MDMA & regular 5-HTP use

[NotACop420]

I've seen many references to people taking 5-HTP after taking MDMA and it having positive affects/helps with the come down. I don't know/haven't read about daily 5-HTP use as a treatment for depression but that is part of what my question here is about.
If someone is taking 5-HTP on a nightly basis and its successfully suppressing depression symptoms, if they want to enjoy MDMA, how does that work?
Would a daily usage of the 5-HTP dampen or decrease the affects of the MDMA?
Would stopping the doses of 5-HTP a few days prior to taking the MDMA be a good idea?
Hoping to get some help here, thanks.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

There is an anecdotal report of a combo of MDMA and 5-HTP causing serotonin syndrome so I would space things out by a day or so, but studies have shown 5-HTP (also administered with what's called a "decarboxylase inhibitor" that will essentially prevent the breakdown of 5-HTP in the blood and give it a better chance of being absorbed into the brain) does reduce damage to serotonin axons (the branches of the brain cells) if the 5-HTP is given within a certain time frame, which appears to be about a week. I personally would take 5-HTP+ECGC a couple hours after the comedown or right before trying to sleep. This would be safe and health. Mind you MDMA is not without risk.

The study used a different decarboxylase inhibitor but what is typically used for these purposes is a substance called ECGC which is a green tea extract, it will help your brain absorb serotonin.

I would take 50mg twice a day for depression but for post MDMA therapy I would take 100mg 2 times a day or 50mg 4 times a day with a couple hundred milligrams ECGC for a couple days straight then back down to the depression dose of around 50mg a day. I don't think I would take 5-HTP for decades because there is risk of cardiac fibrosis and valvular heart disease associated with excess peripheral serotonin. I wouldn't worry about taking 5-HTP for a couple years though. Just not something you want to take in high doses for 10-20 years.

Personally I don't think people with depression and related serotonin problems should experiment with MDMA. It can really do harm to a sensitive brain. You might be better off doing 30 minutes of cardio a couple times a week, it creates new serotonin cells in a very key area of the brain and is a natural antidepressant. I highly recommend regular cardio for long term health and happiness.

Best of luck, any questions are welcome. As I said, my advice would be stay away from MDMA if you have depression. Smoke a joint or take some mushrooms instead Mushrooms are very safe although somewhat uncomfortable in the short term if you dose high. But the euphoria of MDMA isn't without a cost for many people.

 

[NotACop420]

"There is an anecdotal report of a combo of MDMA and 5-HTP causing serotonin syndrome so I would space things out by a day or so"
Exactly how much of a possibility is this?
Up until now I was worried mostly about diminishing the desired affects of the MDMA because if daily dishes of 5-HTP but I'm now much more concerned about the possibility of doing serious damage when adding MDMA to your system when it already has 5-HTP in it. Is there a reasonable concern and if so, is one day off the 5-HTP enough of a precaution? Should I be stopping the dosages a few days in advance and then starting then again when I want to sleep after rolling?

 

[NotACop420]

I would take 50mg twice a day for depression but for post MDMA therapy I would take 100mg 2 times a day or 50mg 4 times a day with a couple hundred milligrams ECGC for a couple days straight then back down to the depression dose of around 50mg a day.

I kind of lost track of which thing at which dosage you are suggesting..... The suggested dose of 5-HTP that I've seen many places is 100mg before bed. This is what has been working for a few weeks.... Really really well actually.
My plan actually was to take that same amount after the next time I roll. Think this is a good idea?
Also is the green tea extract super important?

 

[DrTechno]

5HTP can diminish the effects of MDMA because it can downregulate some serotonin receptors as some studies have showed. In my opinion and as far as research I have read, if you can handle one dose of SSRIs without any negetive effects which I think most people can, it's better to take that 3 - 6hrs after rolling. And maybe 100mg 5htp next day 1hr before sleeping just in case.

From some studies, unlike popular belief, MDMA doesn't just magically deplete all your serotonin unless you take gigantic or repeated doses. Instead, it has a bi-phasic depleting. First depletion when coming down, then serotonin levels return to clinical levels in around 24hrs, then there is a second, longer, serotonin depletion, most probably from toxic metabolites entering throug the SERTs and causing something. SSRIs in some of these studies found that they prevented this longer second phase of serotonin depletion, because, they block the SERTs most probably(that's what their function is)

From personal experience, one dose of escitalopram 4-6hrs into the roll, has prevented my comedowns or most of it, even after a huge binge. (of course, binges are never recommended and spacing out is always ideal)

 

[NotACop420]

[QUOTE/]

From some studies, unlike popular belief, MDMA doesn't just magically deplete all your serotonin unless you take gigantic or repeated doses. Instead, it has a bi-phasic depleting. First depletion when coming down, then serotonin levels return to clinical levels in around 24hrs, then there is a second, longer, serotonin depletion, most probably from toxic metabolites entering throug the SERTs and causing something. SSRIs in some of these studies found that they prevented this longer second phase of serotonin depletion, because, they block the SERTs most probably(that's what their function is)

From personal experience, one dose of escitalopram 4-6hrs into the roll, has prevented my comedowns or most of it, even after a huge binge. (of course, binges are never recommended and spacing out is always ideal)[/QUOTE]

I understand what your saying about using the SSRI to help with the secondary long-term come down. However, alternatively could one return to a nightly dosage of 5-HTP following the night of rolling in hopes to suppress the negative come down feelings? It's worth noting that, having experienced the longer come down of MDMa before, personally the negative feelings, while intense, are not unbearable. besides that stories I've heard since lexapro became a thing have been largely negative. I guess largely negative reviews of a drug are probably louder than successful uses of it with mk without negative symptoms though...
Is there an alternative SSRI you would suggest? are there any over the counter alternatives?

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

The context of that anecdotal report was in wild circumstances and I think there's like a 1% chance of SS in the context of responsible lower dose use of both substances, but if you took it on the comedown (which is where you're supposed to take the 5-HtP for max benefit) then you'll be just fine. So I would skip it the day of the roll until you're on the comedown.

I think post roll 5-HTP dosage should be around 200-300mg but spread out a bit if it's not a big deal because the 5-HtP gets broken down in the bloodstream. ECGC isn't super important though but does keep it alive longer in the blood stream so it's absorbed into the brain better. Depression dose for 5-HtP should be around 50-100mg.

There isn't much else you can take besides 5-HTP or an ssri (which aren't supposed to be combo'd for fear of serotonin syndrome) to reduce damage and the comedown.

SSRIs that have high affinity for the serotonin transporter and NOT the norepinephrine transporter are what you want, lexapro is Citalopram and it will work very well, it has very high affinity for just serotonin.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

Taking 5-HTP steadily in the many weeks after MDMA is pretty important though. Your brain can't make serotonin on its own very well for many weeks after MDMA use. I think the cutoff after which 5-HTP didn't show much protective benefit after MDMA was like 1 week or something.