Methoxetamine for my dog's hip pain.

[thizzkid]

Well the title basically says it;

before reprehending me though here's the basic story.

He is 12 year-old black lab who can barely walk any more and is going to die in the next few months. In those last few months or whatever time he does have left it pains me to see him falling all over the place and basically to see him unable to support his own weight. He can't go on walks anymore, needs help getting up onto a bed/couch etc. It's quite sad and while not unexpected by any means, I don't want the poor guy in this kind of pain all the time but he also hasn't crossed that line where it' time to put him down. He takes Rovera (5mg) each morning but I can tell he still has a hard time.

Before I go and try something like this if I even do at all I was just curious what others out there think about this. I know ketamine i used for anesthesia for some animals but Im not sure which animals and what doses, and regardless extrapolating that data to MXE isn't easy.

TBCH I probably won't end up doing this at all, but for curiosities sake, does any one out there with a veterinary background have any insight on this? I know for me personally, MXE is a much better pain killer than opiates or anti-inflammatory drugs are but in the case of hip pain in an old-aged Labrador if you had to guess what the correct dose for pain management using mxe would be please write it below.

Again, CHANCES ARE I WON'T BE DOING THIS AT ALL!!! DON'T CHASTISE ME, IT'S A REASONABLE QUESTION!

Thank you and I look forward to hearing what people say.

edit:
What happened after this thread is that I begged my mom to overcome her denial and bring my dog (Chip) in to the vet.

The Vets response was that he took him off rovera and gave him tramadol as a mediator while we shifted his medication to prednisone.

The Tramadol went on for roughly a week before stopping it and going onto the steroid treatment which has done wonders for him. He still has mobility issues no doubt but the quality of life in him is much, much higher than it was

 

[endotropic]

I don't like this idea for a number of reasons:

1) Drugs like MXE reduce coordination, so even if your dog feels better temporarily he might hurt himself more in the long term.
2) When doctors use ketamine in patients that can't understand its mental effects (e.g. children) it tends to produce terrifying nightmares. You can't know the mental experience your dog has, but he might have a very difficult time processing MXE's effects.
3) When vets use ketamine they use it to knock an animal out entirely (anesthetic) not to reduce pain (analgesic). Other drugs the vet can give you will help control his pain without so many side effects.

 

[herbavore]

Have you talked to your vet about a time release pain patch? My sister is a veterinarian that regularly dispenses these for animals in pain. I am opposed to people experimenting on their animals with substances that may induce one reaction in humans yet may have no correlation in animals (endo's #2 point). Trusting your vet to handle the pain issues is the safest route for your dog. Vets do not have the same prejudices as human doctors when it comes to pain control and they also study animal anatomy and neurology. I'm not sure if we have any veterinarians posting on BL but hopefully we do and we can get their opinions. I think this is better suited to Neuroscience and Pharmacology so I am moving it there.

 

[sekio]

Don't give your dog MXE, it is an anesthetic, not an analgesic.

 

[Bagseed]

imho, if the dog is in a state where it can't walk anymore and is in constant pain, it's time. we did it, when our boy started to puke white foam

I know it's hard (been there), but you're not doing him a favour by waiting much longer.

 

[thizzkid]

(This is on my phone so excuse any misspells or whatever)

Endo, yea I know it fucks up coordination, but Im talking a therapeutic dose for him like at most a milligram or two.

Its actualy not even my dog its the family dog; but it was a curiosity of mine.

Im just home this summer and my mom works every day and doesn't see the kinda pain hes in during the day, she just sees how happy he is when she comes home and it's like of course hes happy to see her, and that happieness is what keeps her from bringing him in to have him put down, which is a conversation Im going to have with her ASAP, but for now i just want him as comfortable as possible and I know MXE at least in my human experience has had great pain relieving effects under the dose at which you would use it to get high.

Of course this is a far-cry to apply it to a dog in pain and like my first post said I probably wont do anything at all Im just a curious person.

Also Yea, I agree. Im against experimenting on my animlas too.
And of course if I were to ever to anything like this it wouldnt be more than like 1 or 2mg in his food. Not to anesthize him, just provide support to the novera.
Another thing; I said 5mg, he takes 75mg my mistake, I forgot the 7 in the OP.

Its such a hard kind of call though.
Thank you guys though so far.
A lot of people would just start getting snippy at me for posting something like this.

