Opioids Methadone/Suboxone Wait Time.

[xenotype]

Allllright, So. I've searched this forum up and down and the webz as well and I cannot seem to find a clear cut answer for this question. How long do I need to wait before taking my first dose of sub.

Basic Personal Info: I started using Lortabs at age 15, It was an off and on thing and I had no problem quitting them after taking them for about half a year up to 100mg a day. I guess maybe it was because I was so young and didn't know what it really felt like to be dope sick. So maybe it's a little easier on the psyche when you don't have that pre-determined notion of how you are going to feel if you don't dose. At any rate around 17 I started getting roxy 30's for free was on those for that whole year - Check myself into rehab detoxed off the 30's and switched to Subs - I was on them for 2 years and actually felt like my old self again - But at 19 my state medicaid ran out and could no longer afford the suboxone - made the extremely wise decision to start MMT thinking it would be cheaper. It wasn't - factor in gas and it was the same price - stayed on it for 6 years topped out at 105mg and stayed there for 3 years - I'm now doing an involuntary 60 day detox for refusing to bring my Benzo and Addy scripts in for a "weekly" count. Got dropped 5mg every three days. Currently on 20m Alas, we arrive at the $64k question.

Factoring in my metabolism and the length I was on MMT, How long should I wait if I jump off from 20mg to avoid PW's ????????

I've heard 72~24 hours considering the half life of Methadone. But if I go by the COWS scale and I'm having explosive diarrhea, chills, and RLS. Would that be considered "ready" to take my first sub dose? I mean it would take a demi-god to sit there dope sick for three days knowing you have something that may take the pain away. I'm just ready to be out of this pit, I have a son on the way and I've got to start working again and I can't do that until I'm stable and I don't have much time.

Any inputs are welcome, Thanks. 8(

 

[Jabberwocky]

What you heard is correct. I'd recommend waiting more like 72 hours given your history. You can use a short acting less potent opioid like codeine or tramadol if the withdrawal during those three days in uncomfortable (you can go from taking codeine on day three to buprenorphine day 4 without issue).

 

[xenotype]

Yeah I have access or will have access to 50mg Tramadol - I took them when I was getting lowered because I started feeling pretty bad when I hit 45mg. I was eating them like candy and they were doing nothing. But maybe when I'm in full-state W/D's they will do something for me.

 

[opiatekrzy]

I have shared my experience and regards to transitioning from Methadone maintenance to Suboxone therapy a few times on these forums and I will say it was the most horrible experience of my life. I was on 150 mg of methadone maintenance and decided to switch over to Suboxone therapy, I was instructed to taper down 10mg of methadone every 3 days until I hit 20 mg. At this point my Suboxone doctor instructed me to stay opiate and methadone free for 48 hours after my last 20 mg dose. I had followed these instructions and had went to my suboxin appointment to convert over, my doctor had warned me for some people 48 hours just is not enough time at all so be careful and cautious. He started by making me take 24 mg of Suboxone sublingually as he stated he wanted me to reach the ceiling of fact or blockade dose. About an hour later I went to the most horrific precipitated withdrawal of my life, yes the physical aspect of it was horrendous but in my opinion the mental and emotional torture of it was the worst of it. As I had went into precipitated withdrawal my doctor had a private room in his office with the bed where he could monitor my blood pressure and I had laid there flapping like a fish for about 5 hours pissing out shit literally and throwing up constantly my legs were so uncomfortable with restless leg syndrome it was Unreal, I never thought this feeling would end. My whole life had flashed behind my eyes, all the screwed up and bad things I did to myself and to my family and loved ones all came hitting me like a brick and I was crying and crying and crying, I compare this similar to a mild Acid Trip gone bad literally. After about 5 hours my doctor released me as my vitals were stable and I was still flopping like a fish, even after 3 weeks later I still did not feel withdrawal free at all even taking three Suboxone today, I felt like I was in a mild methadone withdrawal constantly. The ironic part about it is one day I decided to just take a dose of methadone and surprisingly and luckily after that all my acute withdrawal symptoms head went away or if you want to call them placebo. This transition was not easy at all and it was the worst experience of my whole life. I highly recommend waiting at least seventy-two to ninety-six hours of being methadone free before taking Suboxone even if you are down to 20 mg of methadone

 

[Jabberwocky]

^that sounds pretty rough.

OP - tramadol will be much more useful once you've jumped off methadone. There is actually a detox protocol that uses tramadol. It's pretty new, but from what I understand effective, particularly in situations like this.

