Opioids Methadone Mega Thread and FAQ v 2.0

[Mr.Scagnattie]

No I don't plan on ever taking methadone. I go cold Turkey all the way. But now that I know that its an opiate and not Meth I would be more inclined to take it if needed but I don't see me trying it, ever.

If we're talking maintenance drugs or just chemicals with longer half-lifes conducive to detoxing, than I would vote for buprenorphine over methadone any day of the week.

 

[monica2586]

How r the two different? Both opiate?

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Bupe isn't technically an opiate.. it's a semi-synthetic opioid. However, unlike methadone.. it is only a partial-agonist, which means it still fills some of the opiate receptors to keep away withdrawal, but doesn't get you high like heroin or oxy, etc.

One of the most common brand names for it is Suboxone. Have you heard of it?

Buprenorphine


It's much easier to come off of than methadone.. and the other added benefit is that you don't have to go to a clinic to get it. You can get a months supply prescribed to you by a doctor and you take it yourself at home.

 

[monica2586]

I've read some stuff about suboxone when I googled drugs to help with withdrawals. I would prob try the suboxone before methadone considering I have a pretty serious opiate addiction and I hate withdrawals. For me when I quit a drug I don't want to "get high" while trying to quit, but I find that klonopin does help. (Spelling?)

 

[adder]

For me when I quit a drug I don't want to "get high" while trying to quit, but I find that klonopin does help. (Spelling?)

Clonazepam is used during detox but I wouldn't overuse it. Getting off benzodiazepines is much worse than getting off opioids. I feel stable on Suboxone now, I stopped feeling an urge to inject i.v. to get rush long time ago, now the only chemical problem in my life is clonazepam.

Buprenorphine being a partial MOP receptors agonist facilitates regeneration in contrast to methadone which is a full mu agonist. Kappa antagonism is probably the main action of buprenorphine causing antidepressant effects (I think people feeling additional good effects from naltrexone treatment get this from kappa antagonism too).

I have quit methadone and it's not a walk in the park for sure despite tapering down maximally. I jumped off it at 4mg and I still had a terrible withdrawal, way worse than after stopping morphine or heroin abruptly. At times I thought I had gone mad. Now I'm on Suboxone, partially because of refractory depression I've been experiencing since I was 14 and it worsened after methadone cessation. I also needed maintenance because of PAWS for which I started using codeine just to feel "normal". It was so bad I stopped caring about getting pharm grade codeine phosphate and injecting it from filtered pills i.m.

Anyway, having been taking methadone for like 3 years, Suboxone is a miracle medicine for me now. Moreover, I wouldn't switch to Subutex if it was available in my country as one main difference I noticed between Suboxone and pure buprenorphine I used to take for a short period of time before getting on methadone for good is that with Suboxone constipation isn't that bad because there's a strange loosening effect 15-20 min after taking the pill(s). From what I know buprenorphine has a weaker effect in the gut, maybe it's a short living naloxone what causes this effect as it quickly disappears.

On methadone I became totally bored of life, it slowed me down, did nothing about my depression, actually it made it worse, and, maybe because of that depressing action, I sometimes thought about shooting up. With Suboxone I don't want to take morphine or whatever for real and not just because I would have to stop Suboxone, I just don't feel the need to dissociate into the opioid neverland.

 

[monica2586]

I haven't had a problem quitting benzos but I've never taken them regularly enough to wd. Good luck to u, sounds like you've had a hard time. I've never iv'd. Anything, I prefer to snort mine. For the last few years pain meds have been my drug of choice because I can function normally on them. I think that's y I have such a hard time stopping. I can only seem to stay clean for a week at the most.

 

[SubDude]

I was on MMT for more years than I want to think about and for me I did get an "upper" kind of boost for a few hrs which helped me take care of business. I always dosed in mornings and had no energy and felt like crap before taking. So that could be why it felt a bit like speed/amphetamine for awhile. Anyway it is no where near the same as methamphetamine and I never had a problem sleeping on Done. In fact I often took a nap in afternoons.

 

[stivsmegg]

yeah i am pretty worn out and tired when i dose in the morning but as soon as it kicks in i feel an energy boost and can go about my day with work an all. same with the heroin, i couldnt get out of bed w/o a shot and when i did it was very stimulating not a downer at all but such is the way of total dependance on an opioid/opiate, this feeling is very common. too much methadone however especially with benzos can put you in a walking coma all the time, i see it every time i go to the clinic(which is not very often), people totally gowed from their dose and sometimes a benzo...a lot of times really. that used to be me too, living dead really.

