Morning glory seeds/LSA

[Cream Gravy?]

I have had two of my friends actually trip really hard on HBWR seeds, but I myself have only gotten sick. In my opinion, they're not worth doing, as most others have said. I'd say maybe one out of every 7 people might enjoy it. Probably less than that. Like Capatin Kratom said, the pain/reward ratio is terrible for LSA's.

 

[Flaga121]

I've ordered organic, CWE'd, scraped the coating, dosed rediculously high (as high as 900MGS IIRC and 12 HBWR).... in the end the "trip" was always a piece of shit, such a cheesy HS "trip" if you ask me... the reward/pain ratio is just never worth it, no matter how much advil, ondansetron, tylenol.... whatever you throw in. If you have access to traditional/Rc psychs there's really no excuse to take LSA's lol.

Heh, goes to show you how different two people can react to the same substance. I always relate pretty strongly when you talk about psychedelics because you have a rare combination of practical and theoretical knowledge that I tend to value heavily. So I know you didn't do anything wrong when prepping or taking the substance, which is nice, lots of times I take online psych reports with a grain or two of salt because there are so many variables most people don't come close to understanding. In this case what gets me is that while I DO NOT enjoy LSA in any real way, I found the trip RATHER intense. Not a drug I'd call High school from the trips I've had. I feel far more comfortable with high doses of LSD then low doses of LSA, and not because of the sickness. I found the trip uncontrollable, went from euphoric to horribly dysphoric in a moment.

I would never recommend it as a recreational substance (though I did once rage an STS9 show on HBW and coke) but for me it was a must have experience in terms of learning about myself and psychedelics as a whole. I used to fancy myself a bit of a bit of a psychonaut.

 

[《Plasticity》]

Meh, regardless of the dose or preperation the experience was shallow at best. The main effects were sleepiness, insane gut cramps and nausea, lot's of vomiting and dry heaving, a tease of a headspace, and the subtlest, worst visuals I've ever gotten from a psychedelic and they actually increased the day after the experience and lingered for at least a month after (I've only ever had this problem with 2c-i and LSA and LSA was the worst). The vasoconstriction was also unreal in high doses to the point where walking 10 steps to go pee made me feel like I ran a damn marathon lol... I can put up with bodyload if the experience is valuable but for me the experience was trash and even as a highschooler at the time I felt silly for constantly trying to utilize this drug only to put myself through torture, I honestly tried LSA like 10 times. Of course YMMV and I knew that many would disagree as soon as I made the post but I just feel that maybe I can save the OP from wasting a first trip on something like LSA *shudders*.... There are far better leagal psychedelics over the web if legality/sources are the issue.

 

[treezy z]

LSA is nasty as hell and i was only able to really get off on it when combined with dxm and weed (which probably isn't safe due to vacoconstriction.)

it's weak and causes cramps and nausea. these days with the abundance of RCs even if you can't get the classics (acid, shrooms, dmt etc) you should be able to get something better.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

Hmmmm I never got sick unless I ate the seeds. If I just chewed and spit it seemed to be way more psychedelic and had very little to zero nausea. The muscle cramps were still a bitch though. Everybody that chewed got bad cramps.
Yeah, I can't see myself chewing anymore seeds when there are an abundance of 4 subbed Typtamines available.

 

[Flaga121]

Missed the first trip part of this story. Yes don't do that. Terrible idea for a first trip so unpredictable.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

I

LSA is for teens,who either cant score real acid,cant afford it or just want to use something legaly sold in their local trip shop


I never met someone who was like"yo dawg,listen ma nigga,aint feelin like doin LSD,DOx,25x or 2c-x today,bring the puking bucket we gonna get high on LSA"

You know how dumb that sounds, right? Ok, I admit you are right...I was a teen when I ate them and I only ate them because the cool kids wouldn't sell me LSD back then but the plant the morning glory plant is a very respected and ancient psychedelic and the people who eat it in Mexico are not just dumb teens. In fact, Rivea Corymbosa is considered more desirable than mushrooms among many Shamans in Mexico....it is also the only psychedelic available in many areas year round since the mushrooms only appear in the rainy season.

Moreover, if you are eating 'heavenly blue' seeds you are eating a plant bred for flowers and not psychedelic potency. I have never seen authentic wild Ipomoea violencia for sale anywhere, but the Rivea Corymbosa seed on the market (which is very expensive) is at least twice as potent as morning glory heavenly blue seed..... not to mention most people report little or no sickness with it. Authentic Ipmomea violencia would be a nice thing to get because it is said to be twice as potent compared to R. Corymbosa.

