Mental illness and God

[ovenbakedskittles]

It seems as the years go by people become more and more aware of these cultural and sociological dilemmas and finding new and better ways to cope and to treat and some cases even cure. However I still feel like the routines of normal everyday life and the annoyances of inconveniences and our usual circular focuses distracts us from the impact that these social issues have on our lives not just physically but mentally and spiritually.

Many people feel that they are aware of these things but they feel that their individual duties are more important. As a result these social issues become a faint thought in their everyday lives and not really present enough in their minds to where they could see the true magnitude of these problems that are seemingly separate from that persons individual experience. It is possible to know something intellectually and yet not have a connection to it emotionally but the truth is (which im sure a lot of people here know) everything is connected in a very literal sense. All of these political and social problems affect your life in one way or another and at some point you are going to have to face these things and contribute to the expansion of knowledge that we must attain to solve these problems.

To a lot of people mental illness is still seen as something that you should feel sorry for and something to where you have to give medication in order to acclamate yourself to the standards of what society deems a functional member of society. Not only that but they put them in institutions where they put drugs in their food and then end up perpetuating their symptoms and behaviors and mental issues instead of providing any real help (these are the more extreme cases but still important). This is on a spectrum. We attribute labels to these kinds of things which is understandable but at the same time it just reinforces the idea of separation and ignores the fact that all of these seemingly separate "illnesses" are one big giant spectrum that connects all of these diseases together.

So with all that being said we tend to look at things separately because of the labels and judgements that society felt they needed to place in relation to these types of problems. As a result of this reinforcement of separation we lost sight of what God was and the true nature of God and we succumbed to creating dictative or authoritave versions of God which are false and are just a reflection of this separation mentality that has been prevelant in civilization for like a very long time now. AND as another result it has caused a reasonable amount of doubt about god in general even to the people who were wise enough to recognize the inconsistencies and the falsehood of organized religion. Because once they have that realization, they already have such a negative preconception of God that it is hard for them to imagine a god that is all loving and compassionate and so they become skeptical and then eventually become atheists. And i dont mean to offend anybody or speak too quickly i could be wrong and i do understand that there are many different reasons for people becoming atheist. But that is what is apparent from my perspective. The process of getting to that point of skeptism is merely trading one way of seeking truth for another. One is not more useful or more better than the other. They both have the same ultimate purpose: seeking truth. It is the shadow of people that is the problem. Our tendency for choosing sides and arguing and dividing and debating and wanting power/control over another and being the superior one. That is what needs to change. Passing judgement and belittlement unto people who believe differently, even if it conflicts with science, that is what needs to change. Because in order for us to move forward we must accept the fact that science is not the one way ticket to truth. It is merely an establishment/community that focuses on a particular aspect of reality that being the physical.

The only way to real truth is by awakening yourself and realizing that you already know the truth yourself and not be so dependant on outside resources. Yes theyre useful and have value but they are not things that we should wholly attach ourselves to and let it carry us on into a society thats not aligned with who you truly are and what makes you a unique and free human being.

 

[Vastness]

I might not disagree with you in principle - but I am a little unclear on what exactly you are trying to say. I would appreciate if you could clarify specifically what actions one must take in order to embark upon the path to "real truth" -

by awakening yourself and realizing that you already know the truth yourself and not be so dependant on outside resources

...and, having taken these actions, what specific, functional differences you would expect to see in the life of such an individual, and in society at large should a sufficient quantity of individuals embark upon such a path.

Personally I can't help being skeptical of such vague allusions to "real truth" and the problems of material reductionism. Besides science - what other paths to truth are there? I'm not saying science is the only path, or that there might not be other paths - I'm just not clear what other paths you're referring to.

Modern science is of course primarily focused on physical reality, but there is no reason in principle that the scientific method couldn't be applied to other domains.

I would generally agree that atheism is a essentially a reaction to nonsensical, dogmatic theism of a bygone age - one might argue it is an overcorrection, and that agnosticism would be the more intellectually honest "default" viewpoint, absent any militant indoctrinated theism or reactionary but equally militant anti-theism. However I don't really follow what point you are trying to make beyond this.

 

[ovenbakedskittles]

I might not disagree with you in principle - but I am a little unclear on what exactly you are trying to say. I would appreciate if you could clarify specifically what actions one must take in order to embark upon the path to "real truth" -
...and, having taken these actions, what specific, functional differences you would expect to see in the life of such an individual, and in society at large should a sufficient quantity of individuals embark upon such a path.

Personally I can't help being skeptical of such vague allusions to "real truth" and the problems of material reductionism. Besides science - what other paths to truth are there? I'm not saying science is the only path, or that there might not be other paths - I'm just not clear what other paths you're referring to.

Modern science is of course primarily focused on physical reality, but there is no reason in principle that the scientific method couldn't be applied to other domains.

I would generally agree that atheism is a essentially a reaction to nonsensical, dogmatic theism of a bygone age - one might argue it is an overcorrection, and that agnosticism would be the more intellectually honest "default" viewpoint, absent any militant indoctrinated theism or reactionary but equally militant anti-theism. However I don't really follow what point you are trying to make beyond this.

Sorry about that... Its just that there is so many aspects to this and it happens on so many levels that some people arent aware of that its hard to put into words and hard to put all the information down in a organized way that most people can understand but let me try and clarify...

Basically what one needs to do is realize that relying on external sources for truth such as science and religion disempower you to an extent from your true authentic self. It disables and deters you from exploring your own genuine unique thought process and critical thinking and you adopt a form of ideologies and outlooks that are not entirely your own but rather the ideologies and outlooks of a separate entity or community that embedded these secular mentalities and outlooks in the society we live in.

These secular ideas appeal to your logical side and then we become convinced that that is the way. But in reality these outside notions that come into your awareness when you proceed with this skeptical mentality are actually convincing you more and more that you dont have the answers and that they do and that you should follow them instead of yourself and if you don't then society looks down on you in some way. Its really a one sided thing that they are trying to push on you and we need to realize that we have the potential to problem solve in ways that we could never have imagined with amazing accuracy just by ourselves. But since its a muscle of the mind that needs to be built up it requires a lot of time and effort that people arent willing to put in and instead they let an outside entity carry them on because they are not confident enough in themselves to find truth. They take advantage of that common trait in humans.

