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MDMA and MS?

suedonym

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 1, 2015
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Forgive my ignorance as I imagine this is well-trodden ground but has there ever been a direct documented case, or even anecdotally on here, of any degree of MDMA use causing a sudden onset of Multiple Sclerosis?

Can the very difficult recovery process of healing from a bad time with MDMA mimic the Multiple Schlerosis like symptoms?

It's just the things I've been suffering with these nearly past two weeks; paresthesia (pins and needles), dysphagia (difficulty swallowing), sudden inexplicable fatigue, brain haziness, poor sleep and digestion are all emblematic of it and things I've largely never suffered with before.
 
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Lying sleeplessly for the 12th night in a row, my body bursting into a sensation of tingling and tightness, I can't help but see how this is the early day of MS. I guess I'll go back the doctor and ask for an MRI if possible. I might as well bite the bullet.

A single act of substance abuse has given me a condition that will gradually deteriorate my quality of life, for life. What the hell was I thinking.
 
You do not have MS, you are freaking out because you are experiencing side-effects for the first time and this makes them appear much worse than they are. I sometimes experience chest tightness and wheezing when I've smoked too much weed, that's a symptom of lung cancer, doesn't mean I have it, just means they have symptoms in common, same thing here. How much did you take and how frequently are you rolling?
 
Thank you for replying. I appreciate my posts might sound alarmist and irrational, but this whole experience has been terrifying to me. I got so down with it the other night, I called The Samaritans. I just needed someone to listen.

It was a single dose of MDMA powder consumed orally, 150mg. It's the first time I've ever taken a drug other than smoking weed a handful of times with friends. Other than socially, I don't even drink. It's untested, my friend (who powder it was) has purchased a kit and is going to test it for me soon. Cart before the horse, I know. Said friend has been fine, which is both relieving and frustrating.

I did drink a reasonable if not excessive amount of alcohol at the same time. I know this is unwise, but I was completely ignorant, it was done for a lark on an otherwise normal night out.

Given such a small dose you'd presume there'd be no real lasting damage, but the following symptoms have got progressively worse and persisted for two weeks now.

- Constant pins and needles all over, occasional burning and numbness, itching, sometimes feels like a whole body vibration (this outside of the impotency is the most consistent and worrying symptom)
- Occasional tremors and twitching
- Gradual reduced sexual sensitivity culminating in near-impotence
- Complete loss of appetite and severe gastro-intestinal stress
- Initially delayed cognitive processing - stunted speech, hazy mind etc. though this has seemingly largely died down
- Delay in passing stools
- Difficulty chewing, swallowing, dry mouth, bad breath, unusual taste in mouth
- Difficulty getting to sleep, reduced length of sleep and often waking up with a racing heart, sweating
- Bodily pain and cramping lying in certain positions
- Intermittent aching pressurised feeling in both upper and lower back
- Being sick, particularly first thing in the morning
- Restricted feeling in lungs, shortness of breath, frequent cough

This isn't normal. And I appreciate people trying to reassure me but dismissing it as anxiety is starting to feel a little insulting. I have known what anxiety and panic is like and this isn't it. I'm only agitated because of these terrifying symptoms. Nearly all of those symptoms are indicative of MS.

I did go to the doctor, he seemed perturbed by my paraesthesia and asked about my memory. I said it was initially poor but gradually coming back. Which seemed to allay his concerns. He said, like you, I'm just experiencing side effects that should hopefully go, and prescribed me stomach acid tablets for my indigestion.

But this is two weeks, and I don't know how common or uncommon they are, but living life like this is a nightmare. If I do have any anxiety, the complete lack of clarity makes it worse. I appreciate you trying to dampen my fears though.
 
In my other thread you said about Magnesium supplements.

Initially when all this happened, in the very earliest days, I didn't (couldn't, still can't) eat much, and drank a lot of water, I think in some imagined design to cleanse my system.

Could any of these symptoms be indicative of a nutritional deficiency? My limited diet and excessive water and tea consumption somehow stripped my body of something it needs?
 
Your GP is your best bet. But yeah, it depends on what you mean by a limited diet.

Run some blood/urine tests if you are that worried.
 
By limited, well in the first week I basically lived on one meal a day. And just ate like crackers and other things I didn't think would aggravate my belly. I had bad diarrhoea at first.

I have eaten a little more as times gone on. Two average meals a day, and exorcising all fatty food stuffs on my GP's behest. Drinking a reasonable amount of water or decaf tea with no sugar, also no alcohol, medication and certainly no other illicit substances.
 
