MDA stole my soul from me PLEASE HELP

[Hellome]

two months ago I took a single pill of MDA and now my entire sense of self/interests/drive for life/passions/emotions are NONEXISTENT. I feel SO shut out from life, I have not spent a single second thinking about anything other than how terrified I am and what could possibly be wrong with me, my brain literally doesn't have the ability to think about anything else. I look at other people and wonder how they can think about real-life things. It seriously feels like a very large part of me died that night... I have absolutely 0 time perception, I could sit in the same spot for one minute or two hours and it wouldn't make a difference, no sense of urgency to do anything, no connection to how I went about life before, no ability to distract/entertain myself.. what the hell is going on?? I recently came across stuff about "ego death" and I can't deal with this as my reality. I was never into any spiritual stuff before this. It doesn't feel spiritual anyway, I literally am just an empty human now with the ability to function just to survive and have a memory of my amazing past. this is NO way to live and I spend every day mourning my life before that stupid night. Please help me :'(

 

[burn out]

Hi there. I am sorry you are going through this. What do you mean when you say it doesn't feel "spiritual"? Ego death and other spiritual phenomena won't necessarily always feel spiritual with angels singing above you or whatever because spirituality ultimately isn't about feelings (although there are all kinds of spiritual feelings which can occur).

Basically, spiritual can mean anything having to do with the reality of our experience that our ultra materialistic culture doesn't recognize or understand.

So as I see it there are two main possibilities. One is that your symptoms are caused purely by brain damage/disturbed brain chemistry caused by the MDXX or 2) your brain is not ordering your reality the way it used to either because it can't or because the MDXX experience pulled lack a layer of illusion for you and you have not integrated the new information. Or it could be any combination of the above.

To me it sounds as though your old ego identity was crushed by this experience and you do not know how to rebuild. Brain damage/accidents can also cause spiritual experiences, through interupting the brain's ability to maintain an identity construct.

Generally when the brain suffer an injury like what you describe, it has to rewire itself. The good news is that a lot of the parts of your brain you did not use before, can be redirected to perform lost functions. You may have to relearn how to experience time, how to entertain yourself, etc.

Try not to get too discouraged but practice acceptance instead. You would be amazed at the brain potential for healing, it just takes time. THis might be a good time for you to look into spirituality if you haven't before, because many spiritual teachings can give valuable advice for dealing with life's tragedies. It always helps to look at things from the bigger picture. You might also try seeing a counselor or at least making sure you get lots of support from friends and family. ALso eat well and exercise.

 

[cyberius]

You have low serotonin, I'm just like you. MDA has kicked your serotonin system pretty hard and now you're clinically depressed.

Go see a therapist and tell them everything but the drug use. You'll probably get SSRI's, they will help immensely.

 

[Loozer_Magnet]

You have low serotonin, I'm just like you. MDA has kicked your serotonin system pretty hard and now you're clinically depressed.

Go see a therapist and tell them everything but the drug use. You'll probably get SSRI's, they will help immensely.

I agree.

 

[opiatekrzy]

I don't know if you ever read part one to the book PIKHAL, but the chemists wife explained a similar story to what you wrote after a trip while her husband did not experience the apathy, it was summed up that it was not related to the drug at all, and more had to do with your past, and present, and also explained over time she went back to normal. ..seeking counseling wouldn't hurt

 

[socrilus]

You have low serotonin, I'm just like you. MDA has kicked your serotonin system pretty hard and now you're clinically depressed.

Go see a therapist and tell them everything but the drug use. You'll probably get SSRI's, they will help immensely.

What is wrong with telling the therapist about the drug use? If you don't say that then how would the therapist find or know the cause to help you better?

 

[Itsgoneundertheboa]

The OP basically stated exactly why they are feeling as they do;

"life/passions/emotions are NONEXISTENT. I feel SO shut out from life, I have not spent a single second thinking about anything other than how terrified I am and what could possibly be wrong with me, my brain literally doesn't have the ability to think about anything else"

I say stop listening to doom and gloom. Stop agonising over what you see as a mistake - life is all about mistakes. It's how you learn from them that matters. If you continue along the track of self pity and beating yourself up over it your only ever going to reinforce the mistake you made. Move on stop thinking about it. You did a drug, you felt good you came down you felt bad. Shit happens. Go get involved in life do something productive, get exercise. Set yourself a goal go out and achieve it. Turn your negative state to a positive.

