned red when I hit it it with water for injection. Always smelled strongly, quite stinky.
Fast forward 3 decades, my heroin/opiate addiction had taken me to many dark places, ⅓ of my life in prison.

None of that had cured my addiction issues, I was now on methadone, smoking rocks. I was in western Canada and had a friend who occasionally went on historic meth binges, and happened to be visiting. NOWADAYS it was the huge, crystal clear shards (the old biker stuff was always powder, varied in color/tone and smell) all from (again supposedly, again highly likely) Mexican superlabs. For old times' sake, I decided to give it a try. Hadn't tried meth in 25+ years. I'm GLAD I weighed it, because I took what I expected to weigh a point (0.1g) and upon weighing found to be almost 0.3! So I made sure to reduce the dose to exactly 0.1g, and injected. WOW was it HORRIBLE!! WAY too strong (!!!), exactly zero euphoria for me; I was incredibly anxious, heart racing a mile a minute; as jangly, nerve-racking, and paranoic as could be. I ended up spending 6 hours under the shower. That was THAT for MY experience with the "new meth"! Interestingly, the old dope from tbe Southwest was SUPER pure. My aunt's cooks, when seized, were tested by LEA at 97% when seized; what she always had was produced by friends using the same recipe she had used. THIS mexidope is also well known to be incredibly pure. The difference can only be from process of manufacture, I can only imagine, one being the P2P route; the other, ephedrine was likely used to produce. During my teens, when experimenting with my aunt's meth, I remember I stopped at a truck stop on the highway outside Albuquerque, and at the time you could purchase unlimited numbers of 100 count bottles of "mini-crosses" or "white-crosses", pure ephedrine tablets, with no restrictions. I can only deduce the biker stuff must have used ephedrine, and how easy it must have been for them. I recall I bought two bottles and returned to Canada with them, where they sat in a drawer for years untouched.

The War Zone in Albuquerque is still bad, only now there is crime all over the city. I had stopped drinking and using drugs just before I moved to ABQ but any drug you wanted was easily available. In the Northeast section where I lived there was a gang war revenge shooting at a bus stop at a skate park lots of kids and teens would go to. It happened just after I had left NM.

Raw video from Los Altos skate park shooting | Teen killed at skate park fired first, cousin reportedly told police (Jan 27, 2016) More: http://www.abqjournal.com/712993/ Mom says he did not have a... | By Albuquerque JournalFacebook

Teen killed at skate park fired first, cousin reportedly told police (Jan 27, 2016) More: http://www.abqjournal.com/712993/ Mom says he did not have a...

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Doesn't most ephedrine/pseudoephedrine just get imported from Mexico, China, and India now?

I never used METH, 15mg of Dexedrine taken orally was strong enough, and I did not like the itching, nausea, and vomiting from prescription opiates.

 

[trevrett]

Good question: I know a few years back, maybe more like 10, a plane was intercepted in Mexico arriving from China or India, forget which, loaded with tons of ephedrine. So for a time they used it. The new stuff, however, is much more cheaply manufactured using the P2P process, the chemicals, again, being received from China. Now, however, with fentanyl also coming from China cheaply in bulk, (and without getting too conspiratorial,) whether this might be part of an effort from the CCP to weaken America's productivity, resolve and effectiveness in upcoming generations. Possible? I've heard crazier propositions!

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Most ephedrine coming in bulk to developing and undeveloped countries nowadays is first made quite useless for average chemists and for producing economically worth product, UN made sure of it.

As for meth being better back in good old days, well do you like eggs better from small mum n pops farm competing with other to get top grade eggs or do you like it them better from farm with 1 000 000 hens fed shit and hormones but selling it for 1/3 the price?

 

[SpiralusSancti]

whether this might be part of an effort from the CCP to weaken America's productivity, resolve and effectiveness in upcoming generations. Possible? I've heard crazier propositions!

ruling class in USA benefits from fent crisis more than CCP

Think of all the savings from 100 000 useless junkies less per year!!! Hard to beat that by giving them access to free and quality drugs, that’s just a wet-dream, it’s more humane and probably right thing to do but not economically sound. Yeah less crime bla, bla, you really think some milioners and billionaires live where zombies walk, nah.

 

[trevrett]

Most ephedrine coming in bulk to developing and undeveloped countries nowadays is first made quite useless for average chemists and for producing economically worth product, UN made sure of it.

As for meth being better back in good old days, well do you like eggs better from small mum n pops farm competing with other to get top grade eggs or do you like it them better from farm with 1 000 000 hens fed shit and hormones but selling it for 1/3 the price?