Now, my whole body is vibrating, the tingling twitchiness has consumed my entire form. It's nauseating.
 
I was going to say just about what Kl519 said. Sorry if I sounded dismissive, this was really not my intention since I know from experience how alarming side-effects like that can be. But because of this I also know they are never permanent and seem worse than they actually are. Like Kl519, if you're in doubt you should really go see a doctor, we can provide you with stories of our own, but not with anything definitive, only anecdotes. And yeah, it could be a nutritional imbalance, a hormonal imbalance or something else entirely, but brain damage or similar permanent issues, no, it takes a lot more than that to do any permanent damage (a WHOLE lot)

It's good that you're exercising, I noticed this helps enormously
 
It's okay, I appreciate dealing with people enduring this scenario and blaming the drug in question over and over must get tiring.

I think my primary fear is, even if the MDMA didn't do any 'brain damage' as such, it could still have triggered off some dormant susceptibility to MS in my system.

That I've had such a strong reaction from such a relatively small use, and my friend hasn't also worries me. That it's endured for two weeks more so.

Exercising has had the odd side effect of making the body tingles worse, rather than relieving them. Today my entire body has felt like it's on fire and not in a good way. But I won't give up.

Have you ever had side effects from this specific drug, and if so, how long did they endure? I know anecdotes wont fix me, but a little reassurance actually helps a lot in dealing with the stress of it :)

I'll try and book another appointment early next week.
 
I've actually had worse (I think, difficult to compare) once or twice, after really really hardcore binges. Most it ever took me to get back to normal was about 2 months, but those two months were the worst of my life. It appeared like my body didn't quite listen to what my mind was telling it anymore, it kind of just started to throw out random weird symptoms, some of which you also describe (difficulty chewing, tremors, troubles getting it up and being interested in sex, brain zaps, severe severe depression, even more severe anxiety, sudden onset of blacked out vision, black spots in vision, small to medium hallucinations, mood swings, sudden and severe stomach cramps, balance issues,.... the list goes on)

Yes, you only took a bit and it doesn't happen often that that produces such severe side-effects but it's not unheard of, and even in those cases it isn't permanent, your body is much stronger than that, one single dose isn't going to fuck it up permanently. Also I would like to suggest you do not completely dismiss anxiety as a possible part of this, not the root cause, a possible part of it. It's very much possible that this is something 100% physical, but it can't hurt to try to counteract every possible cause. Seriously, I've seen a lot of people fuck themselves up temporarily, both in real life and here on bluelight and I do not know of one single case that suffered from side-effects permanently, nor anyone that triggered anything like MS by taking MDMA. Feel free to send me a PM should you feel the need to talk, it can take a while before I reply, I'm insanely busy, but I always reply sooner or later and I'm always willing to talk
 
That is reassuring, thank you.

I guess I'll just have to try and remain positive and keep my mind as occupied as possible. I know there's going to be a lot of dark nights of the soul in the meantime. I hope it is only a 1-2 month case.

After exhaustive googling I haven't found one case directly linking MDMA abuse however light, with MS either.

I've definitely had anxiety about it, and it may have slightly exacerbated the existing conditions. I do have a history of OCD and anxiety troubles.

Can I ask, would it be acceptable to drink a small amount of beer? I've been able to sweat it out for two weeks on my own so far but next weekend I have a small social event. I can just drink soft drinks all night if it'd be wiser though.

Thanks all the same though, it's nice to know I have someone to message if needs must. :)
 
I should say my friend performed a test on the same batch we took, and it has come up as 'High MDMA content' (with pictorial evidence). I presume this doesn't exclude other substances, but it is fairly reassuring.
 
I terrified myself by looking up Peripheral Neuropathy. I felt very positive yesterday, and I really am trying to avoid panic and self diagnosis, but the symptoms are eerily similar, even more so than MS.

These could all just be weird MDMA side effect that passes. But these symptoms are unusual, specific, and possibly dangerous.

I shall go back the doctors and try and get whatever tests done to help determine what if anything is up.
 
Forgive my ignorance as I imagine this is well-trodden ground but has there ever been a direct documented case, or even anecdotally on here, of any degree of MDMA use causing a sudden onset of Multiple Sclerosis?

Can the very difficult recovery process of healing from a bad time with MDMA mimic the Multiple Schlerosis like symptoms?

