MDMA - today - and Occam's Razor

[Jabberwocky]

FACT - access to research chemicals is widespread
FACT - many research chemicals mimic MDMA effects, sometimes even to an experienced user
FACT - many substituted cathinones and piperazines will mimic MDMA effects
FACT - the majority of reagent tests will not show the presence of piperazines, if an MDXX substance is also present
FACT - even at 200 mg the r-isomer of MDMA barely caused a +1, and would not be confused with racemic MDMA
FACT - a small difference in dose of racemic MDMA will cause vastly different effects
FACT - mg/kg dose of MDMA is the determinant for effects ( at .5 mg/kg the effects are done at 4 hours from admin - at 1.5 mg/kg the effects last until 6-8 hours post admin)
FACT - MDMA has non-linear pharmacokinetics (higher dose increases half-life in a non-linear manner)
FACT - tolerance to MDXX substances will cause vastly different effects


If a substance thought to be MDMA (but has not been verified by GC/MS) produces sub-nominal effects/ effects other than expected:

it is much more likely that the substance is

a: NOT MDMA

or-

b: a low dose of MDMA

, than it is likely that there is some fantastical combination of chemical synthesis that has resulted in bad (r-isomer only) MDMA.

 

[Black]

amen brother.

i find it really surprising that so many bluelighters, even bluelighters with some chemical background, believe in such an improbable hypothesis, when it can all be explained by the factors you list above. until we see some analytical evidence, i see the "different entantiomer ratio" hypothesis as unfounded speculation.

 

[Clocktower]

I'm on board with this.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

nobody is suggesting that its R isomer only in the other thread. They are suggesting its a non 50 50 ratio of r to S. They are talking about mdma which tests as pure mdma via LCMS which means there are no other active compounds besides mdma present....you have not read the other thread at all since you don't realize this....you're arguing about a bunch of shit you don't understand and havn't even bothered to read the entire other thread.

you don't even understand in which step of the synthesis the other thread is addressing....you don't understand what an LCMS is. you're way over your head man.

 

[Jabberwocky]

nobody is suggesting that its R isomer only in the other thread. They are suggesting its a non 50 50 ratio of r to S. They are talking about mdma which tests as pure mdma via LCMS which means there are no other active compounds besides mdma present....

1. nobody has presented LCMS WITH mg per pill -- link to a bona-fide result

2. The synthesis everybody is talking about is from PMK-glycidate -- which when converted back to PMK (MDP2P) -- is exactly the same as MDP2P from safrole

3. isomer specific processes all start DOWNSTREAM from PMK (MDP2P) see 4

4. isomer specific catalysts and processes certainly exist -- r-(b*****)-methylamine reacted with MDP2P would create an R,R base after reduction with Raney nickel

that base is then catalytically reduced providing r-MDA, then reduced again with L*H in T*F giving you r-MDMA -- (this step is what you could/can use to reduce ps-eph to meth -- but I don't know what I'm talking about #) -- yep batteries and fertilizer

#yeah I left an intermediate step out re: meth, and it's actually hydrogenation performed by the LAH -- cause full synths are not allowed

but the batteries and fertilizer is reduction (funny how the initials of 2 compounds can be the same - but the compounds are drastically different)

But nobody would do that if they were trying to make MDMA -- because the yields suck and it has extra steps requiring more time and money.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

1. nobody has presented LCMS WITH mg per pill -- link to a bona-fide result

2. The synthesis everybody is talking about is from PMK-glycidate -- which when converted back to PMK (MDP2P) -- is exactly the same as MDP2P from safrole

3. isomer specific processes all start DOWNSTREAM from PMK (MDP2P) see 4

4. isomer specific catalysts and processes certainly exist -- r-(b*****)-methylamine reacted with MDP2P would create an R,R base after reduction with Raney nickel

that base is then catalytically reduced providing r-MDA, then reduced again with L*H in T*F giving you r-MDMA -- (this step is what you could/can use to reduce ps-eph to meth -- but I don't know what I'm talking about #) -- yep batteries and fertilizer

#yeah I left an intermediate step out re: meth, and it's actually hydrogenation performed by the LAH -- cause full synths are not allowed

but the batteries and fertilizer is reduction (funny how the initials of 2 compounds can be the same - but the compounds are drastically different)

But nobody would do that if they were trying to make MDMA -- because the yields suck and it has extra steps requiring more time and money.

1. the guy that started that thread le junk stated that he had both samples of mdma tested via GCMS and they both showed ONLY mdma...if you had read the thread you would know that

2. There is more to a chemical reaction that what the starting material is (mdp2p -> mdma)....impurities in the starting material can have an effect on the reaction. Nobody that does process scale chemistry does purifications on intermediates. purifying intermediates is avoided at all costs during a kilogram + scale synthesis...if you knew anything beyond your undergrad o-chem text book you would know this.

To state that a process scale synthesis would begin an intermediate step with ass pure mdp2p is super naive of you...they would avoid having to purify in every single way they could....such as do the reductive amination on the crude/impure mdp2p

.

 

[Jabberwocky]

1. the guy that started that thread le junk stated that he had both samples of mdma tested via GCMS and they both showed ONLY mdma...if you had read the thread you would know that

2. There is more to a chemical reaction that what the starting material is (mdp2p -> mdma)....impurities in the starting material can have an effect on the reaction. Nobody that does process scale chemistry does purifications on intermediates. purifying intermediates is avoided at all costs during a kilogram + scale synthesis...if you knew anything beyond your undergrad o-chem text book you would know this.

To state that a process scale synthesis would begin an intermediate step with ass pure mdp2p is super naive of you...they would avoid having to purify in every single way they could....such as do the reductive amination on the crude/impure mdp2p

.

1. Absent the lab report I call bullshit. Especially considering Le Junk stated 10-15 minutes for the high to take effect -- that ain't MDMA.

2. decanting the liquid ketone, and filtering with any reasonable filter would remove 95-99% of unreacted carboxylate and catalyst

3. You are reaching -- and don't have any actual proposed compounds -- it's chemistry -- there are only so many metal catalysts that won't explosively end the synth -- and only so many epoxide or carboxylate compound that could be formed

== man up and propose an actual set of reactions that result in a compound that exerts action on chiral ratios

 

[blueberries]

Why is everyone talking about the R-MDMA instead of the R-MDA?!

It is /confirmed/ several times over that R-MDA is a lot more potent than the L-iso, it's //faaaar// better pharmacologically than the L; yes it's more expensive but would you rather;
a) Have a life defining experience on a very overlooked and rare compound and pay £50 for 10ish doses or;
b) Get 6ish doses of a very well known, very used, broken down husk of a compound that was blasted away by just about every empathogen at the start of the RC days for about £20, saving you your precious £30 but losing the opportunity to try a recently exorcised legend?

Up to you...