Great point! I do have to wonder though; this new shit at least looks more "professionally" produced, big clear shards of consistent appearance (the old shit varied widely in terms of appearance, consistency, and smell, as I mentioned my favorite turned, like, blood red when hit with water); little smell (the old shit really stank, and you could damned well taste it when you shot up), and tests in the high 90th percentile. So I can't help but think it must also have been produced by a very different process (wish I could ask my aunt, the only other "black sheep" in my family; she passed away in 2017 from an abscess gone awry on her arm, which turned septicemic. Use new rigs, guys, if you're gonna inject).
Man, I love farm fresh eggs with their gorgeous, deep dark-colored yolk - sure miss 'em (ironically, the last time I had those was in New Mexico as well, though of course well outside Albuquerque. My Uncle had a ranch out in Belen, just next to the Rio Grande). I take your point, absolutely. And I'm no chemist! I don't even play one on TV! But I've gotta wonder if mass-production of chemicals is a different ballgame? Purdue Pharma, while murdering bastards, sure did make a good product in mass bulk. I mean, the Mexican shit tests super pure. I can only deduct it must be due to a different balance of d/l isomers with the different production methods, no? And for the record, probably you and just about everyone here knows more about this shit than me: I ask humbly as a question.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Well if you ask me it has nothing to do with isomers and certainly nothing to do with some still undiscovered chemistry. Answer is in different impurities and possibly some left over ephedrine that makes for a nice synergy with meth.
Nice you had such a cool aunt, I hope she’s still rushing in the heaven.

 

[trevrett]

Thank you man, I loved her a whole lot. She was the only damned one in my entire family who understood me, and, I'm sad to say, when shit really got bad for me, I found out the hard way she was the only one who truly loved me unconditionally. Oh well, not really the place for sad stories, but I appreciate the sentiment, thank you very much. Kinda sad part is she struggled for 30 years bitterly with poverty, addiction, and unemployment as a felon in the U.S. (after the big lab bust in the 80s,) and finally, when she thought her Dad had disowned her and forgotten her decades before (a common theme in both our lives), she found out her father had died and left her half the inheritance (she has a POS brother, HUGE law enforcement fascist, who she expected most certainly would inherit everything.) Over a million $$$. She didn't even get to buy a damned new car before she got gravely ill, had her arm split open like a zipper through 3 surgeries, and was debating amputation before she died. Hesitated too long. Life can be fucked sometimes.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

really, really fucked but sometimes it shines bright too

 

[trevrett]

Absolutely true. If I hadn't suffered what I did, I'd have never encountered the two people I love most in this world right now; might be crazy, but I wouldn't trade the entire life of struggles for a successful life without them. I don't often quote song lyrics, it's kinda tacky, but here it goes:

You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometimes, well, you just might find
You get what you need

 

[sekio]

Meth chemistry has not changed in the last 30 years.

Hadn't tried meth in 25+ years. I'm GLAD I weighed it, because I took what I expected to weigh a point (0.1g) and upon weighing found to be almost 0.3! So I made sure to reduce the dose to exactly 0.1g, and injected. WOW was it HORRIBLE!! WAY too strong (!!!), exactly zero euphoria for me; I was incredibly anxious, heart racing a mile a minute; as jangly, nerve-racking, and paranoic as could be. I ended up spending 6 hours under the shower. That was THAT for MY experience with the "new meth"!

That's nothing at all to do with the composition of the meth. 100mg of meth for someone without an active tolerance is WAY too much. Medically, it is dosed at 5-10mg orally, and a recreational dose is more like 25mg-50mg. Oral use will also be more forgiving (slower onset) than smoked or IV use.

There is also a thread on reddit where a meth cook throws in his $.02 about what he thinks is going on, specifically indicating that he thinks that n-isopropylbenzylamine remains in the products distributed on the street in greater quantities than are reported. It could also be the ensemble effect of racemic-meth along with n-iso or other similar precursors or residual contaminants that cause the effects to swing away from stimulation into whatever the frankemeth effects are becoming.

Unfortunately, reliable research shows that N-isopropylbenzylamine is not present in meth, either as a cut or as synthesis impurity. Also, it is easily detectable by GC, and seems to lack any effects at all, negative or otherwise.

As for enantiometic purity, as I understand it, effectively all meth (at least where I live, Pacific Northwest) is dextrorotary. DL-meth (racemic) as I understand it, does not produce the usual shard like crystals.
Also, it is not very difficult to take racemic meth and separate the two isomers effectively totally using tartaric acid (very cheap). It is also easy enough to take the L-meth left over and racemize it back to 50/50 D/L. The separation and racemization can be repeated as many times as needed to yield D-meth from P2P
In addition, the common belief L-meth/L-amphetamine produce negative/tweaky effects.only holds true when you are dosing the pure L-isomer at much larger doses than the D- would be used at. When you look at the affinity for the monoamine transporters the L-isomer is only about 1/10 as effective as the D-isomer: meaning that even in racemic methamphetamine, the D-isomer will produce 95% of the activity and the L- only 5%.