And what science doesnt understand is that your reality is dependant on your beliefs. So if you have a whole bunch of people that believe the world is all physical and that god is just superstition and that consciousness is just byproduct of the brain then they are never gonna find evidence for the supernatural because they dont believe that it can actually happen in the first place. And even if they do discover something odd or peculiar that might point to something greater they will just rationalize it away with whatever belief system they have and make it seem like its less than what it really is. Its a trick of the mind thate even scientists arent aware of. From our perception it seems like they are moving forward and making these great discoveries but all of those discoveries are limited to the belief system of the science community and whoever the science community influences with their logical appeal which is a lot of people. Because our lives revolve around the physical so of course its gonna seem logical to us once they present those ideas to us.

But then the more we become convinced the more we shy away from god and he becomes fainter and fainter in our belief system that the concept of god eventually seems ridiculous. These are tricks of the mind that society hasn't figured out yet... Or maybe they have and They just dont think thats whats happening in relation to science because we like to think of these people as intelligent and well rounded logical people who dont get tricked by things like that but they are humans just like you and I and are subjected to these tricks just as much because of their belief system.

With that being said it is apparent that we must awaken ourselves to our true potential by studying our internal thoughts and emotions and working out any supressed feelings or thoughts that dominating our lives subconsciously. For example an atheist would have to explore himself internally and consider the possibility that they merely traded one belief system for another and that the only person they can trust is themselves. That they can figure out and discover so much more without soley depending on science. And a religious person would have to do the same and realize that god is not a separate being that youre supposed to worship but is inside you. Just like how the atheist has capabilities inside them which they are not aware. Its the same dilemma for both sides just different variables.

And with that being said, since both sides have that similar problem of not being aware of their full potential as a human being, it is apparent that instead of both sides arguing against eachother about who is right and who is wrong, they must learn to come together and combine their perspectives and try to figure out which notions work and which notions don't while being considerate of the other sides feelings and beliefs and making compromises. This split of ideologies in two separate areas of reality just makes it harder to find the real truth because the real truth lies in togetherness, not anger and resentment and separation and argumentative dominance and debate. That just confuses you even more in the long run and causes more separation and as a result we distance ourselves from objective truth which is more like a puzzle that we have to put together using other peoples perspectives and not necessarily using tools and technology.

And dont get me wrong!!! I'm not saying that science is useless. Its a great way to help us find truth but not the only way. They need to invite or at least consider other perspectives and opinions even if they might conflict with science. We cant keep passing judgement and claiming superstition if we want to really find truth. Those behaviors are just ego and superior thinking. We need to see our ideas as equal no matter how much it annoys us.

 

[Vastness]

I think you have some misconceptions about what science is - unfortunately something that is all too common.

Besides that, sorry to say I am still not able to extract much of a coherent point from your post. I think it would help to clarify what you are trying to convey if you could give just one, specific example of how one could, as you put it -

problem solve in ways that we could never have imagined with amazing accuracy just by ourselves

Specifically, what problems can be solved, what methods could be used to solve this problem, and what solution has, historically, originated from an individual or society approaching such a problem via this intuitive and non-scientific method (if, indeed, there are any such examples that have occurred previously in human history).

 

[ovenbakedskittles]

I think you have some misconceptions about what science is - unfortunately something that is all too common.

Besides that, sorry to say I am still not able to extract much of a coherent point from your post. I think it would help to clarify what you are trying to convey if you could give just one, specific example of how one could, as you put it -

Specifically, what problems can be solved, what methods could be used to solve this problem, and what solution has, historically, originated from an individual or society approaching such a problem via this intuitive and non-scientific method (if, indeed, there are any such examples that have occurred previously in human history).

The act of reserving your beliefs until evidence comes along may seem logical but that is what keeps us from dicovering these abilities in the first place and on top of that scientists try to rationalize these occurences by enforcing their own belief systems and using the modern criteria for whats considered logical and sound. The concept of god is probably the example of all examples; people say "god saved me" or "its a miracle" and then scientists say "no its just chance and probability and youre just clinging to superstition." Its just a difference in perspective and opinion but scientists will twist it in such a way to convince you that is fact. You are not going to see a specific form of evidence because of how scientists twist it to make it seem like something less than what it really is. Its just that people favor science claims because it aligns with the aspect of reality that they have been focused on since birth which is the physical.

Its not until you come across a child that has extracensory abilities that you even slightly consider ther being something more than the physical and the observable. But then scientist and psychologists does the same thing with that and tries to minimize it into something they can understand from a limited physical perspective and start mentioning an imbalance in chemicals and all that stuff. The imbalance of chemicals in the brain is a result of these higher energies and processes that we are not consciously aware of but they fixate on the physical chemicals of the brain instead because of their limited understanding and belief systems and the fact that they dont believe that this energies even exist in the first place.

But its like what they say about how the egyptians built the pyramids or how ancient people had an understanding of astronomy. Theres tons and tons of events that have happened that baffle scientists and archaeologists and psychologists but they will always rationalize into their limited understanding of what theyre observing until they hit some kind of plateu like dark matter and dark energy something thats really challenging their belief system even though they want to make it seem like its just another common challenge or frontier in science. Same thing with ghosts and alien abductions and other paranormal experiences. Minimized into hallucinations and delusions by the psychology community because of their limited understanding of the vastness of the world that we are not consciously aware of. They provide labels and search for chemical reactions and imbalances and behaviorial inconsistencies in an attempt to tackle something thats much greater than them and requires more faith than reason. And that is something that they are having a hard time with because their whole career revolves around reserving your beliefs for undeniable evidence that THEY consider reasonable.

People are afraid to have faith because they are afraid of being let down. And you may claim it is a reasonable fear but fear is not something that we are supposed to latch onto in an attempt to be logical. Fear and paranoia is what holds us back from considering other perspectives that might be of value when seeking objective truth. Because those perspectives might not always align with science. And therefore if your reason for rejecting a concept is because it does not align with science or its not backed by physical undeniable evidence thats provided by science, you are limiting yourself to the greater possibilities that life has to offer and you are merely percieving things according to your preconcieved notion of what you think reality is in the first place which is based on these secular ideologies that science has presented to society.

