Health Microdosing is no more effective than placebo

[Snafu in the Void]

No difference between psilocybin microdosing and placebo, trial finds

With psychedelics well and truly hitting the mainstream, scientists are finally subjecting many anecdotal claims to the rigors of clinical research. The phenomenon of microdosing is one of those well-known psychedelic practices that many advocates ardently suggest leads to numerous improvements in…

newatlas.com

I've always suspected this. Microdosing was always highly overrated IMO, just like the CBD craze.

I always had suspicion that the benefits were psychological in nature if anything... I mean, how the hell do you quantify things like "a minor boost to creativity"?

 

[pupnik]

@Negentropic
I think the dose was a bit low in their test, and their interpretation of their results is skewed

note this detail:

“… we found that psilocybin microdosing resulted in an underestimation of time, whereas we would have expected that it would dilate time perception,” explains van Elk. “We found this by using a so-called temporal reproduction task, in which participants were instructed to reproduce short temporal intervals. This task is difficult to fake and thus we are quite confident that these findings are not driven by participants breaking blind, but reflect some low-level effect of the psilocybin microdose on temporal perception.”

I have extensively reported that the prime effect of psychedelics is an extension of signal pulse sequence fade-out in the brain.
particularly the duration of feedback between the thalamus and cortex
this means that the experience of a moment ago lingers as a layer while the current moment is experienced.
the layered mind is fundamentally more "creative" in that combinations that escape perception normally are exposed.

a side effect of this is that the sense of time passing is affected, and in high dose cases, the experience of time passing seems to stop.

I am not disputing their measurement taking, just the pertinence of their observations.
scientists are people too, in this case they just don't realize that they found the evidence they claim is missing.

maybe they should have a peak at this https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27446374

Memory and perception is made possible by the unique organization of thalamus to cortex such that neurons are hardwired to fire back at each other in these two structures, turning each (sensory or mental) neural stimulus into a pulse sequence that is 6-10 pulses normally (more when stoned - yielding frame stacking of experience), and this pulse train powers cortical interference fields or electric waves that makes engram linkages possible across the cortex via branched pyramidal axons that only make new links with activated cortical neurons (those currently in feedback with the thalamus). I have also come to see that attention focusing is a mental dexterity feature (frontal cortex to hypothalamus to thalamus) that suppresses the TC feed back pump in areas of sensation and thinking.

Most inquiry into brain research is not orthogonal, i.e. it is not accompanied with a testable model of memory formation and perception.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

I'll be honest, I didn't read the article, just saw it while rushing to work. Now I'm curious.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

shit trial fake news learn to run a real fucking study

 

[Mjäll]

Microdosing is pretty much homeopathy.

Why not take a low/medium dose if a high dose is scary? At least it will do something. Such doses seem to be largely underestimated, while ineffective microdoses have been hyped for years.

 

[pupnik]

@Mjäll
not homeopathy,
microdosing it is the most *convenient* (convenient in that it has the effect you want/need) dose for highest frequency repeated self administration
anything less than 20 mics (lysergamide) can be taken every 3rd day, less than 10 mics and you can take it every day but will barely feel it.

 

[Mjäll]

@Mjäll
not homeopathy,
microdosing it is the most *convenient* (convenient in that it has the effect you want/need) dose for highest frequency repeated self administration
anything less than 20 mics (lysergamide) can be taken every 3rd day, less than 10 mics and you can take it every day but will barely feel it.

Is there any point to high frequency repeated administration as such?

I thought the point was the psychedelic effects, not the cumulative intake of a certain compound.

 

[Nas47]

Is there any point to high frequency repeated administration as such?

I thought the point was the psychedelic effects, not the cumulative intake of a certain compound.

For me microdosing with shrooms,cacti or iboga goes well in most cases.can feel the effect,but thats a more low dose than microdose.AD effect is all i want and low dose psych.are superior than ssri or snri.For me

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Why not take a low/medium dose if a high dose is scary? At least it will do something. Such doses seem to be largely underestimated, while ineffective microdoses have been hyped for years.

pretty much sums up my opinion

I'm quite opinionated on it, most of the random people I know IRL who praise microdosing are typically also the people very hesitant to take a medium/full dose

I really don't want to bash microdosing too much, I'm not completely discounting it, but all of my microdosing attempts ended up being either negative or neutral

I realize it also sounds a bit elitist or gatekeeping.