 

[SubDude]

yep... Methadone + Benzos = Walking Dead

 

[THE_REAL_OBLIVION]

What do you mean is it the same as meth? As in methamphetamine? If that's what you mean.... than no, hah. It's not even in the same ballpark.

The fuck is that. Methadone is a strong long acting opiate. Meth just means methyl alcohol. Which is very often used to modify compounds. Not sure that explanation works for the generic name of Metadol, pain pills (methadone 1,5,10,25mg).

Also i wouldnt use amphetamines during withdrawal ever. Well certainly not the first 5 days, after that it helps to kick one's ass into living again. But where I was in my head when I went to the alcoholism and other dependencies clinics is that I felt too weak psychologically to take another horrible cold turkey withdrawal at the time. A lot because of dexedrine abuse..

yep... Methadone + Benzos = Walking Dead

I wonder how come I am alive then buddy, people like this perpetuate the societal myth of that stupid shit. And doctors try to remove your benzos even when a person like me who was on benzos long before he ever put a needle in his hand. (I was on rivotril(klonopin) since 2007 and valium since 2010 and they were like you need to remove your benzos, without taking into account my huge tolerance to them and 20mg a day is the absolute minimum i need to be on, from a taper i did with my doc to get me out of 3mg of clonazepam a day. So anyway thats a reduction in 66% of benzo consumption.

So because of this myth I almost killed myself from benzo withdrawal which is several times worse and dangerous than opiate withdrawal. Taking methadone or bupe is because you were a hardened opi user using often ungodly dosages of dilaudid, heroin, oxymorphone, morphine, and even demerol, well all of the good opis to shoot, and just couldnt face psychologically to face another week of extreme torture. If only I could have then..I sure would have. I had done it before. I was able to be opiate free but i am unable to be benzo free.

And surprise surprise when my pdoc called the methadone doc an "irresponsible danger to society" by tapering me off valium in barbaric too short way, which anyway doesnt change anything, my neurotic brain needs benzos not to think too deep about things constantly and get lost in a maze of thoughts and getting panic attacks over fear of death constantly. I am a real case of needing benzos all the time cos my hyperactive brain could basically scare me to death. People having heart attacks or strokes because of a panic attack is not unheard of.

Im now on 20mg diazepam and 55mg methadone with no intention to increase my dosage of methadone ? Why ? Probably cos I have valium.

 

[smokemctoke420]

When I take opiates I'm more active, I can't sit still and have to be cleaning. I know they are not a "stimulant" but they stimulate me

i agree. when you said something about them being stimulants thats the first thing i could think of. opiates make me wanna clean and do work. like yesterday i took oxy and kept asking my sister if she needed help in the kitchen, and eventually i went out with my brother in law and helped pick up 400 goose decoys in the 30 degree cold

Yep, and I stay away from those. I prefer to watch a movie and wake up to the credits when I use opiates

oxy is stimulating but i can still nod into a nap in no time and got no trouble falling asleep but i dont dose over 20 (30 absolute max but is very rare). i usually dont nod until i dose 2 or 3 times tho and i dose about every 3-4 hours

 

[stivsmegg]

The fuck is that. Methadone is a strong long acting opiate. Meth just means methyl alcohol. Which is very often used to modify compounds. Not sure that explanation works for the generic name of Metadol, pain pills (methadone 1,5,10,25mg).

Also i wouldnt use amphetamines during withdrawal ever. Well certainly not the first 5 days, after that it helps to kick one's ass into living again. But where I was in my head when I went to the alcoholism and other dependencies clinics is that I felt too weak psychologically to take another horrible cold turkey withdrawal at the time. A lot because of dexedrine abuse..



I wonder how come I am alive then buddy, people like this perpetuate the societal myth of that stupid shit. And doctors try to remove your benzos even when a person like me who was on benzos long before he ever put a needle in his hand. (I was on rivotril(klonopin) since 2007 and valium since 2010 and they were like you need to remove your benzos, without taking into account my huge tolerance to them and 20mg a day is the absolute minimum i need to be on, from a taper i did with my doc to get me out of 3mg of clonazepam a day. So anyway thats a reduction in 66% of benzo consumption.

So because of this myth I almost killed myself from benzo withdrawal which is several times worse and dangerous than opiate withdrawal. Taking methadone or bupe is because you were a hardened opi user using often ungodly dosages of dilaudid, heroin, oxymorphone, morphine, and even demerol, well all of the good opis to shoot, and just couldnt face psychologically to face another week of extreme torture. If only I could have then..I sure would have. I had done it before. I was able to be opiate free but i am unable to be benzo free.