You cant really expect to see evidence of this intuitive ability used by society because science does and says so many things that discourages that and has so many behaviors and outlooks that are in complete contradiction to those types of abilities and as a result not a lot of people in society are willing to try and nurture those abilities.

 

[Vastness]

Ancient people really didn't have much of a clue about astronomy compared to what we know of the field in the present day.

Science, fundamentally, is a method of applying logical reasoning systematically in order to test the objective reality of a given hypothesis.

It is not, contrary to popular opinion, a prescribed doctrine about how one must view the world, or a list of facts that one must believe to be true, lest ye be cast out and excommunicated from the Grand Church of Science. Scientists are a disparate community of individuals who, much like any segment of human society, have a wide range of personal opinions on topics that fall both within the remit of their particular field or outside it, and they may express an opinion on one or many topics without this being an accurate representation of the official, Church of Science-endorsed view of the topic. I am speaking of course about the existence of god and the likelihood of claims of alien abduction or the paranormal that you mentioned having some kind of objective reality rather than being explicable by delusion, illusion, and human gullibility.

Suffice to say the fact that science has not yet and may not ever explain absolutely everything does not really have any relevance when evaluating it as a method by which we can reasonably try to understand reality. For that matter - if we were to apply this same logic that dark energy and dark matter constitute a "plateau" which calls into question the usefulness or validity of the scientific method, then this pretty effectively invalidates the usefulness of absolutely any other method of understanding that anyone could think of, since there is surely no method of gaining understanding that can be embarked upon that does not begin with many unknowns.

Human intuition if anything fails far more rapidly and far more often, even when attempting to interpret far simpler systems than the energy balance of an incomprehensibly vast cosmos - a question which is outside the remit of natural human intuition anyway. Surely you aren't proposing that we could intuit, without use of the scientific method, a more accurate and detailed model of the cosmos than the one derived from modern astronomy and all the vagueness surrounding dark matter and dark energy? I suspect not, because that would surely be nonsensical.

 

[ovenbakedskittles]

Ancient people really didn't have much of a clue about astronomy compared to what we know of the field in the present day.

Science, fundamentally, is a method of applying logical reasoning systematically in order to test the objective reality of a given hypothesis.

It is not, contrary to popular opinion, a prescribed doctrine about how one must view the world, or a list of facts that one must believe to be true, lest ye be cast out and excommunicated from the Grand Church of Science. Scientists are a disparate community of individuals who, much like any segment of human society, have a wide range of personal opinions on topics that fall both within the remit of their particular field or outside it, and they may express an opinion on one or many topics without this being an accurate representation of the official, Church of Science-endorsed view of the topic. I am speaking of course about the existence of god and the likelihood of claims of alien abduction or the paranormal that you mentioned having some kind of objective reality rather than being explicable by delusion, illusion, and human gullibility.

Suffice to say the fact that science has not yet and may not ever explain absolutely everything does not really have any relevance when evaluating it as a method by which we can reasonably try to understand reality. For that matter - if we were to apply this same logic that dark energy and dark matter constitute a "plateau" which calls into question the usefulness or validity of the scientific method, then this pretty effectively invalidates the usefulness of absolutely any other method of understanding that anyone could think of, since there is surely no method of gaining understanding that can be embarked upon that does not begin with many unknowns.

Human intuition if anything fails far more rapidly and far more often, even when attempting to interpret far simpler systems than the energy balance of an incomprehensibly vast cosmos - a question which is outside the remit of natural human intuition anyway. Surely you aren't proposing that we could intuit, without use of the scientific method, a more accurate and detailed model of the cosmos than the one derived from modern astronomy and all the vagueness surrounding dark matter and dark energy? I suspect not, because that would surely be nonsensical.

But you seeing it as nonsensical is why you cant see it in the first place. You are already rejecting the concept and placing judgement on it because it doesn't align with the methods that scientists use to seek truth and it doesn't align with your past experiences and observations and frames of references.

And like i said before intuition is a muscle we must build in order for it to be a useful and efficient way of solving these larger concepts even if we re just talking about science. You just assume that its non sensical and yet I dont think you ever really made any attempt to put in the effort and dedication to achieve that intuitive efficiency. Nor has the majority of the population including your peers so how do you know for sure that this concept is so "non sensical"? They believe what science tells them to believe because they are not confident enough to seek truth themselves. They are not knowledgable about how intuition works because they focus on the physical reactions of intuition instead. Again demonstrating a limited physical perspective and trying to apply it to something that's much more complex and transcends that perspective. If you keep telling yourself that these things are non sensical then that will become your reality. And that is all you will be limited to. Its a judgement that you place because you dont believe it yourself even though youve never really tried to examine it and you just depend on the physical evidence and methods that are provided by a separate entity and by your own individual observations.

This is why intuition fails us now because science keeps beating it down and not giving it a chance to grow and flourish. And thats why scientists always have these counterintuitive situations where they think something works one way and then it ends up happening another way. If They were in tune and in harmony with that intuitive ability they wouldnt have those problems. But their whole career revolves around doing the opposite so of course theirs gonna be times like that and of course its gonna seem like intuition is just failing all across the board because the influence of science is so strong and convincing that the average person will start to lose these intuitive abilities. And then when They try to display any intuitive action and they fail people in the science community have this attitude of "see? You don't know the answers and you cant figure them out for yourself so might as well follow us. And if you dont follow us then you are just choosing to be ignorant". When they are the ones that actually caused that to happen in the first place! Its that attitude that they dont want to admit to because they are not aware of their true thoughts and feelings like i said earlier and have this deep resentment towards the religious community so that any mention of something supernatural or mystical rubs them the wrong way. It is not really that productive in seeking truth as much as they think it is and they are unaware of how their feelings towards the religious community affects their lives and their decisions and their judgements in these types of matters.

 

[Mikeybd27]

I have only a few words to say The Great Dillusion. The metal hospital puts a label on you and says your crazy. Oops ? probably for being a little extra creative. Who actually even leaves a metal hospital with out a problem? Now the patient suffers most likely on meds believing he has a real serious problem. He doubts his every move every thought, he can’t even breath. He is fucked up on meds and he is crazy ?. His whole life suffers from it. Internally and the people around are just not really there anymore.
This happens every day every minute. People are on drugs, drugs,drugs =$$$ so before you believe in something you’re non personal doc tells you about your personal self, know that we only use a small portion of our brain. So how the hell do they already know everything about the mind??? They don’t we are just ruled by the rich ass twats.

