MDMA Pharmacology Notes

[sekio]

While this member is gone I feel the need to once again rebuttal. Yes ROA’s do effect metabolite production, if not we wouldn’t see a major increase of norketamine with oral that then decreases with each route that has increased BA.

Different ROAs will produce different amounts of metabolites, but not different metabolites entirely. So for instance, at least some norketamine is found in any user of ketamine regardless of route of admin. Oral use in general produces the highest proportion of metabolites because any orally consumed drugs must pass the liver before entering the bloodstream.

I also never argued rectal wasn’t a good ROA, but depending on how far the drug is inserted will change the pharmacology, pushed too far it’s the same as taking it orally.

The human rectum is between 18 and 20 centimetres long.
You would literally have to push the dose in several metres deep, probably with an endoscope, before reaching the small intestine (which is where orally consumed drugs are absorbed). Even pushing past the rectum would leave you in the sigmoid colon, which, just like the rectum, also has a large surface area with dense blood vessels along the walls.

And from what I know about a lot of men, they'd get uncomfortable inserting a gloved finger a few centimetres deep. And you're implying drug users use implements that would make a seasoned gay man do a double take, on a regular basis, to put drugs up there?

I reccommend using a 5 or 10mL oral syringe, plenty of lube, and either a drug dissolved in water, or even just a crushed pill (or pills) suspended in water with vigorous shaking, then insert no more than 2-4cm (you just need to pass the internal sphincter), squirt the liquid inside, and remove the syringe slowly and gently. If done with a limited amount of water (10mL max, 2-4mL best), leakage is unlikely, and usually absorbtion is rapid and complete. Any pill binders present will simply be expelled with your next bowel movement and are unlikely to be noticeable or irritating.

Unless you are either about to have a bowel movement, or literally just had one, the syringe is unlikely to encounter feces, nor should there be any interference (even if some is present). In general the rectum is kept empty until the sigmoid colon begins to empty, preceding "poopy time", and upon evacuation, is most often entirely free of stragglers. And unless the plugging solution is somehow literally injected into a log of shit, usually feces is dense enough that the drug solution will not be absorbed.

Syringe can either be discarded, or washed well with soapy water and marked "for plugging use only" and reused many times. Do not share between individuals.

If done gently and carefully, even repeated use will not cause noticeable damage or irritation.

 

[cosmosmariner]

While this member is gone I feel the need to once again rebuttal. Yes ROA’s do effect metabolite production, if not we wouldn’t see a major increase of norketamine with oral that then decreases with each route that has increased BA.

I also never argued rectal wasn’t a good ROA, but depending on how far the drug is inserted will change the pharmacology, pushed too far it’s the same as taking it orally.


Now the reason I’m here.. @cosmosmariner im trying DHEA again. This time 12.5mg sometimes 25, and won’t stop until the day of… I’m not gonna take it on the actual days of rolling. Just wanted to let you know

It’ll be 4wks on like last time intended to do this..

-GC

Keep us posted, GC

Cos

 

[G_Chem]

Different ROAs will produce different amounts of metabolites, but not different metabolites entirely. So for instance, at least some norketamine is found in any user of ketamine regardless of route of admin. Oral use in general produces the highest proportion of metabolites because any orally consumed drugs must pass the liver before entering the bloodstream.


The human rectum is between 18 and 20 centimetres long.
You would literally have to push the dose in several metres deep, probably with an endoscope, before reaching the small intestine (which is where orally consumed drugs are absorbed). Even pushing past the rectum would leave you in the sigmoid colon, which, just like the rectum, also has a large surface area with dense blood vessels along the walls.

And from what I know about a lot of men, they'd get uncomfortable inserting a gloved finger a few centimetres deep. And you're implying drug users use implements that would make a seasoned gay man do a double take, on a regular basis, to put drugs up there?

I reccommend using a 5 or 10mL oral syringe, plenty of lube, and either a drug dissolved in water, or even just a crushed pill (or pills) suspended in water with vigorous shaking, then insert no more than 2-4cm (you just need to pass the internal sphincter), squirt the liquid inside, and remove the syringe slowly and gently. If done with a limited amount of water (10mL max, 2-4mL best), leakage is unlikely, and usually absorbtion is rapid and complete. Any pill binders present will simply be expelled with your next bowel movement and are unlikely to be noticeable or irritating.

