Mescaline Boiling Point (San Pedro)

[t_wrex]

First post. I wasn't sure whether to post this here or in one of those "Big Dandy" threads, and I didn't see one for Mescaline or San Pedro. Have done about 10 San Pedro boils now, all in the same manner (blend,boil,strain,reduce). Every boil has "worked", but I am noticing a significant variability in trip strength; I have done 3ft and had an amazing time, and have later done 3ft and had only an "average" time. I am wondering if I am boiling it too hot.

I am finding conflicting numbers on the internet for the boiling point; some websites list 180C (356F), some list 312C (596F). I've been going by the 596F number, and checking the outside of the pot with a digital meat thermometer and keeping that number below 400, but would of course be too hot if the true number is 356F.

So which is it? Also, I am noticing an extraordinarily long time to come on, certainly relative to LSD & Psilocybin with which I have extensive experience. Sometimes as long as 2.5-3 hours. Thoughts? TIA, all information fictional.

 

[ProfessrHyperdimensional]

Perhaps. San Pedro is active raw so I am not sure boiling is necessary but I have a feeling shamans in Peru boil the shit out of it in a pot over a fire you might see an American trying to make camping in the wild or something.

 

[t_wrex]

Perhaps. San Pedro is active raw so I am not sure boiling is necessary but I have a feeling shamans in Peru boil the shit out of it in a pot over a fire you might see an American trying to make camping in the wild or something.

It's not "necessary", but I'm not sure I could stomach 3ft of raw Cactus. ?

The shaman thing is what made me think the BP was the higher number, since the ancients certainly didn't have an easy way to measure/control the temp....

 

[ProfessrHyperdimensional]

It's not "necessary", but I'm not sure I could stomach 3ft of raw Cactus. ?

The shaman thing is what made me think the BP was the higher number, since the ancients certainly didn't have an easy way to measure/control the temp....

No I really think they boil it good though over a handmade stone fire or something. Of course they don't check temp...

Have you read Erowid reports or a guide because I feel like people talk in detail about the best way...

 

[MescaliCAN]

I think the bigger issue is that cactus (and San Pedro especially) have a lot of variability in mescaline content - are all of your cuttings from the same cactus?

I’ve always made tea or my favorite resin by finely chopping the flesh and reducing via a very long and slow simmer rather than a shorter and higher temp boil. I never looked into the boiling point because I learned my method from a friend.

2.5 hours to get going is standard fare for cactus - you really can’t compare it to lsd or shrooms in terms of how long it takes to come up. When you get ahold of some choice cuttings and take enough to have visuals in the first hour you are in for one hell of a ride.

You might want to look into t. Bridgesii cuttings if you can find them. I find it much more consistent in terms of trip strength compared to San Pedro and the closest to Peyote that I’ve tried in its ability to consistently floor you.

 

[ProfessrHyperdimensional]

Anyways cheers to Grandfather Medicine. Huachuma is a plant teacher I plan on taking a lesson with in the near future myself.

 

[ProfessrHyperdimensional]

I think the bigger issue is that cactus (and San Pedro especially) have a lot of variability in mescaline content - are all of your cuttings from the same cactus?

I’ve always made tea or my favorite resin by finely chopping the flesh and reducing via a very long and slow simmer rather than a shorter and higher temp boil. I never looked into the boiling point because I learned my method from a friend.

2.5 hours to get going is standard fare for cactus - you really can’t compare it to lsd or shrooms in terms of how long it takes to come up. When you get ahold of some choice cuttings and take enough to have visuals in the first hour you are in for one hell of a ride.

You might want to look into t. Bridgesii cuttings if you can find them. I find it much more consistent in terms of trip strength compared to San Pedro and the closest to Peyote that I’ve tried in its ability to consistently floor you.

I sure will look into
I sure will check out Echinopsis lageniformis (syn. Trichocereus bridgesii), the Bolivian torch cactus

 

[t_wrex]

I think the bigger issue is that cactus (and San Pedro especially) have a lot of variability in mescaline content - are all of your cuttings from the same cactus?

No, they are not. They were supposedly all propagated from the same original plant, though.

You might want to look into t. Bridgesii cuttings if you can find them. I find it much more consistent in terms of trip strength compared to San Pedro and the closest to Peyote that I’ve tried in its ability to consistently floor you.

Interesting. Wikipedia lists the M content for Bridgesii at 0.56%, versus Pachanoi at 0.2-1.8%. I imagine a consistent .56 might be better than an inconsistent .2-1.8.

 

[MescaliCAN]

If you’re focused on extracting pure mescaline finding good San Pedro or Peruvian Torch are better options due to the variability you mention. All things being equal those two tend to have higher mescaline content. Doesn’t sound like you are but thought I should mention that.

T. bridgessi and peyote both have a much higher content of other alkaloids besides mescaline that contribute to the experience. The entourage effect of all of the alkaloids seems to make a huge difference in the experience. I prefer Peyote and T. Bridgesii to Pedro/Peruvian if I’m taking it as a tea or resin but for extraction purposes Pedro/Peruvian have a greater chance of a “jackpot” extraction if you’re looking for loads of just mescaline.