And surprise surprise when my pdoc called the methadone doc an "irresponsible danger to society" by tapering me off valium in barbaric too short way, which anyway doesnt change anything, my neurotic brain needs benzos not to think too deep about things constantly and get lost in a maze of thoughts and getting panic attacks over fear of death constantly. I am a real case of needing benzos all the time cos my hyperactive brain could basically scare me to death. People having heart attacks or strokes because of a panic attack is not unheard of.

Im now on 20mg diazepam and 55mg methadone with no intention to increase my dosage of methadone ? Why ? Probably cos I have valium.

yes not everyone cant handle their benzos on methadone but ime going to clinics for 14 yrs and seeing the change with the doctors and all, many people who were forced off the benzos that I KNEW were drooling zombies (like my best friend who is always out of it on his prescribed dose)on it and made huge spectacles of themselves at the clinic and elsewhere MAKING it now nearly impossible to be on both at the same time. i took a therapeutic dose of clonazepam for some time before it became a problem with doctors at the clinic at which time i was incarcerated anyway so i know what its like to be on both sides(as i now cant take a mg w/o blacking out) i dont mess with anything but pot now on my methadone but i am not against it, i just can no longer do it.

 

['medicine cabinet']

Yup the fed ex man drops off a pallet wrapped in black plastic of boxes of vistapharm bottles twice a week. (would be such an easy jack, not like hes armed or anything or going to risk his life over a delivery...that being if one was inclined to do something like that) plus the security guards there are tards and only one carries, plus hes so fat he would have to lift his fat gut to get at the crappy glock 17 in his IWBH...plus they only have one guard at a time and only for a few hours. Hahaha anywaays.....yea they drop off the bottles of liquid and 40mg wafers and directly take the foil capped bottles and put them in the auto dispenser hooked up to a comp program with all the patient info and stuff. When they give you a takehome they put it in a little bottle and heat seal foil on top so it cant be tampered with and a printer prints a sticker with all the info...name date dispensed, date to take, dose amount plus a big warning label. Ever since the clinic got bought out by this company its a joke....gas and go i call it. There are always ppl hanging around or across the street selling takehome bottles, benzos, and various cocktail pills ie clonidine promethazine, coke/crack. The cops are sometimes across the street in an unmaarked car but more often than not their fat asses are in chipotle housing down burritos. There is this nasty ass chick at the clinic who is always preggers, sold her baby for 3500 with no agency or paperwork and then tries to get the kid back...ive heard of some crazy schemes but that takes the cake for sure. Birdhouses are something you make and sell, not babies. Crack head should be sterilized.

 

[-Guido-]

When I take opiates I'm more active, I can't sit still and have to be cleaning. I know they are not a "stimulant" but they stimulate me

I was the same way on heroin. I would do a shot at work and manage to get 8 hours worth of tasks done in 4 hours. The only time I would nod was if I stopped moving.

 

[-Guido-]

The fuck is that. Methadone is a strong long acting opiate. Meth just means methyl alcohol. Which is very often used to modify compounds. Not sure that explanation works for the generic name of Metadol, pain pills (methadone 1,5,10,25mg).

Also i wouldnt use amphetamines during withdrawal ever. Well certainly not the first 5 days, after that it helps to kick one's ass into living again. But where I was in my head when I went to the alcoholism and other dependencies clinics is that I felt too weak psychologically to take another horrible cold turkey withdrawal at the time. A lot because of dexedrine abuse..



I wonder how come I am alive then buddy, people like this perpetuate the societal myth of that stupid shit. And doctors try to remove your benzos even when a person like me who was on benzos long before he ever put a needle in his hand. (I was on rivotril(klonopin) since 2007 and valium since 2010 and they were like you need to remove your benzos, without taking into account my huge tolerance to them and 20mg a day is the absolute minimum i need to be on, from a taper i did with my doc to get me out of 3mg of clonazepam a day. So anyway thats a reduction in 66% of benzo consumption.

So because of this myth I almost killed myself from benzo withdrawal which is several times worse and dangerous than opiate withdrawal. Taking methadone or bupe is because you were a hardened opi user using often ungodly dosages of dilaudid, heroin, oxymorphone, morphine, and even demerol, well all of the good opis to shoot, and just couldnt face psychologically to face another week of extreme torture. If only I could have then..I sure would have. I had done it before. I was able to be opiate free but i am unable to be benzo free.

And surprise surprise when my pdoc called the methadone doc an "irresponsible danger to society" by tapering me off valium in barbaric too short way, which anyway doesnt change anything, my neurotic brain needs benzos not to think too deep about things constantly and get lost in a maze of thoughts and getting panic attacks over fear of death constantly. I am a real case of needing benzos all the time cos my hyperactive brain could basically scare me to death. People having heart attacks or strokes because of a panic attack is not unheard of.

