Mercury toxicity - time to emergence of symptoms, from time of dental fillings?

[JohnBoy2000]

There's bound to be differing opinions on this as, one side is so vehement and adamant that there's not scientific backing as to any negative implications from mercury amalgam used in fillings.

There's there's n=1 studies that emerge from time to time, claiming vast amelioration of symptoms upon removal of mercury filings.

But my question is roughly - and may not be possible to answer but - it goes along the lines of, how long could it take for emergence of symptoms related to mercury toxicity, after the date of having them fitted in the dentists office?

Like - I think it was the 60 minutes show, claimed it could even take decades?

I have no idea as to whether there's any neuroscientific explanation for why this may or may not be the case.
Do ya'll know?

Supposedly blood and urinanalysis are basically inaccurate at detecting possible toxicity in this regard also.
Sometimes kidney damage may show up, but unreliable.

 

[Bravoncius Roxford]

There's bound to be differing opinions on this as, one side is so vehement and adamant that there's not scientific backing as to any negative implications from mercury amalgam used in fillings.

There's there's n=1 studies that emerge from time to time, claiming vast amelioration of symptoms upon removal of mercury filings.

But my question is roughly - and may not be possible to answer but - it goes along the lines of, how long could it take for emergence of symptoms related to mercury toxicity, after the date of having them fitted in the dentists office?

Like - I think it was the 60 minutes show, claimed it could even take decades?

I have no idea as to whether there's any neuroscientific explanation for why this may or may not be the case.
Do ya'll know?

Supposedly blood and urinanalysis are basically inaccurate at detecting possible toxicity in this regard also.
Sometimes kidney damage may show up, but unreliable.

Murcury is not very bioavailable in elemental form. The really toxic versions of Mercury are when Me is chelated to organic molecules, or when Mercury is modified to be more lipopholic, which allows it to more easily permeate cell membranes. The classic example of this would be dimethylmercury, which is an extremely potent neurotoxin. A single droplet of dimethylmercury on your skin will cause severe and permanent brain damage. It does this by causing a massive surge of free radicals in the brain, while inhibiting selenoenzymes, several of which are involved in antioxidant protection. The neurological symptoms of Mercury poisoning are mostly due to increased epinephrine and other catecholamine levels. Mercury is a highly potent catechol-o-methyltransferase inhibitor(IC50= 9 nmol), and the extreme agitation and excitement caused by Me poisoning is mostly due to massively increased adrenaline, noradrenaline and dopamine levels.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

Murcury is not very bioavailable in elemental form. The really toxic versions of Mercury are when Me is chelated to organic molecules, or when Mercury is modified to be more lipopholic, which allows it to more easily permeate cell membranes. The classic example of this would be dimethylmercury, which is an extremely potent neurotoxin. A single droplet of dimethylmercury on your skin will cause severe and permanent brain damage. It does this by causing a massive surge of free radicals in the brain, while inhibiting selenoenzymes, several of which are involved in antioxidant protection. The neurological symptoms of Mercury poisoning are mostly due to increased epinephrine and other catecholamine levels. Mercury is a highly potent catechol-o-methyltransferase inhibitor(IC50= 9 nmol), and the extreme agitation and excitement caused by Me poisoning is mostly due to massively increased adrenaline, noradrenaline and dopamine levels.

I'm curious as to how that would explain some individuals symptoms of chronic fatigue via mercury toxicity - that being the case?

That seems to be one of the more documented effects of it.

 

[sekio]

A study[16] conducted by measuring the intraoral vapour levels over a 24-h period in patients with at least nine amalgam restorations showed that the average daily dose of inhaled mercury vapour was 1.7 μg (range from 0.4 to 4.4 μg), which is approximately 1% of the threshold limit value of 300 to 500 μg/day established by WHO, based on a maximum allowable environmental level of 50 μg/day in the workplace.

also

Mercury does not collect irreversibly in human tissues. The average half life of mercury is 55 days for transport through the body to the point of excretion. Thus mercury that came into the body years ago may no longer be present in the body.[8]

Fillings do not contain or produce methylmercury. If you eat fish regularly you get more exposure to mercury that way than if you had a filling on literally every tooth.

Ref: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3388771/

 

[Bravoncius Roxford]

I'm curious as to how that would explain some individuals symptoms of chronic fatigue via mercury toxicity - that being the case?

That seems to be one of the more documented effects of it.