Peyote/Bridge to Pedro/Peruvian is like ayahuasca to pharmahuasca - you tend to need a lot more DMT for pharma then you do ayahuasca, but my experience is that ayahuasca tends to be much stronger. My opinion is that the greater amount of alkaloids in ayahuasca (especially Harmala content) are what contributes to this.

Mescaline is an amazing experience and my personal favorite of all those I’ve tried but you never really know what you’re getting into before the tea/resin goes down the hatch. If you’re looking for consistent strength you may want to try extracting the mescaline from the cactus and knowing how much you’re taking. I’ve tried mixing harmine & the with mescaline and that is a fantastic way to come as close to a consistent ego shattering mescaline experience as possible.

 

[cosmic charlie]

Big and Dandy Mescaline Thread

We actually do have a section in the psychedelic index relating to Mescaline and the various Cacti containing it. Personally I was always under the impression Mescaline was stable enough to boil without issue. But I personally like to take San Pedro powder inside gel caps. The stuff i have now is potent and i take it in three doses spread 30 mins apart.

But ive made tea and boiled it down to reason and it worked well also with the Cactus Chips. But when i use the gelcap method and stagger I don't get nauseous from it. There is so much information in that Big and Dandy and with all its subsections I'm sure you can learn quite a bit.

 

[t_wrex]

Yes, I'm aware of the other alkaloids (Hordenine, Tyramine, et al). Specifically, Hordenine acts as a mild stimulant and also an MAO-b inhibitor. Actually, as an experiment a few months back I ordered some pure Hordenine HCL and pure Phenethylamine HCL (from a bodybuilding website of all places lmao), as I had read that taken together they could form a weak amphetamine-like high. My trials were underwhelming; I would liken the experience to basically a 4-5 hour caffeine buzz.

I'm not extracting with the Cacti, and in fact prefer to have the other alkaloids along with the Mescaline. I would agree that Mescaline via Cactus is my favorite of the psychedelics I've tried. I'm not a religious or spiritual person whatsoever, being fairly firmly rooted in the worlds of science & logic, but the emotional resonance I feel on Mescaline is what I can only classify as being "spiritual". Deep impact there, that I don't necessarily experience with other psychedelics. MDMA comes close, though I unfortunately haven't had much of that one.

 

[t_wrex]

Big and Dandy Mescaline Thread

We actually do have a section in the psychedelic index relating to Mescaline and the various Cacti containing it. Personally I was always under the impression Mescaline was stable enough to boil without issue. But I personally like to take San Pedro powder inside gel caps. The stuff i have now is potent and i take it in three doses spread 30 mins apart.

But ive made tea and boiled it down to reason and it worked well also with the Cactus Chips. But when i use the gelcap method and stagger I don't get nauseous from it. There is so much information in that Big and Dandy and with all its subsections I'm sure you can learn quite a bit.

Ah, thank you for that. ? I fortunately have never had any nausea issues. The gel cap method does sound convenient, though.

 

[MescaliCAN]

Yes, I'm aware of the other alkaloids (Hordenine, Tyramine, et al). Specifically, Hordenine acts as a mild stimulant and also an MAO-b inhibitor. Actually, as an experiment a few months back I ordered some pure Hordenine HCL and pure Phenethylamine HCL (from a bodybuilding website of all places lmao), as I had read that taken together they could form a weak amphetamine-like high. My trials were underwhelming; I would liken the experience to basically a 4-5 hour caffeine buzz.

I'm not extracting with the Cacti, and in fact prefer to have the other alkaloids along with the Mescaline. I would agree that Mescaline via Cactus is my favorite of the psychedelics I've tried. I'm not a religious or spiritual person whatsoever, being fairly firmly rooted in the worlds of science & logic, but the emotional resonance I feel on Mescaline is what I can only classify as being "spiritual". Deep impact there, that I don't necessarily experience with other psychedelics. MDMA comes close, though I unfortunately haven't had much of that one.

I’m sure you are aware of all the other alkaloids but just wanted to note the differences between different types of cactus experiences. Mainly that I don’t think it’s just about the mescaline content, especially after having worked with pure mescaline. And yeah I tried the Hordenine/PEA experience and was also extremely unimpressed lol.

Same here - I’m as rational/analytical as anyone I know, but the first time I tried cactus I could only describe it as a spritual experience, which was pretty unfamiliar territory. For me LSD/shrooms tend to be more of an analytical experience where mescaline seems to have some sort of ancient soul attached to it - its such an unfamiliar feeling to me and I have a hard time putting words to exactly what it is that makes me feel that way.

I’ve been working with DMT for awhile now and I would consider it closer to mescaline than I do LSD/shrooms in the way it reliably creates a mystical/spiritual experience. Whatever the hell that means lol.

 

[t_wrex]

Same here - I’m as rational/analytical as anyone I know, but the first time I tried cactus I could only describe it as a spritual experience, which was pretty unfamiliar territory. For me LSD/shrooms tend to be more of an analytical experience where mescaline seems to have some sort of ancient soul attached to it - its such an unfamiliar feeling to me and I have a hard time putting words to exactly what it is that makes me feel that way.