 

[Foreigner]

I just read an article yesterday from an official source talking about how by all recent standard measures, psychological diagnoses are scientifically meaningless. If I can find the link I'll post it. Modern psychology institutions are pretty hopeless at fixing most people. The reason is that they are elaborate reframing tools that will work on people who have problems that can be remedied by overlaying a different story. Most people I've met with serious mental illness aren't helped by the tools available.

I spent most of my adult life "seeking" through spiritual systems. They are a huge maze with many pitfalls, and they don't address the human level experience very well. You also have to deal with "spiritual" people navigating these systems, who themselves are fucked up and in perpetuate states of confusion. But I will say... there is an answer. Few people get it, and fewer people can explain it. If you find those people, they can help you, if they are willing. I recently met a woman with multiple personality disorder (MPD) who is awake in every sense of the word, and she has found a way to tie all the people in her together through the one True Nature.

The 'two things' coming together that you describe, I would describe them differently. In modern psychotherapy they take the somatic approach by using the mind-body to reframe the mind-body. For example, if you're really strung out, where do you feel it in your body? Now focus on your feet. What does the floor feel like? Or... if you're having a bad story spinning in your mind, how can you reframe it with another story in order to make it right? The problem is, it never really works. They recently just posted a meta analysis on CBT and they found that it's mostly bullshit. People who do CBT or other dialectic therapies need to do them their whole lives because the same intrusive malignant thoughts always come back. So that's the first group.

The second group is the "spiritual" people, particularly the ones who practice "mindfulness". They have any number of spiritual practices that require discipline and effort. And maybe you feel better for 10 minutes while you're meditating on your rug, but then you get up and stub your toe and you're in Samsara again. Many of them are wooden, hollowed out practitioners who have spiritually bypassed their problems by abdicating them to the Absolute. You know, "I am not this body, I am not this time, I am not the person. I am oneness, I am divine, I am infinite." These people usually admonish ego as something to dissolve (which is impossible) and they go about doing this through a wide array of practices that are forms of self-denial and self-suppression. These people end up having no vital fire as they deny their human level experience. They sort of feel better because they have distanced themselves from their suffering, but the suffering never goes away. These people seem enlightened as shit until you trigger them emotionally then suddenly they seem like a petulant child having a tantrum because they are totally unprepared and ill equipped to handle the truth of their own suffering. In other words, major cognitive dissonance. Some of these people do a lot of psychedelics or ritualistic tripping. The problem is, it's all a lie. THERE'S NOWHERE TO GO. There's no "out there beyond". It's all happening right here. This is your enlightened life, right this second. And you seemingly have a mind-body that suffers and feels linear sensations, so there's no escape. The more you try to spiritually bypass, the more sick you end up getting.

The only system that has ever tied this all together in a very real way that has helped me heal childhood trauma + reconcile all the shit I see in the world, is Advaita / Vedanta, and I'm not even totally on board with it. There is one true reality happening and only one. In that true reality is the abscence of the subject-object experience. The problem is that projected from this unchanging reality is the world of duality, the world of "things", the world of "experience", which the mind-body is part of.

Yes, we're all God, this is all Oneness, but you are also an individuated form of God that is experiencing reality unto itself, just like the tree over there, or the woman walking her baby. The 10,000 things are seemingly happening, but nobody is behind them. Nobody is controlling them, yet they have undeniable form. So in this construct, God has come through as you, resonates as you, and this "you" who thinks he's a person has a story about how mentally ill he is. But it's not reality, it's a rabbit hole. You are Reality (or God, if you like) experiencing itself through a mind-body. There is an unchanging, non-dualistic reality consciousness at your core that is not mentally ill, and isn't anything. You are God personified.

My sense is that mental illness and all suffering in general originates with reality consciousness (or God awareness) projecting into a mind-body, and then THAT mind-body believes itself to be reality and the duality experience begins. All trauma happens on that experience level, but the reality consciousness itself is not experiencing anything. Yet it's all integrated.

This is a long way of saying that you can't negate the human level experience because it is a projection of God/Reality that is resonating AS THAT. Yet it's also wrong to say that consciousness is just the mind-body because the mind-body is not the beginning of reality and therefore is a piss poor frame of reference for finding solid ground. There is only ONE real thing and that real thing is the ground. All things arise and dissolve from that, and the "inner child" or origination of the personality is NOT where you should go to resolve suffering. Suffering began when reality consciousness identified with a mind-body, then the mind-body created further discursive layers or subject-object narratives based on raw simulation and latter conceptual input. This happens to all of us, we can't control it, but fundamentally, nothing is "happening" to reality consciousness and there is no one experiencing anything. If you can find ground in the origination, then the mind-body will experience immediate love, being held, and basically anything it ever could want. It is the end of fear and desire because nothing in the external world compares, because everything external is Samsaric, whereas reality consciousness is Satvic.

The only reason why people have trauma is because of memory. Reality consciousness is only HERE, right now. There is no past or future. All trauma, all suffering, is because of memory. The memory is so seemingly real that the mind-body acts it out, but it's possible to have a liason between reality consciousness and the memory-self that emerges in moments of delusion to render them neutral. It's like a burst of golden light, warmth, love and home that renders it all moot. Everyone goes down these rabbit holes because everyone bought into the duality experience at birth, even "normal" people with no mental illness. It's just that people with mental illness are more equipped to recognize the contrast.

Everyone I've ever met who healed themselves and has learned to live a grounded, embodied life where they no longer take anything personally with the world, REALIZES THIS. These people have the most fucked up and incredible life stories and now they are just normal people who feel love and bliss but are also not attached to being actionable in the world, acquiring shit, or chasing Samsara for solutions based on misattribution. It's amazing. They're not trying to "get" anything. There's nothing to get so stop fucking trying. It's all right here, right now.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Being very religious is in itself classed as mental illness - "Religious Mania" - not to be controversial, but I do agree that it's delusional disorder (I mean, really?). I remember back when my parents made me go to Church when I was like 8 years old and have the sense to think, these people are fucking insane.

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

Being very religious is in itself classed as mental illness - "Religious Mania" - not to be controversial, but I do agree that it's delusional disorder (I mean, really?). I remember back when my parents made me go to Church when I was like 8 years old and have the sense to think, these people are fucking insane.