Prostration is an effect of ME poisoning indepent from it's ability to increase epinephrine and dopamine. Heavy metals put na enormous strain on the body's detox mechanisms, which is why people poisoned with Mercuty get so tired. You saw the same with workers at the Rocky Fklats nuclear bomb making facility, who were all more-or-less poisoned by Uranium and Plutonium. The fact is, the neurological symptoms of Me pisoning are very similar to that of rabies: extreme agitation and excitement. And those are the result of increased central and peripheral adrenaline and dopamine due to COMT inhibition.

 

[sekio]

Btw, a can of tuna can contain between 10 and 100 ug of mercury ... so a filling at 0.2 ug per day is probably not the source of any suspected heavy metal poisoning.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

In terms of heavy metal removal - heavy metals ingested orally are gonna pass through the kidneys - liver metabolism (as would be the case with oral drugs), so they're gonna be removed largely this way, right? (or wrong?)

With orally admined drugs, they'll undergo first pass metabolism before crossing the blood brain barrier.

My question being - similar to alternate ROA's like insufflation or IV injection - which by-passes first pass metabolism and goes straight to the brain - heavy metals (be it mercury or something else), that were say, surgically implanted and thus constituent release was directly into the blood stream, these would not have the same clearance opportunity as heavy metals subject to oral exposure or ingestion before brain exposure - and thus, could be more harmful?
Theoretically?

At the very least they'd be subject to brain exposure before removal via the kidneys (which is less likely to be the case with orally ingested mercury?)

I'm not too well up on metabolic process overall so, I assume after brain exposure, the blood containing heavy metals will eventually be filtered through the liver kidneys and subject to potential removal - after.

But the above point stands - say mercury or heavy metals subject to oral exposure vs intravenous exposure - the process of implication could potentially be vastly different, harmful effects etc.

Is that a little far reaching, or bear any relevance?

 

[Skorpio]

I think you are referring to the effects of first pass metabolism on orally dosed compounds versus intravenous.

Mercury poisoning occurs over a long enough time where one transit through the liver becomes rather insignificant. Furthermore inorganic mercury is kind of a crapshoot to whether liver metabolism detoxifies or toxifies the mercury.

Also Roxford: I have always heard that the etiology of organomercury poisoning involves the inhibition of selenoenzymes that are involved in antioxidant production. Can you cite a source showing significant COMT inhibition? I am wary because COMT isn't the main/only way catecholamines are metabolized, MAO should provide some redundancy.

 

[Bravoncius Roxford]

I think you are referring to the effects of first pass metabolism on orally dosed compounds versus intravenous.

Mercury poisoning occurs over a long enough time where one transit through the liver becomes rather insignificant. Furthermore inorganic mercury is kind of a crapshoot to whether liver metabolism detoxifies or toxifies the mercury.

Also Roxford: I have always heard that the etiology of organomercury poisoning involves the inhibition of selenoenzymes that are involved in antioxidant production. Can you cite a source showing significant COMT inhibition? I am wary because COMT isn't the main/only way catecholamines are metabolized, MAO should provide some redundancy.

Ok, I am gona try to find. COMT inhbitiion raises catecholamines primarilly in the pre-frontal cortex. Because there is a relative lack of dopamine transporters there, and the NE transporter is only marginally effective at removing DA from synapssis, so dopamine accumulates. Also, while MAO-A is overexpressed there, there is a relative lack of MAO-B, despite the fact that 80% of brain MAO is of the B isoform. So catabolism of catecholamines, especially DA, becomes significantly impaired there when COMT is inhibited, due to relative lack of other catabolic enzymes and underexpression of the DA transporter.

Inhibition of COMT is not na effective monotherapy for Parkinson's because it fails to raise DA in the striatum, unlike, say, selective MAO-B inhibition which does increase DA in this region. It makes levodopa more available to the brain, but does not significantly increase DA where it matters because DA is not catabolized by COMT there. So COMT inhbitiors are used mostly to increase the systemic bioavailability of levodopa to the brain by inhbiting catabolism peripherically, and not necessarily for centrally impairing catabolism of dopamine.

