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MDMA cures my essential tremor (while rolling)? Thoughts?

Dropit

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Nov 16, 2014
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I have been diagnosed with essential tremor (mostly in the hands) by a neurologist, and have been prescribed propranolol (a beta blocker) to treat it, although it does nothing for me. I have noticed that MDMA completely relieves my tremors, and have been doing a fair amount of research on neurotransmitters, especially serotonin to try and derive what it is that I am lacking, and potentially find some sort of remedy for my case. I have done research on serotonin's effect on muscle contraction, as well as trials on giving 5-HTP to those with essential tremor. Now, I am in Australia, so 5-HTP is illegal here (AFAIK), so unfortunately I cannot try it.

I'm aware other neurotransmitters play roles in muscle coordination, but I have used (not abused) a spectrum of substances, none of which relieve my symptoms. MDMA being (mostly) a serotonin agonist, I suspect serotonin may play a huge role in my condition, and not something like dopamine as dopamine-orientated (for a lack of a better term) substances don't alleviate my symptoms (they actually noticeably worsen with things like weed or heroin).

What I am after is: am I on the right track? Does MDMA perhaps have another role that I am seemingly unaware of that is treating my condition? Any ideas on how I might boost serotonin such that my symptoms may be relieved with respect to my health, if lack of serotonin is what is responsible?

I'm not a doctor or a chemist, just an enthusiast, so go easy. Thanks, and apologies if this isn't the correct section. :)
Some notes that may be helpful: I'm young (19, male), no known inheritance of condition, and is not drug-induced, I have had it all my life, but it is now becoming more pronounced. I'm open to any questions.
 
https://rarediseases.org/rare-diseases/general-myoclonus/

Some studies have shown that doses of 5-hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP), a building block of serotonin, leads to improvement in patients with some types of myoclonus. However, other studies indicate that this therapy is not effective in all people with myoclonus and may even cause the jerks and twitches to worsen in some affected individuals.

I've read a LOT about this, as it was one of the synthoms that I had/have
 
Hi there! MDMA does release a lot of dopamine as well so if I were in your position I would be wondering about dopamine increases helping with the tremors, the other substances just don't have high enough dopamine affinity to say for sure that it isn't dopamine (or a combination of dopamine and serotonin) that's helping.

Serotonin is essentially a modulator and controller of dopamine(and most other neurotransmitters).
All of the dopamine release from MDMA is through serotonin (5-HT2A/5-HT2B) so it's kind of a strange one, compared to say Ritalin or cocaine that are more dopamine transporter related. Adderall would be a little fairer to say general dopamine wasn't the cause of the resolution of tremors me thinks, has adderall done nothing as well?

If it is a serotonin deficiency related tremor then theoretically SSRIs should help. Citalopram would be the one I would try, it has the highest affinity for just the SERT, feign depression if you have to haha. But the SSRIs have all found to be 5-HT2B agonists, which is the same as MDMA, mdma is a 5-HT2B agonist as well. Neither of these drugs work workout 5-HT2B

How do you react to Benadryl? Dextromethorphan?
GABA drugs such as Xanax?
Serotonin antagonists such as Trazadone?
Take care :)

Edit: you could try L-tryptophan/bananas but is 5-HTP not an option to order online?
 
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http://ecstasy.org/info/parkinsons.html

The article above describes a person who suffered from Parkinson's and L-DOPA induced dyskinesia. MDMA seemed to alleviate symptoms of both disorders. Tremors seem very similar to L-DOPA induced dyskinesia, and if so your situation would agree with the one described in the article. Nevertheless using MDMA to treat essential tremor would not be sustainable and you would need a more sustainable drug. The suggestions above seem really good. Have you tried memantine? I would think gabaergics, especially benzodiazepines, would work quite effectively out of them all though.
 
https://rarediseases.org/rare-diseases/general-myoclonus/



I've read a LOT about this, as it was one of the synthoms that I had/have

Interesting, thanks for sharing. I'll be looking more into this.

Hi there! MDMA does release a lot of dopamine as well so if I were in your position I would be wondering about dopamine increases helping with the tremors, the other substances just don't have high enough dopamine affinity to say for sure that it isn't dopamine (or a combination of dopamine and serotonin) that's helping.