Well I guess you have never smoked DMT or been touched by a higher force that just crushes your ego to dust & puts the true fear of "God" into you.
You'll NOT find these things in church though as you have attained.

 

[ovenbakedskittles]

I just read an article yesterday from an official source talking about how by all recent standard measures, psychological diagnoses are scientifically meaningless. If I can find the link I'll post it. Modern psychology institutions are pretty hopeless at fixing most people. The reason is that they are elaborate reframing tools that will work on people who have problems that can be remedied by overlaying a different story. Most people I've met with serious mental illness aren't helped by the tools available.

I spent most of my adult life "seeking" through spiritual systems. They are a huge maze with many pitfalls, and they don't address the human level experience very well. You also have to deal with "spiritual" people navigating these systems, who themselves are fucked up and in perpetuate states of confusion. But I will say... there is an answer. Few people get it, and fewer people can explain it. If you find those people, they can help you, if they are willing. I recently met a woman with multiple personality disorder (MPD) who is awake in every sense of the word, and she has found a way to tie all the people in her together through the one True Nature.

The 'two things' coming together that you describe, I would describe them differently. In modern psychotherapy they take the somatic approach by using the mind-body to reframe the mind-body. For example, if you're really strung out, where do you feel it in your body? Now focus on your feet. What does the floor feel like? Or... if you're having a bad story spinning in your mind, how can you reframe it with another story in order to make it right? The problem is, it never really works. They recently just posted a meta analysis on CBT and they found that it's mostly bullshit. People who do CBT or other dialectic therapies need to do them their whole lives because the same intrusive malignant thoughts always come back. So that's the first group.

The second group is the "spiritual" people, particularly the ones who practice "mindfulness". They have any number of spiritual practices that require discipline and effort. And maybe you feel better for 10 minutes while you're meditating on your rug, but then you get up and stub your toe and you're in Samsara again. Many of them are wooden, hollowed out practitioners who have spiritually bypassed their problems by abdicating them to the Absolute. You know, "I am not this body, I am not this time, I am not the person. I am oneness, I am divine, I am infinite." These people usually admonish ego as something to dissolve (which is impossible) and they go about doing this through a wide array of practices that are forms of self-denial and self-suppression. These people end up having no vital fire as they deny their human level experience. They sort of feel better because they have distanced themselves from their suffering, but the suffering never goes away. These people seem enlightened as shit until you trigger them emotionally then suddenly they seem like a petulant child having a tantrum because they are totally unprepared and ill equipped to handle the truth of their own suffering. In other words, major cognitive dissonance. Some of these people do a lot of psychedelics or ritualistic tripping. The problem is, it's all a lie. THERE'S NOWHERE TO GO. There's no "out there beyond". It's all happening right here. This is your enlightened life, right this second. And you seemingly have a mind-body that suffers and feels linear sensations, so there's no escape. The more you try to spiritually bypass, the more sick you end up getting.

The only system that has ever tied this all together in a very real way that has helped me heal childhood trauma + reconcile all the shit I see in the world, is Advaita / Vedanta, and I'm not even totally on board with it. There is one true reality happening and only one. In that true reality is the abscence of the subject-object experience. The problem is that projected from this unchanging reality is the world of duality, the world of "things", the world of "experience", which the mind-body is part of.

Yes, we're all God, this is all Oneness, but you are also an individuated form of God that is experiencing reality unto itself, just like the tree over there, or the woman walking her baby. The 10,000 things are seemingly happening, but nobody is behind them. Nobody is controlling them, yet they have undeniable form. So in this construct, God has come through as you, resonates as you, and this "you" who thinks he's a person has a story about how mentally ill he is. But it's not reality, it's a rabbit hole. You are Reality (or God, if you like) experiencing itself through a mind-body. There is an unchanging, non-dualistic reality consciousness at your core that is not mentally ill, and isn't anything. You are God personified.

My sense is that mental illness and all suffering in general originates with reality consciousness (or God awareness) projecting into a mind-body, and then THAT mind-body believes itself to be reality and the duality experience begins. All trauma happens on that experience level, but the reality consciousness itself is not experiencing anything. Yet it's all integrated.

This is a long way of saying that you can't negate the human level experience because it is a projection of God/Reality that is resonating AS THAT. Yet it's also wrong to say that consciousness is just the mind-body because the mind-body is not the beginning of reality and therefore is a piss poor frame of reference for finding solid ground. There is only ONE real thing and that real thing is the ground. All things arise and dissolve from that, and the "inner child" or origination of the personality is NOT where you should go to resolve suffering. Suffering began when reality consciousness identified with a mind-body, then the mind-body created further discursive layers or subject-object narratives based on raw simulation and latter conceptual input. This happens to all of us, we can't control it, but fundamentally, nothing is "happening" to reality consciousness and there is no one experiencing anything. If you can find ground in the origination, then the mind-body will experience immediate love, being held, and basically anything it ever could want. It is the end of fear and desire because nothing in the external world compares, because everything external is Samsaric, whereas reality consciousness is Satvic.

The only reason why people have trauma is because of memory. Reality consciousness is only HERE, right now. There is no past or future. All trauma, all suffering, is because of memory. The memory is so seemingly real that the mind-body acts it out, but it's possible to have a liason between reality consciousness and the memory-self that emerges in moments of delusion to render them neutral. It's like a burst of golden light, warmth, love and home that renders it all moot. Everyone goes down these rabbit holes because everyone bought into the duality experience at birth, even "normal" people with no mental illness. It's just that people with mental illness are more equipped to recognize the contrast.

Everyone I've ever met who healed themselves and has learned to live a grounded, embodied life where they no longer take anything personally with the world, REALIZES THIS. These people have the most fucked up and incredible life stories and now they are just normal people who feel love and bliss but are also not attached to being actionable in the world, acquiring shit, or chasing Samsara for solutions based on misattribution. It's amazing. They're not trying to "get" anything. There's nothing to get so stop fucking trying. It's all right here, right now.

Very interesting.

I just read an article yesterday from an official source talking about how by all recent standard measures, psychological diagnoses are scientifically meaningless. If I can find the link I'll post it. Modern psychology institutions are pretty hopeless at fixing most people. The reason is that they are elaborate reframing tools that will work on people who have problems that can be remedied by overlaying a different story. Most people I've met with serious mental illness aren't helped by the tools available.