 

[pofacedhoe]

cannabis? less toxic and i've known dogs to eat ounces then be fine after being sleepy for a day or two.

pick a nicer drug with a better safety profile that when you are sick makes you feel a lot less shit. plus animals gravitate towards eating weed

 

[spacejunk]

Dont self-medicate your dog, compassionate as your intentions may be.

 

[Mysterie]

also.. im sure i read that cannabis is toxic for dogs.

 

[Bearlove]

Tramadol would be better for the dog. Speak to the vet about pain medication, plenty of option before self medicating with MXE

 

[KHole]

Tramadol would be better for the dog. Speak to the vet about pain medication, plenty of option before self medicating with MXE

inboxed you something important could you have a look please thanks

 

[serotonin2A]

MXE isn't an analgesic -- to give him pain-relief, he would have to be on MXE around the clock, and he would be non-functional due to ataxia. He may also stop eating.

One difficulty that you didn't seem to think about os how would you titrate the dose? If you give him escalating doses until he shows obvious signs like sluggishness or ataxia then he will be overmedicated, and he will have no quality of life because you would have to give him several doses of MXE per day to keep him pain free. Alternatively, if you went for a lower dose that had no obvious behavioural effects, then there would be no way to know if the drug was helping him.

MXE is a recreational drug, not a veterinary medicine. It is one thing to buy MXE, which has unknown purity and safety, and decide to take it yourself. Giving a hallucinogen to your dog is potentially a very cruel thing to do. If your dog is in pain then the proper thing to do is to take him to a vet.

 

[thizzkid]

MXE isn't an analgesic -- to give him pain-relief, he would have to be on MXE around the clock, and he would be non-functional due to ataxia. He may also stop eating.

One difficulty that you didn't seem to think about os how would you titrate the dose? If you give him escalating doses until he shows obvious signs like sluggishness or ataxia then he will be overmedicated, and he will have no quality of life because you would have to give him several doses of MXE per day to keep him pain free. Alternatively, if you went for a lower dose that had no obvious behavioral effects, then there would be no way to know if the drug was helping him.

MXE is a recreational drug, not a veterinary medicine. It is one thing to buy MXE, which has unknown purity and safety, and decide to take it yourself. Giving a hallucinogen to your dog is potentially a very cruel thing to do. If your dog is in pain then the proper thing to do is to take him to a vet.

Thank you for your post I align most closely with you I think. I don't want to give him anything whatsoever, honestly I personally think he should be put down. This just isn't my dog and when I thought of treatments to try and help in the meantime MXE was the first thing to come to mind although someone said tramadol? Im going to look at that too. It's tough though especially because it isn't MY dog per-say so it's not my call. My mom is just overly-optimistic to the point that she is keeping him alive past the point where his life is still good.

For example this morning I woke up to find him on the ground in the hall with his leg bent weird underneath him. IDK how long he had been there but he couldn't get back up by himself .

once again 99.999999999999% chance that no medication at all that is mentioned is making into my dog this is just a question I thought I'd raise.

Someone mentioned cannabis too which I thought about but a while back I made edibles right. And my brother left half of one of them on the coffee table and it ended up getting eaten by the dog. Now he usually seems to enjoy marijuana when it blown through his nose (I actually dont even know if this is effective in getting him high, and I dont wan't to get him high now but he seemed to enjoy it back when I was more experimental and didn't have the full conception of what I was doing to him.) However when he ate the half of the edible he was clearly frightened by the effects and didnt know what was going on, pee'd himself and couldnt handle it. Me and my brother felt horrible when we realized what had happened so thats why I shun away from oral cannabis applied in this manner, plus that raises the same problem of trying to titrate up to a proper dose. With a drug and RoA that takes to long to take effect and is also in an animal and would be really hard to notice if itd working or not.

Thank you guys though all these posts are great feeds for my curiosity and Khole im checking Pm's right now.

 

[Bagseed]

For example this morning I woke up to find him on the ground in the hall with his leg bent weird underneath him. IDK how long he had been there but he couldn't get back up by himself .

really, I think this should be enough reason to put him down. it's unlikely that he would get a medical treatment in the same way a human would get, so waiting longer will mean he'll suffer longer.

 

[sekio]

I think I'm gonna close this.

Please talk with your veterinarian, and not a drug harm reduction forum for humans.