Serotonin is essentially a modulator and controller of dopamine(and most other neurotransmitters).
All of the dopamine release from MDMA is through serotonin (5-HT2A/5-HT2B) so it's kind of a strange one, compared to say Ritalin or cocaine that are more dopamine transporter related. Adderall would be a little fairer to say general dopamine wasn't the cause of the resolution of tremors me thinks, has adderall done nothing as well?

If it is a serotonin deficiency related tremor then theoretically SSRIs should help. Citalopram would be the one I would try, it has the highest affinity for just the SERT, feign depression if you have to haha. But the SSRIs have all found to be 5-HT2B agonists, which is the same as MDMA, mdma is a 5-HT2B agonist as well. Neither of these drugs work workout 5-HT2B

How do you react to Benadryl? Dextromethorphan?
GABA drugs such as Xanax?
Serotonin antagonists such as Trazadone?
Take care :)

Edit: you could try L-tryptophan/bananas but is 5-HTP not an option to order online?

Wow! Thanks a lot. I was unaware that there was such a significant impact on dopamine in comparison with MDMA to other substances. A lot of interesting information indeed. :)

The reason I previously concluded dopamine wasn't affecting it is because I have done Ritalin, Dexamphetamine, Cocaine, and Methamphetamine. Dexamphetamine and Cocaine considerably worsen my tremors, though I have only taken up to 10mg of Dexamphetamine at once (I experience a fair amount of vasoconstriction and my heart beats quite hard, so I'm reluctant to go further. Plus, I like my brain :p). Ritalin appeared to not effect my tremors as much (max dosage of 20mg), but also didn't seem to improve them. Methamphetamine, I honestly have no idea. I've tried it twice (50mg, then 70mg), and I was enjoying the high and being active too much to even acknowledge my tremors. Given that I didn't even take notice, there's a chance my tremors were non-existent (or just not any worse, which is just as surprising -- I would surely notice it if it were considerably worse). I have no experience with Adderall, but it's 75% d-amphetamine anyway, right? I imagine it would be the same outcome.

I've used Benadryl, but only to potentiate opiates (wasn't exactly looking for tremors), so around 30-40mL (if I recall correctly). Very interesting, I wouldn't have thought Benadryl could be helpful. I still have some, and am more than happy to give a try!
I have never tried Dextromethorphan, never really seemed worth the high. Again, happy to try if you think there is a chance it could benefit me.

As for GABA drugs, I'm not too sure. I haven't had a chance to get real Xanax (only blotters, and I think they were severely under-dosed) I do have experience with the following benzos: Diazepam, Clonazepam, and Clonazolam.
All of which do relieve my tremors to an extent (they are still noticeable and bother me), but honestly I feel that this is more due to being calmer / reduced anxiety, but I don't know much about how they actually work, so perhaps something like that could benefit me.

I haven't tried any SSRIs or Trazadone, though I was prescribed Amitriptyline for migraine years ago. I heard bad things about SSRIs, so I never took it. However, I'm open to it if it might help me determine what it is I'm lacking and if it is safe for me to do so.

Honestly, thanks again, you've been more thorough than any doctor I've seen. I wasn't shown such a range of opportunities, just given useless (for me) beta blockers. I suspect they're reluctant to trial me on a benzo, given my age, which is justifiable.

EDIT: How beneficial do you think something like 5-HTP might be? I'll try it even if it's a small chance, but I would probably go with the more likely options first. :)

http://ecstasy.org/info/parkinsons.html

The article above describes a person who suffered from Parkinson's and L-DOPA induced dyskinesia. MDMA seemed to alleviate symptoms of both disorders. Tremors seem very similar to L-DOPA induced dyskinesia, and if so your situation would agree with the one described in the article. Nevertheless using MDMA to treat essential tremor would not be sustainable and you would need a more sustainable drug. The suggestions above seem really good. Have you tried memantine? I would think gabaergics, especially benzodiazepines, would work quite effectively out of them all though.

I'm going to check out this article, thanks for sharing! Don't worry, I'm definitely not using MDMA to treat my condition, that would end disastrously. I'm aware of its neurotoxicity.

http://www.bulknutrients.com.au/products/5-htp-capsules.html :)

I honestly wouldn't expect it to do anything regarding your tremors, but it's not illegal and I doubt it'd hurt giving it a try anyway.