 

[pupnik]

Is there any point to high frequency repeated administration as such?

I thought the point was the psychedelic effects, not the cumulative intake of a certain compound.

certainly not cumulative total intake, but for me, who is not treating any perceived disability, I do not like to step too far from the enriched psychedelic mindspace.
I do strongly feel 12-20 mics every 3rd day or so, but can always drive a car if necessary and answer the phone, and have energy to do any normal things, while having the mindspace to enjoy things with a certain freshness, something that is not as easily attained any other way. (a jekyll hyde that is nondestructive)

I do want to experience some sparkle with as much regularity as I can without paying for it with bouts of physical debilitation. Doing it more often blunts its benefit. I am also at one or 2 tokes of hash (or up to 20mg water soluble thc) per day which makes me a bit more sleepy but does not detract. I drink less than one glass of wine per day socially if I have to for the taste not the dulling effect.

In this way, and with exercise and daily sitting, I am in the middle of my cultured consciousness - a mildly psychedelic time worm of a person with some consistency.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

No difference between psilocybin microdosing and placebo, trial finds

With psychedelics well and truly hitting the mainstream, scientists are finally subjecting many anecdotal claims to the rigors of clinical research. The phenomenon of microdosing is one of those well-known psychedelic practices that many advocates ardently suggest leads to numerous improvements in…

newatlas.com

I've always suspected this. Microdosing was always highly overrated IMO, just like the CBD craze.

I always had suspicion that the benefits were psychological in nature if anything... I mean, how the hell do you quantify things like "a minor boost to creativity"?

I wrote this before in another thread and people kept attacking me saying I was completely incorrect about how microdoses of LSD are useless and do not really do anything.

 

[pupnik]

well they do do something even if you wrote that.
even if well educated people claim that it does not parse as true by their contrived information capture process.
I say the process needs more work.

 

[Ismene2]

I never got too into microdosing - always thought it would fuck your tolerance for a real trip.

But I certainly think microdosing psychedelics is far safer, healthier and effective than any other anti-depressant drug. All of the results from SSRI's were faked - as well as being no more effective than a sugar pill they also have terrible side-effects that psychedelics don't.

 

[JackARoe]

I wrote this before in another thread and people kept attacking me saying I was completely incorrect about how microdoses of LSD are useless and do not really do anything.

I have always felt this way too Priest. It reminds me of "take the high out of the high" that the whole CBD things is. My father is 88 and uses CBD. I could never get him to try actual cannabis though. But yeah, the high = BAD. The medicine = GOOD. Puritanical nonsense. (now they are talking about "taking the trip out of the trip")

So with microdosing I felt the same way. And I still do. However my mind changed a little on the John Hopkins studies that microdosing "may" help regenerate parts of the brain that are destroyed by dementia. The studies are fascinating. It made me realize that if parts of the brain can break down, we can find a way to regenerate. So that changed my stance but it was John Hopkins that did it. They outlined it well. Logical and concise.

But I say take BIG trip. See what happens then. Then if you want to microdose go ahead.

@pupnik is a gem of BL. Posts are pure gold!!

 

[Ismene2]

Well, microdoses can definately make you feel better within an hour or two - theres no doubt about that. And no other anti-depressant can match that.

How the fuck can something be no better than a "placebo" when within an hour you are feeling as happy as fuck? I havnt read the study but on first glance it strikes me as a load of hairy old bollocks. Ive been as happy as fuck on microdoses so one thing is absolutely certain - theyre better than placebo.

 

[Ismene2]

The study only lasted 3 weeks too - it took psilocybin longer than that to cure my depression when I was taking 15-20 dried grams every weekend.

Remember this guy is working at a university funded largely by government grants - if your studies start proving illegal drugs have benefits your funding will dry up like a motherfucker.

 

[Pandamonia]

This is a weird coincidence. Microdosing is exactly what I came here to ask a question about, and here's this thread. So what the heck, may as well chip in.