It's just the things I've been suffering with these nearly past two weeks; paresthesia (pins and needles), dysphagia (difficulty swallowing), sudden inexplicable fatigue, brain haziness, poor sleep and digestion are all emblematic of it and things I've largely never suffered with before.

You do not have MS. MS is progressing condition, to diagnose it, you'd need to have neuroimaging done at least a couple of times, with increasing damage each time. I had/have exactly your symptoms +- a couple more. A CT scan and EEG showed nothing (visibly) wrong with my brain, like for so many ltc-sufferers. Your condition is most likely non-permanent. If you're unlucky it might just take a really long time to go away, or it could end rather soon.
Peripheral Neuropathy sounds a little closer, maybe ask your doc? Though keep in mind, that people who get peripheral neuropathy often can't really escape the underlying cause (i.e. diabetes, genetic factors, smoking, stress, etc.), while you probably won't touch MDMA again. So your prognosis is much better than for the usual sufferer.

Anxiety also is a big part of the condition, for me it got much better when I first could put my finger on tangible improvements of some symptoms. That really combats the grueling thoughts of permanent damage.
 
Psychoactive substances can trigger autoimmune diseases, but it ishighly unlikely in your case. Brain zaps maybe simply a neuronal modulation process as a result of an imbalance of certain neurotransmitters (not only serotonin!). The brain can't feel brain, but if the filtering of certain processes is reduced by depleted serotonin, some parts of the brain might interpret information differently and let the feeling of paresthesia arise. Maybe some receptors overshoot after the blocking of the receptors, which finally lead to recetptor depression. Well I am just speculating ^^

I got parasthesia from MDMA and aripiprazole withdrawal so I can feel your pain. Keep quiet and stay away from drugs till your symptoms disappear. Your psych is your biggest enemy here!
 
Thank you both for replying.

I've been to the doctors twice in two weeks as the symptoms developed/worsened. I did ask about Peripheral Neuropathy, and they told me to take a blood test for any deficiencies. I'm awaiting the results now. They've also given me meds for anxiety which I've just started taking with a little reluctance. Alongside stomach acid-blockers for the acid reflux like symptoms.

Outside of even my diet and sleep the scariest symptom has been my impotence. It started with reduced sensitivity and pleasure from orgasm and now I can barely get it up or have any interest in sex. It makes you feel so emasculated and sexless.

I'm trying to remain positive I'll get better, but it's so hard when you can't sleep easily, can't eat much, and can't enjoy any sexual activity. And sometimes my body will just vibrate, like be crippled with sensation, to the point where I can't ignore it. Hope right now, is all I have.

Yeah I'm not going to touch MDMA or any remotely illicit substance again after this. I'm touchy about booze at the minute, which is further adding to the social isolation.

MB-909 did your parasthesia symptoms reduce in time? If so how long did it take for you?
 
The human psych/the brain rewires itself all the time. It will go away. What you are experiencing is an anxiety attack/episode, which is known to be one of the side effects of MDMA. Overthinking won't help the matter, so try to focus on something else. Give your life a meaning. I am used to it, because of my mental condition. Parasthesia is scary, but not permanent in your case! It took me 2-3 weeks after MDMA and 4-6 weeks after aripiprazole to ignore and soon afterwards it disappeared completely, without a trace.
 
I hope it'll pass in a reasonable time mate. I'd like to believe it's just anxiety, or weird side effects there of.

Well my GP rang with my blood test results. Just elevated cholesterol, got to go see them next week.

Which is both relieving but also unsatisfying. If this constant nerve jangle, burning and numbness feeling was caused by a vitamin deficiency then I'd at least know how to temper it.

I still think some kind of peripheral neuropathy is most likely. When I use my hands they tingle or go numb, after I eat my whole lower belly and reproductive area squirms and twists and tingles unpleasantly, and when I eat my jaw feels like it's locking up, bloating or stiffening. Whatever my current emotional state. All of this is inconsistent though, and I can temporarily 'ignore it', for short periods of time.

But I will try and take all of your words for it. I have recovered my appetite somewhat and am sleeping a little better and more consistently. But the complete sexual dysfunction persists, which is already really getting me down. Thankfully I'm not in a relationship so this is only affecting me. How much of this is being helped and/or hindered by starting SSRI's, I don't know.

Thanks though, guess I've gotta try and keep the faith.
 