 

[Xorkoth]

It's possible to have a deep, beautiful trip from LSA, either from morning glory seeds or hawaiian baby woodrose (or rivea corymbosa)... however the bodyload can be quite intense, and the nausea as well especially if you just eat the seeds. Also, as people mentioned, buying packs from Wal-Mart or other mass merchandise stores will usually result in getting seeds coated in poison. If you do want to pursue this, it's best to find an online ethnobotanical supplier and obtain seeds free of poison. It'll be a lot cheaper that way too.

I disagree that LSA is just "for teens". It's got the potential to be a great trip, I have had one that was beautiful, euphoric and totally worthwhile. But there are a lot of factors to consider and it's pretty difficult to get a good trip from them usually. I have had several LSA trips (all when I was 21 or older), and all but 1 of them were pretty unpleasant.

 

[phuckingnutz]

Most peopletend to hate HBWR seeds, however, I. had one of my most intense trips ever on 45-50 HBWR seeds. I had never tried them before and didn't realize 50 seeds was a heavy dose.
I dealt with mild nausea but that was it...weed helps that tho.
I made sure my seeds were fresh and of high viability, put em in a coffee grinder capped 'em up and ...down the hatch.
It took a couple hours before full effects were felt but it was one HELL of a ride.
SO GO FOR IT...LSA CAN be awesome.

 

[Xorkoth]

It also lasts quite a long time, 10 hours or more, and it takes 4 hours to peak. Before the peak it will likely feel shaky, with anxiety possible and nausea/bodyload likely. As with all psychedelics, if you can handle the come-up and not succumb to anxiety, the anxiety and bodyload tend to dissipate once full effects are reached. However, if you succumb to the come-up issues, then the trip can fail to fully develop and you'll be left with the anxiety and bodyload for the whole time. Having such a long come-up can make it more difficult to "get on top of" the trip.

 

[《Plasticity》]

LSA just isnt for everyone and it is definately not the wisest choice as a first psychedelic. I know if I had taken LSA as a first psychedelic I likely would've been scared off psychedlics, not cuz it' too intense but from the sometimes worrying bodyload is seriously bad for most people, me included, and pushing the dose to achieve better effects only makes the bodyload worse and at some times worrying like the amount of vasoconstriction I get on even (+)doses which is lime 400MGS or 5 HBWR (which btw feels totally different from MGS) . I understand that a small select few exlerience little side-effects but I seriously gave HBWR and MGS seeds over 10 times and using EVERY TEK and different suppliers (all organic) and the experience was most deinately childs play.

When I read a select few good trip reports my goal was to achieve some sort of success so despite feeling like SHIT everytime I took the seeds I would try a new vendor, new strain, use every ROA, took ondansetron, low dose hydro for vasoconstriction, weed... the list can go on I was just never able to achieve anything but a weak ass trip with visuals that were no stronger than maybe a threshold dose of L. Even with 900mgs of MGS and 12 HBWR. Either way I just don't feel this is a good first psychedelic as reports seem to be off the wall but for the most part I think many people just find this drug as too much bodyload for two little trip, YMMV

Ps: just because ancient cultures respected LSA you got to keep in mind that they didn't have a wide choice of psychedelics to choose from nowadays and aren't there cultures that respect nutmeg, datura, and that toad venom with neurotoxins? Were in the new age and have access to hundreds of psychs with way more potential than LSA, LSD for example. YMMV..

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Me too. Hate is a strong word but I'd rather do the other morning glory if I was gonna do that sorta thing. I've had some decent trips with it, but it's very hit or miss and even the decent ones were not like the mexican morning glory type of high (which heavenly blue are bred from). Baby woodrose seeds are more somatic in nature/different alkaloidal profile.

And my goodness man, 50 seeds? I stupidly ate 30 once and thought I was gonna die (these seeds were potent and 8 or so was enough for a strong +++). Still to this day, that 30 woodrose seed trip was one of the strongest and weirdest trips I've ever had. The place it sent me to was not particularly colorful or full of Oneness like mushrooms or a good dose of morning glory.