I'm very new here, so none of you know me, and I realize you have no reason to assign any credibility to me. But I've been almost accidentally experimenting with psilocybin microdosing for several weeks now, and I'm amazed at how effective it is. And it is absolutely not a placebo effect.

Long story short, my wife has some psychiatric issues that she strongly feels may be helped by microdosing. She got ahold of an ounce "Golden Teacher" shrooms, and I started experimenting with tiny doses in order to determine the smallest perceptible amount of the mushrooms. I know that there can be variances in potency between different parts of the mushroom which don't matter when you're eating a whole gram or more, but may be consequential when microdosing, so I ground some of them into very fine powder and mixed it well so that the powder would have a consistent psilocybin profile across the entire bag of ground mushroom. Then i started taking doses of about 20 to 50 mg, and assessing the effects.

I tried this about a half dozen times, 4 days apart, and I was amazed at what a substantial effect it had on me. So amazed that even though she still hasn't tried them, I'm still microdosing every 3-5 days, because I'm so greatly enjoying how differently I feel than I usually do. I didn't even think I had any issues that I needed help with (and actually still don't feel I did/do), but my mental energy and focus, my mood, and even my vocabulary have benefited remarkably. I understand complex issues more quickly and completely, plan and schedule much better, and I feel like my IQ has jumped about 10 points (I know it hasnt; just saying I feel much more intelligent). I'm a professional writer, and my writing has improved significantly over the last month or two - and that's not just my imagination; people I work with or just communicate with on a regular basis have remarked on how much they enjoy reading even e-mails from me lately. Both my creativity and my ability to explain complex points clearly and succinctly are noticeably better, and my verbal abilities have improved as much as my writing has.

Even my sleep is better. I get to sleep more easily, wake up earlier and more easily, and sleep far fewer hours now - 5-7, rather than the 8-11 I've fallen into the habit of over the last couple of years because working from home is boring as shit.

So what i mean by "accidentally" microdosing is that I never intended to actually microdose for my own benefit; I wasn't trying to achieve any goal other than to evaluate the potency of this strain. I wasn't expecting any result at all; I didn't think I had anything that needed fixing to begin with! Lol. I don't understand how or why it could have such a profound effect on me, but I do find it fascinating, and intend to continue with this for quite some time. I'm also planning to experiment with DMT microdosing at some point, but want to explore the shroom experience a little more thoroughly first.

I should also add that I am a regular user of kratom, and have been for some years - 2 or 3 times a day, 3-5 grams, roughly 5 days a week or so... sometimes 4, sometimes 6. Also supplements like alcar, pqq, GABBA, and various other things, so whether that may be a factor, who knows? Maybe those things have some sort of effect on brain chemistry that enhances the effect of psilocybin?

Anyway, like I say... none of you know me (far as I know), so you have no reason to take this as gospel. Maybe you think it's bullshit, but like I say, I don't know any of you, so I don't care much! But it is what it is, and I figure as long as I'm here I'll throw it into the conversation.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

@Pandamonia what doses were you taking to microdose? you don't mention that

it sounds like you started venturing past threshold doses and were having some minor effects?

I'm glad you had good effects

 

[Pandamonia]

@Pandamonia what doses were you taking to microdose? you don't mention that

it sounds like you started venturing past threshold doses and were having some minor effects?

I'm glad you had good effects

Initially, roughly 50 mgs, near as I can tell. The scale I'm using doesn't have a lot of credibility at really loiw weights, so I weighed out 200 mgs and divided it into quarters as accurately as I could. Been doing that with various powders all my life, so I think I got it pretty close.

But at that strength, I could feel the psilocybin more strongly than I liked, because I want my wife to start out really small and work herself up. She's literally less than half my size. So now I have it down to roughly 20 mg, and I still feel more benefits every time I do it - starting the next day. I continue to feel great for 2 or 3 days, and start the cycle over with another microdose.

 

[Vastness]

Doesn't surprise me in the slightest but this doesn't necessarily mean that it's ineffective. If positive outcomes are balanced out by counterproductive outcomes it could still be effective for some but statistically no better than placebo on average for the metrics measured. Right? Maybe I'm clutching at straws.