Hi suedonym, I have a lot to say on the neuropathy! Please read the bit I wrote on respiratory alkalosis especially. Aside from the classic SSRI withdrawal/low serotonin zaps and such, I think a great many things can contribute to pins and needles. Your nerves are very oxygen thirsty, they actually consume about 20% of your bodies oxygen supply even though they are less than 2% of your mass. The arteries that run through the nerves themselves are called the vasa nervorum. When your nerves aren't getting adequate oxygen the symptoms kick up, this includes twitching (fasciculations/myoclonus) and the pins and needles. Now what contributes to your nerves not getting enough oxygen? Vasoconstriction is an important factor. When your arteries constrict your nerves are in big trouble, not permanent damage just to be clear (it takes a long time consecutively without oxygen for the nerves to actually get damaged) but the CNS symptoms will kick up. Many things contribute to too much vasoconstriction/not enough vasodilation but adrenaline is a big one.

Another one to keep in mind that you have conscious control of is hyperventilating, when it gets severe it is known as respiratory alkalosis and what typically happens is the extremities go from pins/needles to numb, then they start to spasm and eventually you will go full on tetanus mode if the hyperventilating is bad enough. Though this can result in a feeling of heavy tingling (almost massage-like) falling asleep throughout the body, hard to describe but it is a head to toe feeling caused by hyperventilating, this can kick up when you do cardio and breathe like crazy. Reduced blood flow to the brain can put you in a horrible brain fog and this can kick in at lower levels of respiratory alkalosis too. When you have too much oxygen in your bloodstream (saturation) your cells actually can't get oxygen, you need some CO2 for your cells to get oxygen. This can become very strange because you will be short of breath because you actually have too much oxygen and not enough cO2. Very counter intuitive.

Essentially, hyperventilating will not only be contributing not only to adrenaline/vasoconstriction but if your oxygen level is saturated your nerves will actually have a harder time getting oxygen. This will first be felt in the extremities (usually hands first, they will burn typically when used as more oxygen is being used up by the nerves, but if you let them rest a while typically they will get better, point being is that its transient) but all nerves/tissues throughout the body suffer when it comes to oxygen saturation :( If you combine some nerve compression (laying down a certain way) with the vasoconstriction from adrenaline and lack of tissue oxygen perfusion from respiratory alkalosis, you can get some nasty neuropathy. But it will get better, key point is that this is not permanent damage. And if your nerves are getting compressed in a physical location somewhere (much more likely than a demyelinating polyneuropathy) this can be fixed as well, its not permanent :) But the compression neuropathy (if you have it somewhere) is very likely the exact same as it was before, its just that now that your nerves have even less oxygen for whatever reason, the same exact physical nerve compression that didn't give you problems before is now enough to bring the symptoms to the surface. A common one with anxiety/chest breathing (and one that will develop quickly if a chest breathing pattern builds in the muscles over the years) is thoracic outlet syndrome, the nerve is compressed near the ribcage with all the chest breathing (common breathing pattern when hunched in a chair, not a whole lot of space to breath through the stomach and not move the ribcage), symptoms are worst with the hands out in front or over your head (which even in normal people cuts blood flow anyways). Combine a little bit of each one of these contributors to neuropathy and you will have a bag of fun, but don't be convinced that it is MS or necessarily thoracic outlet syndrome, I am knowledgeable regarding MS and I don't believe you have it :) One thing particularly useful you will find as far as nutritional deficiencies go for neuropathy (and maybe something that was on your lab work already) is probably b12. You could take a good multi and B vitamin multi to be sure your nerves are getting what they need.

The vasoconstriction/sympathetic activity could very well be contributing to the not getting it up btw.

I highly recommend cardio, deep stomach breathing (to stimulate the vagus nerve and parasympathetic nervous system to calm you down) and mindfulness meditation, the goal is to focus on the sensation of breathing slow and clear your thoughts/shut off the voice in your head, every time your mind wanders return your attention to the breath. This will probably be very hard at first but give it some time and you will notice it start to benefit your sleep, and very likely your hands.

There are also sympatholytic medications to help shut off your adrenaline and dilate your arteries, such as Clonidine. I would ask your doctor about Clonidine probably, though there are meds that just work in the periphery to dilate the arteries too. Beware some of these meds in particular beta-blockers can hinder the production of melatonin so you should definitely take some extended release melatonin with it if you can get your doctor to prescribe, though melatonin will be good for you to take regardless. Clonidine etc. is not particularly addicting (Not at ALL like Xanax and such) but you will get sympathetic nervous system rebound if you are on them for a long time and don't taper off. But they could help you sleep too and this is essentially for your recovery. If you have any questions down the road feel free to PM me, I have been there my friend :(
 
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