Harm Reduction Methadone as a last resort to get my life back.Did 20+ rehabs, subs maint, shots,ect

[MikeySpikes]

I am on mobile and using the Google speak to text so I apologize is there any misspellings or grammatical errors.
So like the title says I am 25 year old active heroin addict has been using IV heroin now for almost 10 years. I have tried Phoenix House 18 month program and literally Ben in and out of 20 or more 28 days or detox. I also have been on Suboxone maintenance now for about 2 years and the Suboxone does not work to stop long enough to stop wd nd stop cravings again because withdrawals even if I take 32 milligrams a day for the first three or 5 days I am still none stop throwing up puking and not getting out of bed at all and cannot eat.
So what I'm getting at is I want to try the state or County run methadone maintenance program. My life and my girlfriend's life now because of me is in shambles. Have or are any of you guys currently on the program in New York or even at all in America deck wood tell me what to expect or how hard it is to get on the program. I know that all the quote horror stories unquote that people talk about that I will gain weight lose my teeth xcetera in the sick thing is I am willing to do that if it means to get my life back and I don't have to put another word for disgusting Suboxone pills on the move my tongue ever again and at some point in a few years I will wean myself off thank you in advance for all your help.

 

[Znegative]

I used to live in the NYC area (brooklyn), the best methadone clinic is down by columbus square in Manhattan, it's part of st.vincents hospital, the staff there are super nice, they also do buprenorphine. You definitely have every right to try methadone man, believe me I've been there and done that too, shot dope for ten years and honestly I don't find there to be that much of a difference between subs and methadone in terms of maintenance, if you think methadone is going to work because its a full agonist and will get you high every day you're wrong, it will make you fall asleep every time you sit down (if your on the right dose lol), but after the first week or so, just like subs the magic goes away, some people will say that methadone worked for them, and I guess different strokes for different folks, in my opinion maintenance is always the same be it buprenorphine or methadone, shit even when I'm on heroin the cravings don't go away.

Here are the issues in my opinion which I know you didn't ask for:

having to go to a clinic. At first this doesn't seem like much of a big deal but over time it becomes taxing and depressing, you start to feel bad about yourself. Not only that, but I've found out that methadone clinics are the best place to buy drugs when all else fails, actually that's how I've always gotten my dope connects, xanax connects, etc... You can try to avoid it but it's always in your face, you're surrounded by people nodding out, hustling you, and blocking the doorways with their walkers and wheelchairs (no offense). The St.Vincents Clinic at Columbus Circle is nice because it's pretty in and out so you can avoid all that, but you have to actively avoid it, like run in and run out. Virtually every other methadone clinic in NYC is a cesspool of depravity, which is all right, met a lot of friends in places like that but didn't ever stay clean for very long.

Another thing is, methadone can be even more frustrating IME when it comes to cravings, especially if you're on a high dose, forget relapsing you'll just kill yourself trying to get high. Back when SWAN was open in the lower east side I would sit in that little bathroom shooting up hundreds of dollars worth of heroin and wasting every fucking dollar of it, Or I'd find myself loaded on xanax, blacking out and waking up with a catheter in my dick. All of my overdoses were while on methadone. If you're on a low dose I think it's better, but then it doesn't block the heroin.

The whole things ridiculous, I think they should have heroin maintenance in the US for long term IV drug users, over a third of my life has been spent on heroin basically, and if I could get it legally I'd be a better person for it. That being said, dream on.

 

[Drderms]

so sorry to hear about your situation , heroin addiction is the devil in disguise . but when people tell there horror storys about methadone , what they mean to say is thats how it affected them , my dad has been on methadone for more then 20 years and his teeth are pearl white , you have to brush your teeth 3 times a day , dry mouth causes lots of germs and bacteria build up so youll need to stay hydrayted .
i dont know about new york, but in australia , all you have to do is go into a clinic provide a urine sample ,and show your track marks . and bam your on the program i have been on the program for 6 months now i started at 25mg and im now on 110mg , it keeps me from using other opiates , doesnt get you high tho . but what you want is your life back and i can garuantee , you will have it back . if you put in %110 effort , at my clinic if you show up posituve for heroin after being on the program , you automatically get taken off . because there are people that would kill to be your position . hope this helps

 

[Znegative]

It's the same thing in NYC, they'll start you off on 30mg, if you make a fuss you might be able to get them to bump it up to 40 or 45mg, but usually no higher then they'll raise you up ten milligrams every day if you want until about 70 or 80mg.

and yes its not just the methadone that destroys your teeth and bones its the lifestyle, all hard drugs are bad on your teeth as they all dehydrate the fuck out of you. I have seen some people turn their lives around I am just letting the OP know my experience because we come from a similar demographic, 10 years addiction to IV heroin, NYC, 20's, etc..