Most peopletend to hate HBWR seeds, however, I. had one of my most intense trips ever on 45-50 HBWR seeds. I had never tried them before and didn't realize 50 seeds was a heavy dose.
I dealt with mild nausea but that was it...weed helps that tho.
I made sure my seeds were fresh and of high viability, put em in a coffee grinder capped 'em up and ...down the hatch.
It took a couple hours before full effects were felt but it was one HELL of a ride.
SO GO FOR IT...LSA CAN be awesome.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

I read a report on Erwoid of a guy getting gout in his legs from 25 seeds, so I'd be extremely careful pushing the dose. HBWR felt super toxic to me even at seven seeds, so just be careful OP. You might not die, but you could do terrible damage if you're not careful.

 

[phuckingnutz]

I read a report on Erwoid of a guy getting gout in his legs from 25 seeds, so I'd be extremely careful pushing the dose. HBWR felt super toxic to me even at seven seeds, so just be careful OP. You might not die, but you could do terrible damage if you're not careful.

Probably gangrene instead of gout...due to vasoconstriction...ergot is said to be dangerous for this reason.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Probably gangrene instead of gout...due to vasoconstriction...ergot is said to be dangerous for this reason.

Yeah, I likely remembered wrong. None the less, this guy essentially had bile accumulating in his legs. Be careful. I've messed with HBWR seeds too, just not at heroic doses like that.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

I had this discussion the other day on a FB group I am in. Things like sleepy grass, ipomoea seed, and the ergot claviceps paspali only feature the water soluble simple amides of lysergic acid....not things like ergotamine which are ergotoxin/ergopeptide group of compounds.

A gentleman there pointed out that ergometrine (aka ergonovine) can cause St. Anthony's Fire (aka ergot poisoning) but I see no evidence anywhere that this can be true. Ergonovine is present only as a trace molecule in the seed...and A. Hoffman and others have taken up to 10mg of this drug (which begins to have psychedelic effects at about 2mg) in order to explore the Elysian Mysteries theory. They did experience leg cramps but no gangrene and considering a dose of seed only has a couple tens of micrograms of this compound...I say any chance of St. Anthony's fire from eating ergoline-containing seeds is a myth that has been debunked.

 

[red22]

Yeah, only a few like the above 2 posters have mentioned "prepping" in passing and that these seeds are often coated in Cyanide.

About 13-14 years ago when I was much less informed I just bought a whole bunch of MGS and BHWs and ate them all.

It turned out that the vendors had coated them with Cyanide which they often do to prevent kids from eating them which pisses me off.

It's like, yeah, we don't want kids tripping so lets put POISON on them and then they may still eat the seeds but actually do REAL harm to themselves.

Source?

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Source?

I'm gonna assume that's BS because back in the day I used to call seed companies to ask them about this and was assured on a number of occasions (I called the big three) that this was not true. My only source is my good name but I assure you they did a good job of convincing me that what they were telling me was how it is.

 

[red22]

I had this discussion the other day on a FB group I am in. Things like sleepy grass, ipomoea seed, and the ergot claviceps paspali only feature the water soluble simple amides of lysergic acid....not things like ergotamine which are ergotoxin/ergopeptide group of compounds.

So what does contain ergopeptines?

Ergot infected grasses do contain ergopeptines. It is only Convolvulaceae plants and seeds that do not contain them (they contain the ergoline subtypes, lysergamides and clavines). You're correct when you say that it is likely that only ergopeptines are capable of causing gangrene. Eich E, 2008 says that the ergopeptine, ergovaline is what causes gangrene.

the powerful constrictor effect of ergovaline causing such gangrenes is mediated by activation of vascular 5-HT1B/1D and 5-HT2A receptors (Schöning et al. 2001).

Schöning C, Flieger M, Pertz HH (2001) Complex interaction of ergovaline with 5-HT2A, 5-HT1B/1D, and alpha1 receptors in isolated arteries of rat and guinea pig. J Animal Sci 79:2202-2209 DOWNLOAD


Eich, Eckart (2008). Solanaceae and Convolvulaceae: Secondary Metabolites: Biosynthesis, Chemotaxonomy, Biological and Economics Significance (a Handbook), p. 250
This is included in my information archive on MG seeds, linked to at the end of this post. All the references in this post are included in my archive.

Ergonovine is present only as a trace molecule in the seed

Also known as ergometrine.

I've been meaning to do calculations on this, but it looks like it's found in greater than trace amounts:

Source: Gröger D. (1963) Über das Vorkommen von Ergolinderivaten in Ipomoea-Arten. Flora 153:373–382 DOWNLOAD

Source?