Im now on 20mg diazepam and 55mg methadone with no intention to increase my dosage of methadone ? Why ? Probably cos I have valium.

It isn't a myth. Many people die combining Methadone with benzos. You got lucky due to a combination of tolerance and the fact you got tapered off although your doctor should of tapered you more slowly. I have seen to many people die from Methadone and benzos.

 

[SubDude]

It isn't a myth. Many people die combining Methadone with benzos. You got lucky due to a combination of tolerance and the fact you got tapered off although your doctor should of tapered you more slowly. I have seen to many people die from Methadone and benzos.

You are absolutely right. I was on MMT and Valium for many yrs and personally know two friends who died from the combo. I have 3 boys in college and missed out on so much of their early lives because I took care of myself first... and was basically a walking dead especially in the evening. Anyone who believes this is a myth should go to a university hospital emergency room and speak with a nurse and/or ER Dr.

 

[ganeal]

I have a question.. I keep seeing ppl here post that they are on mmt and doses of like 29 mg's or 67 mg's and I don't understand. I am on mmt and my clinic gets the methadone from a pharmacy but it is already in the little bottles..the nurses just go and fetch the dose you are on and open the bottle and hand it to me..And you can only be on doses of 5,10,15,20 and so on.. I take 100mg's a day. I have to start tapering because I can't offord the 400 bucks a month. I am scared to death when I get down to 5 mg because that is the lowest my clinic offers. And BTW My 100 mgs methadone only comes 1/4th the way up the bottle..5 mg's would not even be but like a drop or 2...how the hell do you take that and it hold you for 24 hours?? I would guess they mix it with water? I just wish they would give you the 5 mg pill when you get down that low because then you could split it in half and go down to 2.5 mg/day before jumping off...I hear it is stupid to jump off at 5 because the withdrawels are still bad..but all the nurses tell me I will be fine!

 

[ganeal]

Also, on the subject of constipation-I agree, methadone and buprenorphine are by far the worst offenders. I never even really had a problem with this side effect when I was not on methadone or Bupe and just using heroin. I believe I read somewhere that methadone and loperamide had similar 'efficacy' as anti-diarrheal 's. IME, as long as I make sure to stay hydrated and eat a good ammount of fiber-I can go at least once every other day. However I have a bad habit of forgetting to drink as well as eat in general, and within the last few weeks, the constipation has been horrific. I mean, Jesus, yesterday morning I spent the first three hours of my morning trying to unclog our toilet after unloading 6-days worth of compacted fecal matter..It was hell! I guess I should be greatful though that I've never had to actually dig my shit out with my hands, because I know a lot of people need to do that.

OMG...I totally agree with this..The first 3 weeks I was on MMT I seriously thought I was going to have to stop just because of the ungodly constipation...Luckily I found Miralax helps so much.. but be careful if you take too much you will shit yourself silly.. I end up taking it about everyotherday and I am fine..I have a bad habit of on Friday when I get my 3 takehomes to swallow all 3 on Friday which total 300mg's then on Monday night at the 72 hour mark the diareahea comes on full effect and I end up counting down the hours until 6am when I can dose again. It's not worth it,but I don't know why I continue to do it. I am about to go up to getting 4 takehomes a week and there is no way I am going to be able to wait 4 days to dose so I am going to give them to my roommate to give me every morning..addiction sucks!!

 

['medicine cabinet']

^where do you live? Is it in the us? Im on my phone so if its listed i cant see it, but yea when they dispense it there is a water tank on the counter and they put a shot of water into the methadone. For one it makes it thinner so it doesnt stick to the sides. My clinic has an automated pumping system that is accuratly calibrated to 1mg so it makes tapering easier. When i start i want to go down a mg per week till im done...then i dont know....im worried about the paws. I was thinking of having a little tramadol and clonidine taper after. Any ideas?

 

[ganeal]

^I live in Atlanta USA..I just looked at one of my empty take home bottles and it says it comes prepackaged from vistapharm. It says 100 mg methadone HCL oral solution. Anyways I just can't imagine tapering down from 20 to 15 to 10 to 5..that would be a bitch! I guess starting from 100 to 95 would not be that bad,but once you get down to 20 I would rather go down 1 mg at a time.

As far as clonidine I have been hearing so much about that! I hear it is a high blood pressure medication,and I already take Lisinipril for high blood pressure,so I asked my Family Dr..to switch me over to clonidine(so my taper would be easier off methadone) and the bitch said no..she knows I am and recovering addict but I thought Clonidine was non addictive..