Mucuna pruriens not working

[richards2324]

Does anyone have any idea why mucuna pruriens would stop working? I was taking it for 10 days then it just stopped working. It happened right after i stopped taking my prescription medicine because I thought I found a natural alternative. I've tried taking it with green tea as it is supposed to catalyze mucuna's effects. It doesn't make any sense to me it would just randomly stop working. I'm ordering a new brand to try that along with starting to take green tea with it.

 

[sekio]

Can you elaborate? This is too vague for anyone to help.

What were you taking M.pruriens for? What dosage were you taking and how often?
When you say it was 'working', what do you mean by that? Do you have any objective measurements of success or are you basing it on how you feel?

What prescription medication did you stop taking? Did you talk to your doctor about it?

What other supplements and medications do you take?


If you notice your medication cocktail stops working after you stop taking one of the drugs, that is a pretty big red flag that the drug you stopped was responsible for providing good effects... and you should probably resume taking it.
This is especially true if it's an antidepressant or mood stabilizer you stopped taking!

 

[richards2324]

I was taking it for an antidepressant. I took it every day for 10 days then decided to come off my prescription medication (valproic acid and olanzapine, it wasn't working before i started taking the mucuna prurient anyway) and that's when it stopped working. It stopped working based on on I felt yes. I could feel the dopamine and norepinephrine rush through my system. This is the only supplement I was taking at the time. Although today I tried a different brand of Mucuna Pruriens and am taking He shou wu with it and SAM-e along with my prescription medication. It still isn't working even though I'm taking the medication now I'll give it some time though

 

[richards2324]

the prescription medication never gave me the rush feeling like the mucuna that's why I think it wasn't the prescription medication that was working.

 

[sekio]

the prescription medication never gave me the rush feeling

Considering you're taking two mood stabilizers... an antipsychotic and an antiepileptic, there's no reason to expect they would make you feel a "rush".

I could feel the dopamine and norepinephrine rush through my system.

Are you sure about that? It could have been your blood vessels dialating, or some sort of other stress response. Metabolism of M. purpriens is not instantaneous, it will take an hour or more for the LDOPA to be absorbed. And for that matter, most of it will be destroyed in the liver or blood stream before it reaches the brain.

If you were put on the meds for bipolar or seizure disorder it's possible that yoju were experiencing some sort of a manic episode... but again I don't ahve enough information to say.

Did you talk to your doctor about doing any of this?

 

[jammin83]

Not a good idea to stop taking olanzapine cold turkey. It takes a few days or even a week to kick in then but it sure aint fun. Mania can be a symptom of withdrawal.

From the wiki:

Withdrawal symptoms reported to occur after discontinuation of antipsychotics include nausea, vomiting, lightheadedness, diaphoresis, dyskinesia, orthostatic hypotension, tachycardia, nervousness, dizziness, headache, excessive non-stop crying, and anxiety.[53][54] Some have argued additional somatic and psychiatric symptoms associated with dopaminergic hypersensitivity, including dyskinesia and acute psychosis, are common features of withdrawal in individuals treated with neuroleptics.[55][56][57][58] Thus, some suggest the withdrawal process itself may be schizo-mimetic, producing schizophrenia-like symptoms even in previously healthy patients.[59]

 

[richards2324]

I'm not looking for doctor's approval. I've quit it cold turkey a few times and never had any problems with it. They thought I was manic but really I was just frantic because I needed help. I waited so long because I didn't believe in pharma. I know i'm not manic I do have severe anxiety though and always have especially around people. But that's not the point. I'm just confused as to why the mucuna isn't working. I've read this has been the case with a few people. I really did feel the rush when I took the mucuna though it was like an oxygen feeling. It seemed like it took about 15 min for full effects. I know i'm super low on dopamine because that and wellbutrin which works on dopamine have helped. I've experienced positive results with the two.

 

[sekio]

I know i'm super low on dopamine

If you were low on dopamine you wouldn't be able to coordinate muscular motion. You are missing the forest for the trees... "dopamine" is not the one variable in mental health.

confused as to why the mucuna isn't working.

because the body breaks down the LDOPA very rapidly upon administration, making it effectively placebo anyway?

 

[richards2324]

my body is going to compensate so it's not low but it is if you catch my drift. I feel like I'm suffocating which is what is happening it is very serious you can believe it or not but i'll die without more dopamine in my system. it wasn't a placebo effect. why would l-dopa breaking down rapidly effect it's absorption as it crosses the blood brain barrier?

 

[Ozle]

L-DOPA isn't supposed to give a rush, nor does oxygen, which is what you compared it to, for that matter. Even if you don't believe they were working very well (or at all), the fact that you felt a sudden fall in mood immediately after stopping two mood stabilisers at once is extremely unlikely to be just a coincidence. I have no idea how these two drugs interact, let alone how the combination of both might interact with L-DOPA, and that's without even considering the effect multiple sudden biochemical changes like this could have on your bipolar disorder; antidepressant monotherapy is in most cases a bad idea if you're bipolar (particularly type 1; I dunno which you are), and stopping your bipolar meds to start one is an even worse one. There are simply so many variables involved here that any explanation or advice somebody on this forum could provide is never going to be much more than speculation and guesswork.

A very, very simplistic guess at what might have happened is that L-DOPA did somewhat raise your mood from baseline, and that cold-turkeying both of your other meds threw your mood off your baseline and into depression, therefore you no longer feel a positive mood change from it. If that's the case, then you'll need to resume some kind of mood stabilisation med and wait until it all levels out before expecting to feel any sort of mood lift from a supplement.

Alternatively, many of the mood changes you felt could be down to bipolar disorder, withdrawal symptoms from either of the meds you stopped, or a combination of both. Again, I'd suggest resuming your meds for now and seeing if you can ride things out until your next doctor's appointment, then explaining any remaining problems to him and see if he has any suggestions. I know this sounds like laziness on my part, but it really isn't; even doctors have a hard enough time understanding and managing the actions and effects of each others' poly-drug therapy, so a group of random users on an Internet forum doesn't stand a chance.

What on earth made you think of using L-DOPA for bipolar anyway?

 

[sekio]

why would l-dopa breaking down rapidly effect it's absorption as it crosses the blood brain barrier?

If the L-DOPA is destroyed in your liver before it makes it to the blood, and the blood also degrades it as well, how will any LDOPA make it to the brain?

There's a reason people who are treated with LDOPA for parkinsons almost always take DOPA decarboxylase inhibitors...

 

[richards2324]

i wanted to use mucuna pruriens for l-dopa because i noticed taking wellbutrin made me feel better (the dopamine aspect (calming), not so much the norepinephrine stimulating part). a friend of mine also sent me an article about low dopamine since I experience apathy , anhedonia, etc. i seriously don't think the drop in mood was the meds i've stopped and started them a few times so i kind of know how it feels getting off them. i felt better each day taking the mucuna. But i suppose your right it would be pretty hard to pinpoint the exact cause. Thanks for the response.

 

[richards2324]

ozle^^