The reason why you often don't see pseudo-symptoms of Me poisoning in people taking COMT inhibitors is because most COMT inhibitors used medically, with the sole exception of tolcapone(which is seldom used due to hepatotoxicity), do not cross the blood-brain barier effectively and thus do not inhibit COMT centrally. However, there are some people that are born with a mutant version of the COMT gene that substitutes a valine for a methionine at a given position of the protein. This makes the enzyme much less stable at the human body temperature of 37 Celsius, and results in up to 75% enzyme catabolism decrease with a resulted average 60-70% higher DA levels. They exhibit psychological characteristics that do resemble Me pisoning and also Rabies infection to a lesser degree of course: they are very fidgety, nervous, extremely stress-prone, anxious and introverted. On the flip side, they report over twice the positive emotions compared to people with the normal variant of the gene and have a much stronger response to positive stimulus. They also have high psychological resistence to alcholoism and nicotine addiction, but are about twice as likely to get addicted to stimulants like cocaine and amphetamines. The reason for this is that, since they have a larger pool of dopamine due to impaired metabolism, they experience signifcantly greater dopamine release when taking amphetamines or more extracellular DA increases when taking cocaine. Basically, they have more "bullets" stored to be fired. Even mild stimulants like caffeine can be highly addictive to people that carry the mutant version of the gene. These people often report that apprehension and restlessness are the banes of their lives. They tend to respond much more positively and dramatically to the SSRIs, especially to paroxetine, compared to people with the normal version of the gene.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Getting rid of all of my Amalgaam cured me of the horrible magnetic effect's of metal filling's. They used Cofferdam to prevent the Quick Silver from escaping to much. Al dentist's should as the are exposed the most imo.

After removal I felt no different but I can chew on alu-foil without electric current's flowing. And it feel's great having that piece of shit filling that should never been commercialized out of my body.

Meaning it throughly feel's better to have it out of my system. Another thing that is past history is the disgusting taste Amalgaam would give with certain, probably overfertilized or pesticized, bag's of Weed.
Never had one occurence with the new trash they put in, the white looking ones.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

Getting rid of all of my Amalgaam cured me of the horrible magnetic effect's of metal filling's. They used Cofferdam to prevent the Quick Silver from escaping to much. Al dentist's should as the are exposed the most imo.

After removal I felt no different but I can chew on alu-foil without electric current's flowing. And it feel's great having that piece of shit filling that should never been commercialized out of my body.

Meaning it throughly feel's better to have it out of my system. Another thing that is past history is the disgusting taste Amalgaam would give with certain, probably overfertilized or pesticized, bag's of Weed.
Never had one occurence with the new trash they put in, the white looking ones.

You felt no different after removal?
But it still felt better to have it out of your system...?

Does that mean - it didn't impact your energy levels or anything - but you know you did the right thing having them removed?

 

[emkee_reinvented]

You felt no different after removal?
But it still felt better to have it out of your system...?

Does that mean - it didn't impact your energy levels or anything - but you know you did the right thing having them removed?

Well what you mention about doing the right thing was one of them, I do advise a harm reductive approach. Back then there was Rubber and Cofferdam. But using cooling or slow drilling is a plus I reckon.

But beside the knowledge of getting rit of a few ton's of mercury. I had filling all over. No remarkeable intelectual boost or raise in energy level's but like I mentioned. It freed me of the annoying magnetism in my mouth. As result I grind less aka Bruxism. And the once in a while weed effect of what basicly is the mercury and other metals reacting with something in there. Totally gone.

I wonder what it was that reacted with the amalgaam. Weed is illegal over here, despite our nice 'coffeshops' and there ain't no quality control. Although the branche is doing it's best to get some kind of control on what is sold. A third party cannabinoid content and pesticide residue check.

 

[Skorpio]

@bravonculis

I cant find anything about mercury or rabies having effects on COMT on pubmed or google scholar.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

Well what you mention about doing the right thing was one of them, I do advise a harm reductive approach. Back then there was Rubber and Cofferdam. But using cooling or slow drilling is a plus I reckon.

But beside the knowledge of getting rit of a few ton's of mercury. I had filling all over. No remarkeable intelectual boost or raise in energy level's but like I mentioned. It freed me of the annoying magnetism in my mouth. As result I grind less aka Bruxism. And the once in a while weed effect of what basicly is the mercury and other metals reacting with something in there. Totally gone.

I wonder what it was that reacted with the amalgaam. Weed is illegal over here, despite our nice 'coffeshops' and there ain't no quality control. Although the branche is doing it's best to get some kind of control on what is sold. A third party cannabinoid content and pesticide residue check.

Are you based in Nederland?

When you say you didn't experience an intellectual boost or energy improvement - was this something that you had and/or do suffered from?
i.e cognitive impairment, executive dysfunction, lethargy and/or fatigue?