Yes! I have this vivid feeling that I am partaking in a millenia-old ritual and experiencing what for many would be a divine energy. It's quite easy to see how ancient indigenous cultures held this chemical in high regard (and still do) in their religious ceremonies.

I have similar thoughts as yours about LSD/Psilocybin. They are powerful and enjoyable experiences (LSD moreso than Shrooms for me), but I would say they feel more "recreational". Mescaline has an emotional depth to its character that is unique. I like the lucidity that I retain during the experience, though if I am in search of a "trip balls" psychedelic high I feel LSD would be more suited. Oh, and I am astounded at the brilliancy of color; I recall my first Mescaline trip coming out of a dark room and looking at the sunlight hit a Birch tree in the yard and being amazed at how strong of a green it looked.

It has been about 6 years since I tried DMT, and only did so a handful of times. That feeling of being thrust out of a cannon during the comeup will forever stay in my memory, as will the extremely tessellated & fast-moving 3 dimensional visuals, but I don't think I was quite mature enough to really appreciate every aspect of the experience at the time. Perhaps it's worth a revisit, particularly in oral form as I only ever vaped it.

 

[MescaliCAN]

Yes that’s exactly it! I was the first of my crew to try it and I was trying to describe it afterwards and basically gave them a mash up of what we’ve discussed here. Knowing me for as long as they have they all looked at me like I was crazy but I couldn’t describe it any other way. It has this incredible way of making you feel like you’re doing exactly what you should be doing, where you’re supposed to be doing it, with whom you should be doing it, when you’re supposed to be doing it. Unless you’ve tried it you really can’t relate. Sort of like MDMA but not so forced. And a profound sense of being around a presence that pre-dates human beings. I honestly don’t know why more people who like psychedelics haven’t done it. I’ve yet to meet someone who’s done it that doesn’t absolutely love it.

Re: LSD/shrooms - pretty much my thoughts exactly. Mescaline seems to heal on an emotional and spiritual level. LSD/shrooms help me sort things out in a creative way that I find very helpful but as time goes on I use them less and less. A little too harsh at times although I’ve always enjoyed them every time I’ve taken them. Mescaline feels like a cleansing experience in that I don’t have a particular game plan or understanding of what I need to work on, I just don’t seem to care about trivial things anymore. I guess it kinda of rights the ship without leaving a clear explanation of how it did it. Words are inadequate when it comes to mescaline lol.

I’ve spent the better part of the last 6 months working extensively with DMT and although I vaped it initially I rarely do so anymore. The oral experience is by far my preferred method although I recently started taking Harmalas orally before vaping (sort of a modified changa) and that is essentially a 20-30 min oral experience and has a similar ability to slow down the madness and make it immersive. DMT has a more mystical quality to it in the sense that some of the visions are awe inspiring but I don’t understand why my subconscious and/or the universe is showing it to me even though I know there is some deeper meaning to it. Lots of symbolism and metaphor going on in the DMT world. Highly recommend changa and aya/pharmahuasca if you have access.

 

[Phobos]

First post. I wasn't sure whether to post this here or in one of those "Big Dandy" threads, and I didn't see one for Mescaline or San Pedro. Have done about 10 San Pedro boils now, all in the same manner (blend,boil,strain,reduce). Every boil has "worked", but I am noticing a significant variability in trip strength; I have done 3ft and had an amazing time, and have later done 3ft and had only an "average" time. I am wondering if I am boiling it too hot.

I am finding conflicting numbers on the internet for the boiling point; some websites list 180C (356F), some list 312C (596F). I've been going by the 596F number, and checking the outside of the pot with a digital meat thermometer and keeping that number below 400, but would of course be too hot if the true number is 356F.

So which is it? Also, I am noticing an extraordinarily long time to come on, certainly relative to LSD & Psilocybin with which I have extensive experience. Sometimes as long as 2.5-3 hours. Thoughts? TIA, all information fictional.

If you are boiling the cacti in water, they will be at a temperature of 100C or slightly less, as that will be the temperature of the water and of the inside of the pot as well.

 

[t_wrex]

If you are boiling the cacti in water, they will be at a temperature of 100C or slightly less, as that will be the temperature of the water and of the inside of the pot as well.

Are you sure about that? Just because I've read that the inside surface of a boiling pot could reach higher temps than 100C.

 

[Phobos]

Are you sure about that? Just because I've read that the inside surface of a boiling pot could reach higher temps than 100C.

Only the part that is directly above flame, and only in case it is set very high.
But that doesn't really matter as the water itself will not go past 100C, when it does so it becomes vapour, and the active compounds are in water, and if water is liquid it will be less than 100C.

 

[Phobos]

Ok maybe it would make sense to just make sure the solids do not come into direct contact of the pot, like by having them contained in some sort of cotton bag or metal mesh immersed in water.

 

[t_wrex]

Ok maybe it would make sense to just make sure the solids do not come into direct contact of the pot, like by having them contained in some sort of cotton bag or metal mesh immersed in water.

This is what I was curious about ? That the pulp solids, resting on the bottom of the pot, might heat up, potentially destroying the alkaloids.