Unless you are either about to have a bowel movement, or literally just had one, the syringe is unlikely to encounter feces, nor should there be any interference (even if some is present). In general the rectum is kept empty until the sigmoid colon begins to empty, preceding "poopy time", and upon evacuation, is most often entirely free of stragglers. And unless the plugging solution is somehow literally injected into a log of shit, usually feces is dense enough that the drug solution will not be absorbed.

Syringe can either be discarded, or washed well with soapy water and marked "for plugging use only" and reused many times. Do not share between individuals.

If done gently and carefully, even repeated use will not cause noticeable damage or irritation.

I never once claimed the metabolites differed in profile, but the amounts very much do. Sounds like we agree on that one.

In regards to rectal administration..

“There is some evidence that hepatic first-pass elimination of high clearance drugs is partially avoided after rectal administration, e.g. lignocaine. This can be explained by the rectal venous blood supply: the upper part is connected with the portal system, whereas the lower part is directly connected with the systemic circulation.”

“The rectum can be divided into three parts: the upper, middle, and lower rectum. From the anal verge, these three parts are defined as follows: the lower rectum, 0 to 6 cm; the middle rectum, 7 to 11 cm; and the upper rectum, 12 to 15 cm.”


So as it states here, the blood supply for the lower rectum bypasses the liver and first pass metabolism moreso than a mere 12-15cm in.. I understand that’s someone’s long middle finger or more but why risk it. Certainly no meters like you claim. Also I’ve read this on these very forums regarding this discrepancy of rectal administration.

And finally, myself and others can tell you feces does indeed impact absorption and shit can be hanging out not too far from the anus without feeling the need to go to the bathroom. People on opiates alone can tell you that they experience it every day.

Sekio I’m glad you’re back but please if giving advice actually do the diligence of research first. I feel like you follow behind me naysaying just to naysay.

-GC

 

[sekio]

I understand that’s someone’s long middle finger or more but why risk it.

What kind of freak hands are you looking at? 15cm is 6 inches or so, much more than a long middle finger. My cursory research suggests a more typical length of around 7.5 to 8.5cm in women and a crude estimate of 9.5cm in men.
Most people are not very comfortable with inserting objects any distance into the anus, and are probably not going to insert their entire middle finger, let alone anything almost twice as long. All you need is to insert a suppository or syringe maybe an inch or two (2.5 to maybe 5cm), just past the internal anal sphincter, and that's plenty.
Many drugs are given as suppositories quite successfully and I myself have plugged more than my fair share of almost every drug that it makes sense to plug, and have never had an episode of questionable absorption.
Mind you I usually plug solutions/suspensions of drugs in water and never as whole pills: the rectum does not produce significant amounts of fluids and will not easily break down/dissolve pills. And most suppositories are made of a hard fat base that melts at just below body temperature. I have seen people attempt plugging by simply inserting pills, I'm not surprised that doing so is not as effective.

And finally, myself and others can tell you feces does indeed impact absorption and shit can be hanging out not too far from the anus without feeling the need to go to the bathroom. People on opiates alone can tell you that they experience it every day.

A study suggests that in general only 30% of people have stool present in the rectum, and that can be resolved by, y'know, going to the bathroom first. And IME, administering drugs in small volumes of water will generally not be absorbed by stool.

please if giving advice actually do the diligence of research first

Excuse the pun, but I'm not pulling these statements out of my ass. I personally have had great success plugging substances from BDO to PCP almost every time, and also search PubMed etc on the regular.

That said, if you find it doesn't work for you, I'm interested in your experiences and the method used, and if you don't feel it works well for you, well, I'm not going to force a syringe up your butt. Unless, y'know, you're a pretty lady or you want to pay me to do so.

 

[tiltsteer]

Thanks for this article. I was only able to read the abstract. My favorite sentence was “Subjects like MDMA.” Love that.
teatv apk

download apk

 

[G_Chem]

What kind of freak hands are you looking at? 15cm is 6 inches or so, much more than a long middle finger. My cursory research suggests a more typical length of around 7.5 to 8.5cm in women and a crude estimate of 9.5cm in men.
Most people are not very comfortable with inserting objects any distance into the anus, and are probably not going to insert their entire middle finger, let alone anything almost twice as long. All you need is to insert a suppository or syringe maybe an inch or two (2.5 to maybe 5cm), just past the internal anal sphincter, and that's plenty.
Many drugs are given as suppositories quite successfully and I myself have plugged more than my fair share of almost every drug that it makes sense to plug, and have never had an episode of questionable absorption.
Mind you I usually plug solutions/suspensions of drugs in water and never as whole pills: the rectum does not produce significant amounts of fluids and will not easily break down/dissolve pills. And most suppositories are made of a hard fat base that melts at just below body temperature. I have seen people attempt plugging by simply inserting pills, I'm not surprised that doing so is not as effective.