Well, this is surprising. I've been reading, and many have stated it's illegal (in some states). I'll do a bit more research for my state (NSW) and see if I can just get it shipped from there. Thanks a lot!
 
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I think finding some Dextromethorphan to try would be interesting and it won't hurt you. Some of these substances such as Benadryl I would almost expect to make it worse but if it does make it worse that will be something to point us in the right direction. Benadryl/diphenhydramine is an anticholinergic, that is it shuts down acetylcholine, the molecule responsible for moving all of our muscles. MDMA has effects on acetylcholine as well, and I believe beta blockers are supposed to have down stream effects but I'll have to check my facts on those latter two thoughts of mine.

I would also be curious to see how you do on a classic serotonergic like mushrooms, these effects are all mediated through the same kind of serotonin as MDMA. In the category of something that would likely make it worse I would probably put adrenaline-ish substances like amphetamines, that they didn't help pushes it away from dopamine I believe. Going along those lines I theorize Clonidine would help, this is a medication that will reduce adrenaline. Dextromethorphan is another compound that will reduce some of your excitability, not by agonizing and activating an inhibitory brain cell like GABA but by antagonizing an excitable brain cell such as glutamate, unfortunately there are many kinds of glutamate and you can only antagonize a subtype of glutamate called NMDA with DXM.

The closest you could get (not that there aren't AMPA/global glutamate antagonists out there, just don't think you could get it prescribed because they are for epilepsy) to shutting down most of your excitability is with those benzo/GABA drugs you mentioned like clonazepam, and also Gabapentin would be a good way to shut down excitatory synapses but once again it's for seizures and such and you probably couldn't get it.

So I would try the DXM, diphenhydramine, see if you can't get hold of some mushrooms, see if you can't swap out your beta blocker for Clonidine, and also have you tried opiates ever? Amitryptiline has affinity for a lot of different things, you could try it and I would just expect some possibly messed up sleep cycles but unfortunately the beauty of something like Citalopram is its very effective at targeting just serotonin so we know what's helping or not helping. 5-HTP is worth a shot and won't hurt (as long as you don't mix it with any serotonergics) except some for some slightly possibly anxiety/restlessness, if it's easy to order I would try it. Would also come in handy if you do MDMA again (which I think you understand is essentially a bad drug) because 5-HTP given after a roll reduces serotonin neurotoxicity.

If you have any other neurological type problems (you mentioned migraines) I would be curious to know some of them if you don't mind sharing. The hand is a complex piece of equipment and essentially it requires a lot of brain space to run it, I believe this is why tremor is most common in the hands. An amazing amount of brain space is dedicated just to our handy opposable thumb and index fingers. I do wonder what's going on in the circuits that run your hands... If it was a serotonin circuit deficiency of the kind that MDMA helped I believe something like mushrooms would help as well, classic psychedelics work through agonizing 5-HT2A/glutamate. Something like Mirtazapine or Trazadone would work the opposite way, shutting down 5-HT2A.

Best of luck to you, feel free to PM me anytime :) Toodles!
 
Interesting stuff, seriously. You've given me a lot to consider/try. Again, thank you, I appreciate all the effort you've put in.
Funnily enough, I am sitting on some psilocybin (I have yet to try any mushroom), waiting for the right time. I'm currently going through exam period at university, so I can't be too much of a guinea pig until a week's time haha. I'm actually so excited just to see how my tremors react to it. I actually did some research after I read your post, and quite a few people have had their tremors completely relieved while tripping (exciting!).

There are quite a few specific things that may or may not be beneficial to determining the issue that I would like to mention.
Firstly, LSD makes my tremors worse. To my understanding, it works similarly to mushrooms in that it 'mimics' (in the sense that it is mistaken by the brain) serotonin and also agonises 5-HT2A. However, LSD is quite stimulating, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's just because of that. I'm never 'relaxed' on LSD, though apparently some people are. Thoughts on this?