 

[xenotype]

Fuck that sounds god awful - Hopefully to god since I wasn't at 150 and my taper was a little more rapid I won't have to share that experience - Which is my biggest fear. I've also been wondering if PW can be used as a form of rapid detox since it rapidly forces all the opiates/opioids off their receptor sites. I think your main issue was your doctor dosing you with 24mg to start - That is the threshold dose for the ceiling affect. My doctor started me at 2mg and I felt amazing - And I only waited a night and half a day - but god it was the worst experience of my life - constant diarrhea, I was laying on the concrete laminate floor with a thin blanket tossing around and screaming and walking up to the nurses desk begging them with my life to let me go home. So I've felt that pain. And I do not want to ever go through it again. But it looks like theres only one exit.

 

[xenotype]

Edit - slower taper.

 

[Jabberwocky]

And the right regimen of comfort meds

 

[xenotype]

Yeah I have a cache of Gaba,Footballs and Trazadone which has been a godsend helping me stay asleep throughout the night.

Also been experimenting with Lope, I've found small relief from 20mg - I'd rather not eat 50 and not be able to shit for the rest of my days on earth.

 

[Pixies]

Yeah man, I just did the same thing, except I waited until only 24 hours after last dose of Methadone, maybe a little more, started only feeling some mild anxiety/bored feelings and took half a sub 8/2, didn't feel great, took another half, felt worse I'd say precipitated withdrawals for sure, but not as bad as everyone else said they would be. Waited like two more hours, maybe three before I took another half, and that cleared up the percips, but not 100%, and I definitely didn't feel any sort of "pleasure" from the Bupe. I'd say 48-72 at the minimum, and when you feel the WD's 100%, you'll know it's time. I think most people just can't get passed that "bored/mild anxiety" phase. GL

 

[Jabberwocky]

I think most people just can't get passed that "bored/mild anxiety" phase. GL

Exactly. That is why switching to a low potency short acting opioid for a couple days while the methadone works itself out of your system is a good idea.

 

[xenotype]

Same here - It's the W/D limbo that's the worst - the days are so damn long and the nights even longer.

I have a few friends that use bupe as their opioid DOC. They take small little pieces of the film. I guess the blocker has less effect the lower dose you take.

Also how long were you on MD??

 

[losangeles1993]

Heres a suggestion..why not do some H for a week and forget the methadone..im sure the Methadone will be out by then and you can take Subs the next day after you stopped H

 

[opiatekrzy]

Forcing yourself Into precipitated withdrawal will not work at all as a form of Rapid detox. You will still suffer classic withdrawal symptoms for days are up the weeks after depending on what opiate is used

 

[Jessssssssee]

I've had to come off 25 + year daily methadone for 3 months but I stayed clean

 

[Jabberwocky]

Also how long were you on MD??

Me? I was on methadone for 2.5 years.

 

[xenotype]

Forcing yourself Into precipitated withdrawal will not work at all as a form of Rapid detox. You will still suffer classic withdrawal symptoms for days are up the weeks after depending on what opiate is used

I thought PW's only lasted about an hour?

 

[xenotype]

Yeah man, I just did the same thing, except I waited until only 24 hours after last dose of Methadone, maybe a little more, started only feeling some mild anxiety/bored feelings and took half a sub 8/2, didn't feel great, took another half, felt worse I'd say precipitated withdrawals for sure, but not as bad as everyone else said they would be. Waited like two more hours, maybe three before I took another half, and that cleared up the percips, but not 100%, and I definitely didn't feel any sort of "pleasure" from the Bupe. I'd say 48-72 at the minimum, and when you feel the WD's 100%, you'll know it's time. I think most people just can't get passed that "bored/mild anxiety" phase. GL

How long were you on MD?

 

[opiatekrzy]

I thought PW's only lasted about an hour?

Precipitated withdrawal can last some hours, however, if you are heavily dependent on a certain opiate , your still going to feel withdrawal after the precipitated withdrawal phase, it's like taking steps down ward

 

[xenotype]

Precipitated withdrawal can last some hours, however, if you are heavily dependent on a certain opiate , your still going to feel withdrawal after the precipitated withdrawal phase, it's like taking steps down ward

I think I'm just going to base this on my previous suboxone induction - I'm going to wait until I'm in that full blown scratching the ceiling WDs before I take my first dose - I have an 8/2 strip and I've been advised by numerous friends to cut it into tiny pieces because the less you take the less nalaxone you get. they use bupes as his DOC and a film last them a week.