I'm gonna assume that's BS because back in the day I used to call seed companies to ask them about this and was assured on a number of occasions (I called the big three) that this was not true. My only source is my good name but I assure you they did a good job of convincing me that what they were telling me was how it is.

Two people on The Shroomery reported emailing Burpee and asking them if the seeds were coated with anything. Both of them said Burpee told them no.

There's also this:

It has been suggested⁶ that the insecticide coating on the morning glory seed might be promoting adverse side effects that have been noted. The majority of commercial seeds are treated with N-tri-chlorete which is a fungicide and seed protectant having a tolerance of 100 parts per million.⁸ Thus, this is quite an inocuous product from the toxicologic point of view and would require ingestion of quantities beyond the capacity of the stomach to absorb, in amounts found as a seed coater, to be considered lethal.⁹ Symptoms involving the nervous system would be lacking if we were dealing only with the effects of this fungicide. Formerly, compounds containing mercury were used extensively as fungicides and there is the possibility that some seeds so treated might pose a toxicologic danger if ingested. This is considered unlikely as the newer seed protectants have been in use for a considerably longer period than the current morning glory fad.

It would seem then, that both the psychological and physiological effects observed in the ingestion of the seed of the morning glory reside in the alkaloids of the seed and not the seed protectant. The LSD-like reaction is most likely due to the LSD-like alkaloids for no pure LSD has as yet been isolated from the seed. As all compounds occurring in the morning glory seed have not been studied intensively enough to inspire confidence in their respective roles, they cannot yet be considered for scientific experimental use much less be used irresponsibly in excitement-seeking self-experimentation.

6. Cohen, S.: Suicide Following Morning Glory Seed Ingestion, Amer J Psychiat 120:1024-1025 (April) 1964.

8. Frear, D.E.H.: Pesticide Handbook, State College, Pa: College Science Publishers, 1963, p 8.

9. Frear, D.E.H.: Personal communication to the author, July, 1964.
JAMA, Dec 28, 1964 • Vol 190, No 13


Ingram AL (1964): Morning glory seed reaction. J. Amer. reed. Ass. 190, 1133–1134. doi:10.1001/jama.1964.03070260045019


Information archive on morning glory seeds.

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/entries/7141-morning-glory-seed-information-archive

Contents:

NSFW:

human trials of isolated lysergamides
alkaloid-specific info
chemical analyses of morning glory seeds
morning glory seeds and their connection to ergot-related fungi
naming issue, Ipomoea violacea/Ipomoea tricolor
publications
vasoconstriction and other somatic effects
cyanogenic glycosides
insight into extraction methods
is there a toxin(s) found in the fuzzy outer layer of A Nervosa seeds?
ololiuhqui, spelling and pronunciation
misc
cultivation
preparation method used by the mesoamericans
synthesis of lysergic acid amide
animals tripping on morning glory seeds
are morning glory seeds treated with a fungicide or a deterrent?
good resource for scientific articles

 

[alf meneas]

I'm really amazed reading other people's takes on lsa-containing seeds. I've only ever eaten HBW, just scraped the fuzz off them and chewed (for some time) then swallowed. I've probably only eaten them a handful of times but three experiences stand out in my memory.

One was probably the only 'negative' experience I had with them, the flat I was staying in seemed to become incredibly hectic and I was hyper-sensitive to any noise. I unplugged the washing machine in the middle of someone's wash, but the cars passing a couple of streets away were still too much to bear. Couldn't deal with any music. That was a bummer, but a friendly person talked me into a happy space.

Another was similar in that I was at a small gathering at someone else's place, people drinking and talking etc. as I came up. I couldn't really deal with the scene and went out for a walk, sat under a tree and shared tree-thoughts with it for a few hours.

The third I remember was a beautiful night sat 'on watch' where I was staying on a beach with friends. They bedded down by the fire and I sat up watching the fire, the waves, the rocks. Beautiful.

Granted the trips were 'mild' compared to some of the wild and wooly explorations that are recounted round here, but they were enjoyable, and 'meaningful'. I had some psychedelic farts and belly bubbles each time but never any significant nausea or physical discomfort (save my noise sensitivity, which was really just an amplification of something I experience normally).

I'd say I ate between 5 and 8 seeds on each occasion, from different sources I think, but probably all purchased in Dutch smartshops.