I spent most of my adult life "seeking" through spiritual systems. They are a huge maze with many pitfalls, and they don't address the human level experience very well. You also have to deal with "spiritual" people navigating these systems, who themselves are fucked up and in perpetuate states of confusion. But I will say... there is an answer. Few people get it, and fewer people can explain it. If you find those people, they can help you, if they are willing. I recently met a woman with multiple personality disorder (MPD) who is awake in every sense of the word, and she has found a way to tie all the people in her together through the one True Nature.

The 'two things' coming together that you describe, I would describe them differently. In modern psychotherapy they take the somatic approach by using the mind-body to reframe the mind-body. For example, if you're really strung out, where do you feel it in your body? Now focus on your feet. What does the floor feel like? Or... if you're having a bad story spinning in your mind, how can you reframe it with another story in order to make it right? The problem is, it never really works. They recently just posted a meta analysis on CBT and they found that it's mostly bullshit. People who do CBT or other dialectic therapies need to do them their whole lives because the same intrusive malignant thoughts always come back. So that's the first group.

The second group is the "spiritual" people, particularly the ones who practice "mindfulness". They have any number of spiritual practices that require discipline and effort. And maybe you feel better for 10 minutes while you're meditating on your rug, but then you get up and stub your toe and you're in Samsara again. Many of them are wooden, hollowed out practitioners who have spiritually bypassed their problems by abdicating them to the Absolute. You know, "I am not this body, I am not this time, I am not the person. I am oneness, I am divine, I am infinite." These people usually admonish ego as something to dissolve (which is impossible) and they go about doing this through a wide array of practices that are forms of self-denial and self-suppression. These people end up having no vital fire as they deny their human level experience. They sort of feel better because they have distanced themselves from their suffering, but the suffering never goes away. These people seem enlightened as shit until you trigger them emotionally then suddenly they seem like a petulant child having a tantrum because they are totally unprepared and ill equipped to handle the truth of their own suffering. In other words, major cognitive dissonance. Some of these people do a lot of psychedelics or ritualistic tripping. The problem is, it's all a lie. THERE'S NOWHERE TO GO. There's no "out there beyond". It's all happening right here. This is your enlightened life, right this second. And you seemingly have a mind-body that suffers and feels linear sensations, so there's no escape. The more you try to spiritually bypass, the more sick you end up getting.

The only system that has ever tied this all together in a very real way that has helped me heal childhood trauma + reconcile all the shit I see in the world, is Advaita / Vedanta, and I'm not even totally on board with it. There is one true reality happening and only one. In that true reality is the abscence of the subject-object experience. The problem is that projected from this unchanging reality is the world of duality, the world of "things", the world of "experience", which the mind-body is part of.

Yes, we're all God, this is all Oneness, but you are also an individuated form of God that is experiencing reality unto itself, just like the tree over there, or the woman walking her baby. The 10,000 things are seemingly happening, but nobody is behind them. Nobody is controlling them, yet they have undeniable form. So in this construct, God has come through as you, resonates as you, and this "you" who thinks he's a person has a story about how mentally ill he is. But it's not reality, it's a rabbit hole. You are Reality (or God, if you like) experiencing itself through a mind-body. There is an unchanging, non-dualistic reality consciousness at your core that is not mentally ill, and isn't anything. You are God personified.

My sense is that mental illness and all suffering in general originates with reality consciousness (or God awareness) projecting into a mind-body, and then THAT mind-body believes itself to be reality and the duality experience begins. All trauma happens on that experience level, but the reality consciousness itself is not experiencing anything. Yet it's all integrated.

This is a long way of saying that you can't negate the human level experience because it is a projection of God/Reality that is resonating AS THAT. Yet it's also wrong to say that consciousness is just the mind-body because the mind-body is not the beginning of reality and therefore is a piss poor frame of reference for finding solid ground. There is only ONE real thing and that real thing is the ground. All things arise and dissolve from that, and the "inner child" or origination of the personality is NOT where you should go to resolve suffering. Suffering began when reality consciousness identified with a mind-body, then the mind-body created further discursive layers or subject-object narratives based on raw simulation and latter conceptual input. This happens to all of us, we can't control it, but fundamentally, nothing is "happening" to reality consciousness and there is no one experiencing anything. If you can find ground in the origination, then the mind-body will experience immediate love, being held, and basically anything it ever could want. It is the end of fear and desire because nothing in the external world compares, because everything external is Samsaric, whereas reality consciousness is Satvic.

The only reason why people have trauma is because of memory. Reality consciousness is only HERE, right now. There is no past or future. All trauma, all suffering, is because of memory. The memory is so seemingly real that the mind-body acts it out, but it's possible to have a liason between reality consciousness and the memory-self that emerges in moments of delusion to render them neutral. It's like a burst of golden light, warmth, love and home that renders it all moot. Everyone goes down these rabbit holes because everyone bought into the duality experience at birth, even "normal" people with no mental illness. It's just that people with mental illness are more equipped to recognize the contrast.

Everyone I've ever met who healed themselves and has learned to live a grounded, embodied life where they no longer take anything personally with the world, REALIZES THIS. These people have the most fucked up and incredible life stories and now they are just normal people who feel love and bliss but are also not attached to being actionable in the world, acquiring shit, or chasing Samsara for solutions based on misattribution. It's amazing. They're not trying to "get" anything. There's nothing to get so stop fucking trying. It's all right here, right now.

Amazing! You described things that i was trying to decribe but i didn't know how to word it properly but you also taught me something very important.

Ive been trying to convey this concept of integrating both the physical and the non physical and not just going towards one side too much because then it causes an imbalance. However i do admit that I sometimes tend to go towards the spiritual side more and its good to hear somebody explain that concept in the way you did to remind me to work towards balance and to not be so attached to outcomes and future expectations.

Sometimes I just feel like there are so many people who are strongly convinced that the physical is all there is and I feel like that outlook will eventually contribute to the downfall of society rather than move it forward like how certain scientific and atheistic figures suggest.

 

[Foreigner]

Very interesting.

Amazing! You described things that i was trying to decribe but i didn't know how to word it properly but you also taught me something very important.