Did you or do you experience stomach/gut issues of any kind? Candida etc?

Any issues getting the fillings replaced?
Like enlargement of cavities - sometimes peoples teeth can get messed up during the drilling-out phase, and they may need a root canal or something after.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Are you based in Nederland?

When you say you didn't experience an intellectual boost or energy improvement - was this something that you had and/or do suffered from?
i.e cognitive impairment, executive dysfunction, lethargy and/or fatigue?

Did you or do you experience stomach/gut issues of any kind? Candida etc?

Any issues getting the fillings replaced?
Like enlargement of cavities - sometimes peoples teeth can get messed up during the drilling-out phase, and they may need a root canal or something after.

Based in the lowlands indeed. But, and this is my gut feeling, I do feel Amalgaam negatively affect's your being. The release of metal from the filling's is undebatable imo. To what extent they are harmfull I haven't got a clue?

I used to be more sluggish and my brain devoid of the ability to focus. Hard to pinpoint if my more coherent state after the removal was caused by natural phenomena like aging or by removal of a toxic metal releasing implant. But looking back there was improvement. The disappearing of my 'so used to' brain fog was independent of my AD(H)D medication. On it before during and after the procedure. But the transition was very slow, I was on a lot of (unnessesary med's, using drugs and having life changing events happening one after another) Hard to pinpoint.


You know what, I used Kratom for pain management through the whole ordeal. All 4 sides of my mouth refurbished. Pain management is a really poor practice over here.
But back to the intestinal problems you mentioned!
Kratom always got my credit for solving my belly aches and poor shit's. I truelly believed the normalization of it was a result of my little habit. Even after I stopped taking it I having consistently good poo. Never thought about it but it concured, their disappearance, with the removal of them filling's.

The replacement was done by the best tooth dr I crossed path's with's untill today. They took me on as patient merely on the fact that they had an approach for removal that I was looking for.

They rather have you do your dental's at the dentist on the corner of your block so to speak. They granted my request on that, looking for save removal. Which had to be done as I was told by my former dentist who I visited before my moval.

Root canal's, according to this godess of the enamal. The one who removed the Mercury. Is not a good practice. It leaves a hollow/ death tooth that is a palace for infestion's.
I walked in with a rootcanal in my mouth, the first visit. A photo revealed a big problem.

It was by the looks on their face during removal I realized I had been walking around with an life threathoning absess of quite a size. Walked around for over a year with a timebomb in my mouth.

Death teeth are like abandoned castle's! Be aware.

Let's see if I can pull it of again. Posting a image

So that is Rubberdam, which is the same as Cofferdam. Mine didn't go all the way out of my mouth so they probably had a smaller version. Who knows?

During the procedure I was that good tranquilized. It was my first time using Etizolam. Though that 2 and a 1/2 hours before leaving my presumeably wife at that time decided to do some of her mental Kung-Fu on me. That def helped in getting me face forward in benzo amnesia. How on earth I was able to go to Montfoort and back to the big city using multiple means of transportation is a mystery. I was also on various other substance's daily atm, Kratom, dex-Amphetamin and Methoxetamine come to mind.

Got awarded most relaxed patient ever when I was making excuses for being that wasted and having a blue tongue. From subligualing a lot of em.

Snippets of memory are on receits of shop's and some scribling in my agenda. I apperrently bought the whole dental clinic a sweet banket. And my dr. got an extra, a bar of some special choclate. But that was a promise I made beforehand for after the last part of the procedure. Sort of sober, so it's not that wasted.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

Based in the lowlands indeed. But, and this is my gut feeling, I do feel Amalgaam negatively affect's your being. The release of metal from the filling's is undebatable imo. To what extent they are harmfull I haven't got a clue?

I used to be more sluggish and my brain devoid of the ability to focus. Hard to pinpoint if my more coherent state after the removal was caused by natural phenomena like aging or by removal of a toxic metal releasing implant. But looking back there was improvement. The disappearing of my 'so used to' brain fog was independent of my AD(H)D medication. On it before during and after the procedure. But the transition was very slow, I was on a lot of (unnessesary med's, using drugs and having life changing events happening one after another) Hard to pinpoint.


You know what, I used Kratom for pain management through the whole ordeal. All 4 sides of my mouth refurbished. Pain management is a really poor practice over here.
But back to the intestinal problems you mentioned!
Kratom always got my credit for solving my belly aches and poor shit's. I truelly believed the normalization of it was a result of my little habit. Even after I stopped taking it I having consistently good poo. Never thought about it but it concured, their disappearance, with the removal of them filling's.