A study suggests that in general only 30% of people have stool present in the rectum, and that can be resolved by, y'know, going to the bathroom first. And IME, administering drugs in small volumes of water will generally not be absorbed by stool.


Excuse the pun, but I'm not pulling these statements out of my ass. I personally have had great success plugging substances from BDO to PCP almost every time, and also search PubMed etc on the regular.

That said, if you find it doesn't work for you, I'm interested in your experiences and the method used, and if you don't feel it works well for you, well, I'm not going to force a syringe up your butt. Unless, y'know, you're a pretty lady or you want to pay me to do so.

Fair enough, but also most drugs used rectally aren’t inserted as a solid drug. When’s the last time you bought suppositories on the street? Most times drugs are inserted via a syringe in solution. Syringes come in many shapes and sizes.

Also I find it funny that you’re now jumping back on your earlier statement of “there’s never feces in the rectum” to “well 30% but you can just go take a shit..”

Once again, many opiate users and unhealthy people with poor diets have feces in their rectum as we speak that can be easily expelled. If it could, they’d umm take a shit I presume?

So I’m glad you’re finally using Google scholar, now you can alter many of your statements and act like you already said them.

One more thing, if only the lower rectum bypasses first pass, the middle rectum of 7-11cm (~3in) is also best to be avoided. But ya we got 5m to play with according to you so all good right?

-GC

 

[G_Chem]

And while we are on it… Yoi say 30% of the population with feces in their rectum can just go take a shit. Last I checked, people don’t just go shit at will. Once in a great while yes, but usually bowel movements are on a schedule or you get alerts that you need to go. If what you say is true (which obviously it isn’t) then 1/3 the population would be actively holding in feces. Care to continue?

We’ve already gone from 5 meters to a couple inches, and from no feces to 30%. What other “facts” would you like to alter while you are at it?

-GC

 

[sekio]

Most times drugs are inserted via a syringe in solution. Syringes come in many shapes and sizes.

I don't know about you, but I personally never insert the entire syringe while plugging, let alone a 6-inch one.

Also there is a little thing called the anal canal interposed between the anus and rectum giving you another 2-4.5cm, on top of your 6cm or so, that's 8-10.5cm of possible absorption area.

Regardless, there is still sufficient absorbtion via systemic routes:
this review on rectal drug use: In addition, although systemic absorption cannot be completely avoided via rectal administration, limiting the amount of drug that is systemically absorbed is ideal for the treatment of local pathologies. Although a broad approximation, it has been reported that ∼50% of a drug that is absorbed from the rectum will bypass the liver, thus reducing the hepatic first-pass effect (De Boer et al., 1984; Brunton et al., 2018). However, wide variations of bioavailability can occur due to the aforementioned issues.

And you'll have to excuse me for believing basically every physiology text, i.e. the Merck Manual:
Ordinarily, the rectum is empty because stool is stored higher in the descending colon. Eventually, the descending colon becomes full, and stool passes into the rectum, causing an urge to move the bowels (defecate).

Last I checked, people don’t just go shit at will.

Ordinarily, your rectum filling is what sends the message that you have to shit. And if you have a significant quantity of feces in your rectum you will probably find it's possible to shit anyway. (If there is feces in the rectum, that does not necessarily mean it's so full that it's all the way down to the very end.)

This is frankly a stupid argument to be having. Are you really making the argument that rectal administration, which "[has] been administered since before recorded
history, using instruments ranging from cow horns and hollowed out bamboo
shoots to metal syringes to inject laxatives, herbs, opium, turpentine, tobacco,
oxygen and noxious chemicals"[ref] and is still used to deliver drugs to this very day, is somehow ineffective in 1/3 of people because of poo? Why does the evidence not show this? Why do people use bisacodyl suppositories (against the rectum wall) to help in constipation?

Also, for what it's worth, I have plugged many, many different drugs, too many times to count. Almost always as a solution in between 1 and 5mL of water, inserted a few centimetres at most (just past internal anal sphincter). I have never had a situation where there was significant amounts of feces or the syringe somehow injected into a poo. And I have plugged while using opioids too. (Hell, I manage to plug with a spinal injury, that literally makes me unable to empty my bowel at will or even sense how full it is.)

Have you had problems plugging? How long have you been plugging for?