Ive been trying to convey this concept of integrating both the physical and the non physical and not just going towards one side too much because then it causes an imbalance. However i do admit that I sometimes tend to go towards the spiritual side more and its good to hear somebody explain that concept in the way you did to remind me to work towards balance and to not be so attached to outcomes and future expectations.

Sometimes I just feel like there are so many people who are strongly convinced that the physical is all there is and I feel like that outlook will eventually contribute to the downfall of society rather than move it forward like how certain scientific and atheistic figures suggest.

The modern world is in spiritual crisis because it believes the mind-body the be the starting point of the problem. The mind-body is certainly where the "person" began but it wasn't the starting point of consciousness. As long as we keep trying to reframe things from the mind-body, we will only get more confused.

A lot of people know this, intuitively. How could they not, if they really do the inner inquiry? The mind is temporal and fickle, it's always changing. The body is linear and although it has brilliance, it also doesn't hold all the answers. Yet these people then go on various confused spiritual searches looking for a truth that they'll "know when they see", and they know it when they see it because the truth is already present, right here, right now. It's an external misattribution.

I agree with you that it's unfortunately that most people think the physical is all there is, but the solution to that is not to try and dissolve into the Absolute while you still have a physical mind-body because it will just make you suffer via denying your human level experience.

The solution is to come home to the ground of origination, which, yes, is a Oneness thing, but it's also a Oneness-As-You thing. God is projecting itself through your mind-body and that mind-body has a developed personality in the experience level that can experience the origin of his/her projection at any time. That ground is totally perfect and complete. Recognizing that with clear insight is how you deal with any mental illness. That seed of reality can shine through any other delusion, instantly. Like when I use mind to focus on reality consciousness, compassion instantly arises, my mind instantly goes quiet and my heart centre opens.

 

[Mikeybd27]

There are many realms to be in and none are lower or higher in my opinion if you find a relationship to it. I don’t believe in eternal truth or genius. I believe we’re all just humans sitting on a big rock in outer space. There is infinite possibilities and none are wrong it’s just the way we see things from our vantage point for our time. I believe in a creator or god but I also think that humans distant from today will be able to create a universe too. That’s is if we don’t blow our selves up first. Lol ?

 

[jb99]

Its not until you come across a child that has extracensory abilities...

Um say what?

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Being very religious is in itself classed as mental illness - "Religious Mania" - not to be controversial, but I do agree that it's delusional disorder (I mean, really?). I remember back when my parents made me go to Church when I was like 8 years old and have the sense to think, these people are fucking insane.

I'm with you on this one mate. Everyone I've met who claims to be religious has been at least slightly unhinged...

 

[Xorkoth]

I know plenty of people who are quietly religious and don't get all intense about it who are perfectly lovely and sane people who aren't obsessed, but I will agree that everyone I've encountered who can never shut up about it or who insist that everyone else believe the same have something going on in their brain that's not right...

 

[somnilicious]

I just read an article yesterday from an official source talking about how by all recent standard measures, psychological diagnoses are scientifically meaningless. If I can find the link I'll post it. Modern psychology institutions are pretty hopeless at fixing most people. The reason is that they are elaborate reframing tools that will work on people who have problems that can be remedied by overlaying a different story. Most people I've met with serious mental illness aren't helped by the tools available.

I spent most of my adult life "seeking" through spiritual systems. They are a huge maze with many pitfalls, and they don't address the human level experience very well. You also have to deal with "spiritual" people navigating these systems, who themselves are fucked up and in perpetuate states of confusion. But I will say... there is an answer. Few people get it, and fewer people can explain it. If you find those people, they can help you, if they are willing. I recently met a woman with multiple personality disorder (MPD) who is awake in every sense of the word, and she has found a way to tie all the people in her together through the one True Nature.

The 'two things' coming together that you describe, I would describe them differently. In modern psychotherapy they take the somatic approach by using the mind-body to reframe the mind-body. For example, if you're really strung out, where do you feel it in your body? Now focus on your feet. What does the floor feel like? Or... if you're having a bad story spinning in your mind, how can you reframe it with another story in order to make it right? The problem is, it never really works. They recently just posted a meta analysis on CBT and they found that it's mostly bullshit. People who do CBT or other dialectic therapies need to do them their whole lives because the same intrusive malignant thoughts always come back. So that's the first group.

The second group is the "spiritual" people, particularly the ones who practice "mindfulness". They have any number of spiritual practices that require discipline and effort. And maybe you feel better for 10 minutes while you're meditating on your rug, but then you get up and stub your toe and you're in Samsara again. Many of them are wooden, hollowed out practitioners who have spiritually bypassed their problems by abdicating them to the Absolute. You know, "I am not this body, I am not this time, I am not the person. I am oneness, I am divine, I am infinite." These people usually admonish ego as something to dissolve (which is impossible) and they go about doing this through a wide array of practices that are forms of self-denial and self-suppression. These people end up having no vital fire as they deny their human level experience. They sort of feel better because they have distanced themselves from their suffering, but the suffering never goes away. These people seem enlightened as shit until you trigger them emotionally then suddenly they seem like a petulant child having a tantrum because they are totally unprepared and ill equipped to handle the truth of their own suffering. In other words, major cognitive dissonance. Some of these people do a lot of psychedelics or ritualistic tripping. The problem is, it's all a lie. THERE'S NOWHERE TO GO. There's no "out there beyond". It's all happening right here. This is your enlightened life, right this second. And you seemingly have a mind-body that suffers and feels linear sensations, so there's no escape. The more you try to spiritually bypass, the more sick you end up getting.

The only system that has ever tied this all together in a very real way that has helped me heal childhood trauma + reconcile all the shit I see in the world, is Advaita / Vedanta, and I'm not even totally on board with it. There is one true reality happening and only one. In that true reality is the abscence of the subject-object experience. The problem is that projected from this unchanging reality is the world of duality, the world of "things", the world of "experience", which the mind-body is part of.

Yes, we're all God, this is all Oneness, but you are also an individuated form of God that is experiencing reality unto itself, just like the tree over there, or the woman walking her baby. The 10,000 things are seemingly happening, but nobody is behind them. Nobody is controlling them, yet they have undeniable form. So in this construct, God has come through as you, resonates as you, and this "you" who thinks he's a person has a story about how mentally ill he is. But it's not reality, it's a rabbit hole. You are Reality (or God, if you like) experiencing itself through a mind-body. There is an unchanging, non-dualistic reality consciousness at your core that is not mentally ill, and isn't anything. You are God personified.