 

[MikeySpikes]

Thank you guys so much really you guys gave me the little bit of hope I need to make the phone call when my girlfriend comes home for lunch today. Only have this one concern that on the website it says you have to have had more than 2 or more failed treatments or something like that. I have plenty of those failed experiencebut are they going to ask me to get paperwork from the facilities I did attend? Or is it like there run-of-the-mill dreaming questions that they ask questions that every rehab asks.
Also is it like the Suboxone where you have to show up sick the first day

Also what i s the cost approximately

 

[Znegative]

empty out your PM box bro I'm trying to PM you, if you don't have time I'll just post it here, if you don't have medicaid they should have a sliding scale. Probably no more than $15 a day but could probably get it dropped to $8, also if you don't have medicaid, sign up for it they do back payments.

 

[tacodude]

No you can go on done even after shooting up right before although they probably won't if your nodding.... It's not the same as bupe with precipitated withdrawal worries. I don't recommend shooting up before you go and doing your best to make it as long as possible since last shot before going in to avoid OD risk.

 

[Znegative]

^actually Tacodude, in some instances you won't get dosed the same day, so it's something the OP should call the clinic to find out. When I went in I was really sick only to find out I had to wait till the next day.

 

[tacodude]

My bad Zneg is right it's location based as it took a two hour intake process them dose

 

[666ras]

First, I wonder if the suboxone dose is too high? I took it a couple times recreationally when I didn't have a habit to speak of, and found myself vomitting pretty much non-stop. But when i went on it when I actually needed it, I experienced none of that. So maybe just try lowering your dose, take one strip rather than two - maybe that's all your need. 32mg of suboxone, I believe, is the maximum dose they'll prescribe, so it's possible that your doctor overestimated your tolerance.

That said, if that's not it, investigate methadone, and don't be negatively biased towards it.

I think that there is far too much negativity towards methadone. It works wonders. It's the exact substance that your body needs (as in, the body of an addict), without any of the risks and costs associated with black markets (pricing, legality, varying purity). Methadone isn't a first line "cure" anymore, with suboxone having taken its place, but with your history, and your experience with suboxone already, it might be the thing to look at.

You'll have to fall into the routine though - at the beginning, especially, you'll be expected to show up every day and drink your dose on premises. You might even have to do counseling (some spots mandate that, others just give you your drink and let you leave). So make sure you have transportation. After a varying amount of time, you'll be able to start getting take homes so you don't need to show up every day. That's adds some freedom back to your life, but also means that you lose a little of your routine. Hopefully you'll have a job for routine though.

The worst thing I've seen happen, is when peoples lives are going good on methadone, and either themselves or their support network start urging them to stop. Saying things like "you're still addicted to a drug, blah blah blah". And then people quit too soon. And then go back out. So, when those voices start up, either inside or out, ask yourself "would i rather have to take a drug everyday that is legally dispensed to me, or would I rather risk ending up in jail, OD'ed somewhere, shot, mugged" or any of the other things that could happen out there. It's not like you're unique - people take pills for depression, anxiety, all sorts of things, every day, and there is always a small group that will chastise them for that, as if it's a matter of weakness. It's not. If it works for you, no reason to mess things up.

I've read that 5 years is a good amount of time to be on methadone for. It gives you 5 years to build a new life, new habits, new friends, new ways of handling stress, depression, or whatever else life throws at you. And again, when those voices are telling you that you haven't really improved, that you're still taking a drug every day, remember where you're at now, and how many times you've resolutely decided to quit yet went right back to it. Is drinking a little drink every morning that bad in comparison? Knowing that you'll not risk death or getting locked up, knowing that you'll be employable, and will be able to show up when called, rather than meaning to get somewhere but, because your hookup didn't show up, having to blow it off, whether that's your job, your girlfriend, your family or whatever else?

In closing, and forgive me, I'm a long term lurker but newly registered here, so maybe you'll want to take anything i say with a grain of salt, but I'd say that that's the way to go. You're not quitting the fight by going the methadone route, you're doing the best thing possible - opting for self preservation.

Strange coming off for it so strongly, but I know for myself ("clean" a few months now, though still drinking), but after 20 years of this shit, if I slip up again, that's where I'll be, back at the clinic, and refusing to listen to anyone telling me I'm taking the easy way out by going the methadone route. I'd rather 100% having to drink my drink every day than nearly any of the other options, that so far I've lucked out of having to deal with.

Best of luck.

 

[666ras]

The whole things ridiculous, I think they should have heroin maintenance in the US for long term IV drug users, over a third of my life has been spent on heroin basically, and if I could get it legally I'd be a better person for it. That being said, dream on.

Some days, I actually research what the options are for immigrating to Portugal, because they have it right over there. Though I doubt they want drug addicts moving there en masse, thankfully, I've got professional skills that make me useful. Who knows... It's always a option.

 

[justkeepswim]

So i'm trying to post a new topic but this thread jumped out to me.
i'm also 25 and both my BF and i sat down and discussed wanting to get off heroin. we've been using opiates for the past 4 years and were off and on subs but they didn't work last time we tried to get off heroin to the point where we just said screw it and went back to dope. i have 2 methadone pills and i am down to 4 bags a day of dope. i want to kick it so bad. when should i take the methadone? i just started a new job and have to be there for training every day from 8am-3pm so i'm just nervous about going into WD while on the job if i just stop all together. i also have a sub which i was going to take after the 2 methadone pills are gone. basically i have no idea what i'm doing to stop using and need help!