Other psychedelics I have experience with is 2C-E (three times: once intranasal, twice oral) and 2C-I (once, oral), both of which made them worse (though 2C-I was incredibly physically stimulating, so no surprise). The reason I point this out is because whenever I have smoked weed in conjunction with MDMA or 2C-E, during the comedown, I am at my absolute worst, and it's not just in my hands, my legs are shaking off and on and feel extremely weak (it is quite a mission to even walk), as well as the rest of my body. This happened during the peek of 2C-E also, but I have only ever noticed this happening with weed in conjunction (this includes MDMA). My first time with 2C-E (intranasal) was nowhere near as intense as oral, and I didn't smoke weed that first time: no convulsions. I'm not sure what part weed plays in this, or if it's just a coincidence that I happen to be ingesting both weed and some other substance that alone is causing the convulsions, and just didn't happen those times, which I suppose is entirely possible.
I also get a lot of twitches after smoking weed, though research says this is pretty normal for some, especially when you're really high, but it doesn't take too much weed for it to happen to me, and I believe I get it worse than most, but I can see it as just working with the tremors, hence making it noticeably worse.

I'll buy some DXM to try. I do have diphenhydramine currently (non-drowsy, double mucus relief, if it makes any difference -- would the drowsy version be more beneficial for testing? I imagine not, since we're talking about the active ingredient here.) I'm ordering some 5-HTP right after this post to try. :)
Clonidine and Citalopram seem interesting. I might be able to try them if all else fails (beginning with Clonidine perhaps), anything that potentially solves/determines the issue is worth a try. It seems very similar to Propranolol in terms of treating hypertension, but Clonidine is also used for ADHD? Interesting. I'm a little curious, how might it be more effective in comparison to Propranolol?

I do have experience with opiates: oxycodone and heroin. I'm pretty certain my tremors worsen, but it can be difficult to pay attention to things like tremors while under the influence. I could try and see how I react, just to be sure of the result.

I'm happy to share anything if it means I can potentially be rid of these tremors. I have no other neurological type problems apart from migraines and tremors, as far as I'm aware. I have had a sleep-deprived electrocardiogram, to determine why I was getting the awful pain in my head. I couldn't sleep during the test, but they said it didn't matter too much. They said it was normal. I'm unsure what information it could lead to apart from showing that I don't experience seizures. It ended up being formally diagnosed as a recurring icepick migraine.

Now, I am unsure of the relevancy, so I'm just going to dish out some other medical facts that might be helpful.
Firstly, there is quite a bit of mental illness on both sides of my family tree, and also my immediate family. My mother has bipolar, along with a plethora of other things (Addison's disease, leukaemia, and a lot of other things I'm not too sure of). Both of my siblings (twin males) have Asbergers (my only siblings), one also has very mild Cerebral Palsy. On my father's side, there is history of mental illness and heart disease, but I'm unsure of the specifics. Though, I don't believe my father himself suffers from mental illness.
I have always been curious about whether I have Asbergers or anything of the sort given my history. I can relate to some symptoms that I have read (but perhaps that's just my personality), but a lot of the autistic traits I see in most such as lack of motivation and being easily distracted isn't me, I'm quite focused and motivated in general. I am surrounded by four people with forms of autism (two friends), and I see similarities between them that I don't think I have (things like sub-genres in music, even). Everyone is different, though.
Moving on, I've always had a hard time getting to sleep (once I'm asleep, I'm fine), so I would say perhaps insomnia could be included. Not overly interesting.
However, I do have what I've been told is quite a rare condition: "monocular vertical diplopia," says a neuro-ophthalmologist, and there is no explanation for it. Eyes are supposedly fine, as is my brain. I noticed this when I began experiencing migraines for the first time (mid-2012). It still persists and has not gotten any better, and the doctors completely disregarded it. I see a transparent version of the 'object' above it. For example, white lines on the road have a hovering line above it (as if it's floating on air). I don't know if I've always had it and just not noticed, because it doesn't bother me really, it's mild, but not overly subtle.

The reason I haven't moved this to PM yet is because it may be beneficial for someone with the same problem, but I'm happy to move it over there if it's more convenient. I could always append to this thread later when/if the issue is solved. I'll definitely keep you updated with what I have tried and how I have reacted, if you like and still hold interest. :)

I apologise if this is a hassle to read, I'm trying to make it easier for the both of us by being as explicit as I can.
Thanks again! Feel free to ask me anything.
 
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