The replacement was done by the best tooth dr I crossed path's with's untill today. They took me on as patient merely on the fact that they had an approach for removal that I was looking for.

They rather have you do your dental's at the dentist on the corner of your block so to speak. They granted my request on that, looking for save removal. Which had to be done as I was told by my former dentist who I visited before my moval.

Root canal's, according to this godess of the enamal. The one who removed the Mercury. Is not a good practice. It leaves a hollow/ death tooth that is a palace for infestion's.
I walked in with a rootcanal in my mouth, the first visit. A photo revealed a big problem.

It was by the looks on their face during removal I realized I had been walking around with an life threathoning absess of quite a size. Walked around for over a year with a timebomb in my mouth.

Death teeth are like abandoned castle's! Be aware.

So - essentially you are in fact attributing some symptoms, potentially - to the amalgams...?

Not trying to put you on the spot here but, for clarity's sake.

I spoke with a lady in a couple towns over recently, whose information was passed to be by a dental clinic that also specializes in removal of these fillings, mercury free etc.

And she basically had similar reports.
Though in her case, blood tests showed legitimate high levels of heavy metals.

But that's good stuff as to the insightful feedback.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

So - essentially you are in fact attributing some symptoms, potentially - to the amalgams...?

Not trying to put you on the spot here but, for clarity's sake.

I spoke with a lady in a couple towns over recently, whose information was passed to be by a dental clinic that also specializes in removal of these fillings, mercury free etc.

And she basically had similar reports.
Though in her case, blood tests showed legitimate high levels of heavy metals.

But that's good stuff as to the insightful feedback.

I am potentially contributing them to the filling's I had. But without hard proof?

But the sluggishnesh I had disappeared to a great degree. I always thought that was my constitution.

Seriously getting that shit replaced with composiet is imo the better option, especially if your filling are in for renuwal. Amalgaam still is legally in use by some of these dr's. Or should I call Them fuckers !

This youtube link is a nice pre historical piece about the danger's. Not related to my own removal. Mine was medically necesary and I felt bad about the garbage that was implanted in my mouth by dr's without integrity. In my youthfull day's that is! Fuckers Totally English Btw despite the Dutch title

 

[emkee_reinvented]

also



Fillings do not contain or produce methylmercury. If you eat fish regularly you get more exposure to mercury that way than if you had a filling on literally every tooth.

Well fuck meth-Mercury then! But can you please explain the mercury disposition in sheep in relation to men with Bruxism. And the posible dangers it posseses? Adressing the vid I posted?

It is something I am looking for, some direction of fear.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

I am potentially contributing them to the filling's I had. But without hard proof?

But the sluggishnesh I had disappeared to a great degree. I always thought that was my constitution.

Seriously getting that shit replaced with composiet is imo the better option, especially if your filling are in for renuwal. Amalgaam still is legally in use by some of these dr's. Or should I call Them fuckers !

This youtube link is a nice pre historical piece about the danger's. Not related to my own removal. Mine was medically necesary and I felt bad about the garbage that was implanted in my mouth by dr's without integrity. In my youthfull day's that is! Fuckers Totally English Btw despite the Dutch title

Do dentists in the Netherlands still use amalgam for fillings?

Or has it been phased out completely?

What were your medical reasons for needing them out?

My amalgams are in 20+ years at this point but, many dentists say they can last a lifetime - potentially no need for replacement.

 

[Bravoncius Roxford]

@bravonculis

I cant find anything about mercury or rabies having effects on COMT on pubmed or google scholar.

Here you go: Mercury directly inhibits COMT: ....

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Mercury inhibits COMT indirectly by potently depleting s-adenosylmethionine: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...013.43.9.581&usg=AOvVaw3m9L7MwC0aEhQgJtXBFApY
Mercury reversibly and potently inhibits COMT v8ia competitive inhibition of substrate: https://books.google.com.br/books?i...KEwjhqbe9lO3jAhV2HrkGHTHyCOQ4ChDoATAGegQIBhAB

But these are not really relevant for the most part due to elemental Mercury being so poorly absorbed by the body. Mercury toxicity is mostly related to chelated Mercury in organic salts of methylated Mercury which easily permeates cell membranes due to it's liphophilic nature. This is simply not relevant when it comes to regular Mercury unless you work with Mercury and it exposed to it in huge amounts every day.