 

[666ras]

Not knowing where you are, or rather, what your dopes like, I'm not sure. Where i used to be, a bag 1/6 gram, where I am now, its these teeny tiny stamps... So that's a bit of a difference. Plus not knowing how strong your methadone pills are is another question. I'm going to assume they're 10mg.

Either way, I'd say, make your stuff last. What I would do is time it. You want to reach the end of your drugs hopefully when you have at least a couple days off. So, start with a methadone tablet in the AM before work. You could even try a half, but i'm not thinking that 5 MG will be too helpful, so try the one. Go to work, do your thing, and when you get out, you're not going to be feeling great. So hold off on that second tablet for as long as possible. Hopefully til the morning. If you can do that you're golden, then you can get through your next work day.

Now, the thing with suboxone is you CAN'T TAKE IT UNTIL YOU'RE SICK. If you take it when you're feeling fine, you're going to precipitate withdrawal, which sucks much worse than going into withdrawal in the first place.

The last time I quit, I had 2 subs left. And i made those things last. Took maybe a third of one, then a sixth, and kept going down from there. I swear, my last 8mg strip lasted for over a week, with me taking increasingly smaller and smaller pieces off of it, til there was none left. But, by drawing it out for that long, I really have say that that was my least painful detox ever. I was a little shaking the next few days, but that was all. No one was looking at me calling out beads of sweat or anything.

But that said, I'd want to time it so that your last bit of suboxone is directly before your last shift for a day or two or three. If you can do that, you could have a chance, if you've got the willpower to not pick up the phone and get the instant "fix" for your discomforts.

I've detoxed too many times. Both at hospitals and at home. And I can say, that detoxing too fast has never worked for me. The longer you can draw it out, especially with suboxone which stays in your system for so long, the less it's going to suck at the end. It'll suck a bit during the entire period, but you'll hopefully be able to get through it and be able to get to work, as long as things aren't too stressful or physical.

That's all iv'e got though.

 

[d1ahp]

I'm a lot like what you describe. I've been to numerous rehabs and go back to it within days every time.

I'm not sure about methadone clinics in your area, but they're all pretty much the same in the US.

It's not a bad idea to get on Methadone Replacement Therapy if you want a new lease on life. If you want to keep on getting high, methadone might not be the best choice.

In order to get on the program, you need to call the clinic of your choice and find out what their intake days and requirements are.

In NC, all you need is a driver's license and an opiate positive drug test result. Clinics here will not accept you if you don't test positive for an opiate. Some clinics will refuse you service if you test positive for a benzo. I've had this happen to me a month or so ago when I got back on methadone maintenance program. Some clinics will even allow you to take benzos concurrent with your methadone as long as they can contact the prescribing doctor and correlate dosages.

The intake process will take a couple of hours. If everything goes well you'll dose the same day. Showing up early will speed your process up.

They will usually start you off at 30-40mg and allow you to go up by 5 until you get to 70-80mg. Once you're at 70-80mg you'll need to talk to your counselor to increase your dose. Some places will hold you at the same dose for another 24 hour period if you state that your last day's dose held you for more than 4 hours.

Your goal is to get to a dose that holds you for 24 hours. Getting high shouldn't be your goal here. If getting high is your goal, here's what's going to happen. You'll get to whopping 100-130mg and after taking that for 2-3 weeks you'll get your tolerance through the roof and the buzz will subside just like with any other opiate. There are people that take amounts twice that, it's not necessary for 99% of addicts. I've heard of some taking even more, that's just dumb.

The first time I got on MMT, I still wanted to get high and I ended up living a life even more terrible than the one before methadone. I'd dose, score benzos and then nod all day. Then I'd wake up and smoke crack all night till it's time to dose again. It took a big toll on my body, finances and relationships. This happens to a lot of people, sadly. That and people taking way more methadone than they need which causes them great struggle when it's time to taper gives methadone bad reputation.

The point of methadone is keeping you from criminal activity and learning to live a healthy lifestyle.

When you want to get off methadone, you'll want to taper into the single digits. I'd say go until you get to zero. Don't do it too fast. Whatever you do, don't jump off at your maintenance dose.

If you have clean UAs, you will get take-homes. Eventually enough to just come in once a week.

Overall, methadone is a bit cheaper than but not more convenient than suboxone.

If you keep testing positive for benzos, you will get kicked out. If you keep smoking weed you won't get your takehomes, I don't know about states where marijuana is legal.

Methadone can be a great thing for someone who wants to get clean but is incapable of doing it. If you're looking to keep getting high, you won't be saving any money in the long run with the MMT. A lot of people get bored with methadone and start abusing other drugs, like I did.

There are definitely some annoying things about the clinic, but if you want some normalcy to your life, MMT can be a very good thing.