My sense is that mental illness and all suffering in general originates with reality consciousness (or God awareness) projecting into a mind-body, and then THAT mind-body believes itself to be reality and the duality experience begins. All trauma happens on that experience level, but the reality consciousness itself is not experiencing anything. Yet it's all integrated.

This is a long way of saying that you can't negate the human level experience because it is a projection of God/Reality that is resonating AS THAT. Yet it's also wrong to say that consciousness is just the mind-body because the mind-body is not the beginning of reality and therefore is a piss poor frame of reference for finding solid ground. There is only ONE real thing and that real thing is the ground. All things arise and dissolve from that, and the "inner child" or origination of the personality is NOT where you should go to resolve suffering. Suffering began when reality consciousness identified with a mind-body, then the mind-body created further discursive layers or subject-object narratives based on raw simulation and latter conceptual input. This happens to all of us, we can't control it, but fundamentally, nothing is "happening" to reality consciousness and there is no one experiencing anything. If you can find ground in the origination, then the mind-body will experience immediate love, being held, and basically anything it ever could want. It is the end of fear and desire because nothing in the external world compares, because everything external is Samsaric, whereas reality consciousness is Satvic.

The only reason why people have trauma is because of memory. Reality consciousness is only HERE, right now. There is no past or future. All trauma, all suffering, is because of memory. The memory is so seemingly real that the mind-body acts it out, but it's possible to have a liason between reality consciousness and the memory-self that emerges in moments of delusion to render them neutral. It's like a burst of golden light, warmth, love and home that renders it all moot. Everyone goes down these rabbit holes because everyone bought into the duality experience at birth, even "normal" people with no mental illness. It's just that people with mental illness are more equipped to recognize the contrast.

Everyone I've ever met who healed themselves and has learned to live a grounded, embodied life where they no longer take anything personally with the world, REALIZES THIS. These people have the most fucked up and incredible life stories and now they are just normal people who feel love and bliss but are also not attached to being actionable in the world, acquiring shit, or chasing Samsara for solutions based on misattribution. It's amazing. They're not trying to "get" anything. There's nothing to get so stop fucking trying. It's all right here, right now.

Excellent post. Well articulated and I agree with a lot of your points. I'm not disagreeing with anything you said. I just wanted to say that a mix of CBT, mindfulness and spirituality have done wonders for my mental state. These three elements have combined to allow me to be able to reframe my thoughts and not get caught up and emotionally attached to negative emotions.

 

[damsel1985]

My dalliances with the divine relate to having too much time on my hands, initially. But when I honour these entities, I get better mojo from the universe so to speak. Strange, but true. Got a few different entities in motion for the minute. It's hard to really amount it to just the one creator but I have been personally acquainted with almost every entity going and have to say they all have their merit. Maybe I hold a soft spot for gospel, if anything.

my affectation for the father & the son can be interpreted variously. As for the holy ghost, this too is something that gets topical.

 

[Foreigner]

Excellent post. Well articulated and I agree with a lot of your points. I'm not disagreeing with anything you said. I just wanted to say that a mix of CBT, mindfulness and spirituality have done wonders for my mental state. These three elements have combined to allow me to be able to reframe my thoughts and not get caught up and emotionally attached to negative emotions.

CBT, mindfulness and so-called spiritual practices seem to help people if their trauma came later, after the initial duality split and the formation of personality. If people suffer infant trauma younger than 18 months, then the trauma can also be wound up in their initial duality split, and no therapy will help. For those people, they have to recognize the one true reality, which is the origin point of every human, and then reverse engineer the entire thing back to the very beginning.

You see, every born human has the duality split. It happens to all of us. It's a necessary part of being a physical embodiment. In that sense, we are all delusional. For most people without trauma, this delusional life looks like... 'I'm going to do all the things that I think will make me happy, like go to school, get a job, get married, maybe do some drugs and party along the way, have kids, retire" etc. Whether they know it or not, they are trying to reunite with their point of origin through the human activities that create resonance for them. The resonance is a sign that non-duality is the real thing going on... it's ever present and a non-happening, non-event. It feels blissful, at home, it's all you could ever want. However, people misattribute resonant reality with the external objects around them that "make them feel this way". So they chase the objects and activities that "give them" the feeling. Meanwhile, the resonance points to the only thing that's real. This misattribution is the root of all never-ending human desire.

But when someone also has early infantile trauma, they are also living in a nightmare rabbit hole where duality is informed by the holographic memory of abuse. Imagine entering the world as pure, unlimited conscious awareness that has no concept of a separate "me/I". This is all of us in the beginning. We are just clear, unclouded awareness. Then, through pure stimulus, duality begins to form. There is something here, and something over there; you are you, and I am me. Then you're given a name, and subsequent stories about "who you are", and the narrative layers commence. This plus experience informs the mind-body identity complex. This is how it normally proceeds for most people.

Now imagine that during this time, the infant is neglected during a time when they can't regulate their own nervous system or emotions, or they are even beaten. When infants cry, they have to be picked up and held because they need the parent's nervous system to regulate their own. Babies can't do this. Instead they will keep crying until the suffering is so extreme that they dissociate into mind (later becoming intellectual types) or the ether (later becoming the psychic types). Both are states of disembodiment. The illusion of duality will form with abuse intertwined with it. This pre-dates the mind-body identity complex and personality. It's why people with this kind of trauma can't do talk therapy; because when you're talking, it's the personality talking, and babies less than 1 year old don't have that. The personality-ego is trying to work with something that pre-dates its very existence. The same is true with somatic therapy. People think they can trigger the body to release this stuff, but it also doesn't work.

So if CBT works for you, it means your trauma happened after the personality-ego identity complex formed. It means that something happened "to you" and this "you" has a memory of it which it can process by adding another story and then looking for proof that the new story is valid. For pre-duality trauma, it didn't happen to "a you", it happened while pure consciousness was artificially splitting into duality. To heal it, you have to go pre-duality, which is present awareness, which is actually the only reality underneath Samsara, which is the reality of this very present moment.