Synthesis impurities: In general the synthesis of meth, though it can use some trace heavy metals (possibly small amounts of mercury in the reductive amination with aluminum) but they are not necessary and are also removed in later purification steps (distillation of the freebase).
The red phosphorous/iodine method produces a nasty reaction much, but again, methamphetamine is isolated from the mess in the synthesis. Most meth as a saleable product, IME is actually quite pure, often >95%.

Most ephedrine coming in bulk to developing and undeveloped countries nowadays is first made quite useless for average chemists and for producing economically worth product, UN made sure of it.

Do you have a reference for this claim? As far as I would imagine ephedrine is still the same purity and product as always. The paperwork is what's gotten more complicated.

As for P2P meth being "new", it's actually quite an old method, as I understand it the old school biker crank was racemic meth from P2P. As ephedrine and pseudoephedrine became more easily available, chemists switched to reducing those instead - both easier to acquire and operationally simpler, and as a boon it makes basically pure D-meth (depending on chiral purity of the ephedrine starter material, which is usually 95% D).
Chemically speaking though, D-meth produced from P2P and D-meth from ephedrine is identical. And isolating meth from its synthesis impurities is not difficult. It can even be recrystallized to purify it further.
None of the impurities would be active at the trace levels they may be present in either, IIRC.

So, TLDR: I got nothin'. But meth is meth no matter how you slice it.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

I have only seen "biker crank" which is a pink powder and smells of gasoline or acetone or some crap and cartel crystals which look pretty even though I am not a user. When I see them I gotta think, damn thats gotta be the good. As I would of a gram of E that was all one crystal and tested properly.

^So Sekio, in your experience; if you have any........Has the high from meth changed. Like only active ingredient coke and E and now H where you can basically cross them off the list of things you can expect to get and have a true experience with?

I have to admit meth is not my thing at all but if its going the way of the dinosaurs i wanna try it before it does lol.

 

[G_Chem]

Meth chemistry has not changed in the last 30 years.


That's nothing at all to do with the composition of the meth. 100mg of meth for someone without an active tolerance is WAY too much. Medically, it is dosed at 5-10mg orally, and a recreational dose is more like 25mg-50mg. Oral use will also be more forgiving (slower onset) than smoked or IV use.


Unfortunately, reliable research shows that N-isopropylbenzylamine is not present in meth, either as a cut or as synthesis impurity. Also, it is easily detectable by GC, and seems to lack any effects at all, negative or otherwise.

As for enantiometic purity, as I understand it, effectively all meth (at least where I live, Pacific Northwest) is dextrorotary. DL-meth (racemic) as I understand it, does not produce the usual shard like crystals.
Also, it is not very difficult to take racemic meth and separate the two isomers effectively totally using tartaric acid (very cheap). It is also easy enough to take the L-meth left over and racemize it back to 50/50 D/L. The separation and racemization can be repeated as many times as needed to yield D-meth from P2P
In addition, the common belief L-meth/L-amphetamine produce negative/tweaky effects.only holds true when you are dosing the pure L-isomer at much larger doses than the D- would be used at. When you look at the affinity for the monoamine transporters the L-isomer is only about 1/10 as effective as the D-isomer: meaning that even in racemic methamphetamine, the D-isomer will produce 95% of the activity and the L- only 5%.

Synthesis impurities: In general the synthesis of meth, though it can use some trace heavy metals (possibly small amounts of mercury in the reductive amination with aluminum) but they are not necessary and are also removed in later purification steps (distillation of the freebase).
The red phosphorous/iodine method produces a nasty reaction much, but again, methamphetamine is isolated from the mess in the synthesis. Most meth as a saleable product, IME is actually quite pure, often >95%.


Do you have a reference for this claim? As far as I would imagine ephedrine is still the same purity and product as always. The paperwork is what's gotten more complicated.

As for P2P meth being "new", it's actually quite an old method, as I understand it the old school biker crank was racemic meth from P2P. As ephedrine and pseudoephedrine became more easily available, chemists switched to reducing those instead - both easier to acquire and operationally simpler, and as a boon it makes basically pure D-meth (depending on chiral purity of the ephedrine starter material, which is usually 95% D).
Chemically speaking though, D-meth produced from P2P and D-meth from ephedrine is identical. And isolating meth from its synthesis impurities is not difficult. It can even be recrystallized to purify it further.
None of the impurities would be active at the trace levels they may be present in either, IIRC.

So, TLDR: I got nothin'. But meth is meth no matter how you slice it.

Hey Sekio

Check this thread out..

Stimulants - Maybe the Meth Has Changed?

I’d like to further entertain the idea Meth in the US has changed somehow. Before I continue I hope this isn’t a repeat but I tried looking a bit to not find anything. It appears there has been over the past 5yrs a shift in the way p2p is produced to the nitrostyrene method. Producing two...

bluelight.org

-GC