You won't go anywhere even with therapy or SSRI unless your prepared to realise that it's simply your brain stuck in the loop of self pity trying to find answers that simply aren't there.

Only you can change you.

 

[Nambo]

I say stop listening to doom and gloom. Stop agonising over what you see as a mistake - life is all about mistakes. It's how you learn from them that matters. If you continue along the track of self pity and beating yourself up over it your only ever going to reinforce the mistake you made. Move on stop thinking about it. You did a drug, you felt good you came down you felt bad. Shit happens. Go get involved in life do something productive, get exercise. Set yourself a goal go out and achieve it. Turn your negative state to a positive.

You won't go anywhere even with therapy or SSRI unless your prepared to realise that it's simply your brain stuck in the loop of self pity trying to find answers that simply aren't there.

Only you can change you.

Okay it's quite clear you have never suffered from the generously labeled LTC. This is not a pity party where the OP is beating herself up or trying to feel sorry for herself. What she is experiencing can only be described as utterly horrifying, namely a state which is so alien to anything only a fraction of people on this board will ever experience, being the death of the self. If you haven't been there just pray you never experience it because it is terrifying and feels (and could be) permanent. Her thinking about it is totally involuntary. It's like being held under water and then berating the person for thinking about drowning.

 

[Itsgoneundertheboa]

Okay it's quite clear you have never suffered from the generously labeled LTC. This is not a pity party where the OP is beating herself up or trying to feel sorry for herself. What she is experiencing can only be described as utterly horrifying, namely a state which is so alien to anything only a fraction of people on this board will ever experience, being the death of the self. If you haven't been there just pray you never experience it because it is terrifying and feels (and could be) permanent. Her thinking about it is totally involuntary. It's like being held under water and then berating the person for thinking about drowning.

Lol yeh mate make ur assumptions. I've been doing MDMA since 88. I've had comedowns, pretty bad ones to be honest. I've been through ego death and depersonalisation from 800 ug trips. I've had amphetamine psychosis ongoing for a year after abusing the crap out of it.

So yeh I'm fairly aware and I think what you guys all term a long term comedown is a term which is variable but suits the needs of our avid posters in this section to ring fence any persons down.

Power of suggestion is a huge influence especially when someone is having a bad time.

You and your LTC crew ain't doctors you don't have any knowledge of the person or their actual history other than what they state. I'd advocate caution to use generalised terms to susceptible people suffering issue. It is in fact waaaaayyy more dangerous to someone like the OP suggesting after a few days they have some mysterious condition. Than telling them to get some exercise and stop thinking and start doing something.

You ever taken on bike down a mountain on your LTC? Go do it. I guarantee as your flying down that mountain looking death in the face at every turn you'll forget any notion of what your brain says except survive, adrenalin and god I feel great when you make it. Or forgive me does LTC leave you so debilitated you can't actually stand?

 

[Londonscouser]

Lol yeh mate make ur assumptions. I've been doing MDMA since 88. I've had comedowns, pretty bad ones to be honest. I've been through ego death and depersonalisation from 800 ug trips. I've had amphetamine psychosis ongoing for a year after abusing the crap out of it.

So yeh I'm fairly aware and I think what you guys all term a long term comedown is a term which is variable but suits the needs of our avid posters in this section to ring fence any persons down.

Power of suggestion is a huge influence especially when someone is having a bad time.

You and your LTC crew ain't doctors you don't have any knowledge of the person or their actual history other than what they state. I'd advocate caution to use generalised terms to susceptible people suffering issue. It is in fact waaaaayyy more dangerous to someone like the OP suggesting after a few days they have some mysterious condition. Than telling them to get some exercise and stop thinking and start doing something.

You ever taken on bike down a mountain on your LTC? Go do it. I guarantee as your flying down that mountain looking death in the face at every turn you'll forget any notion of what your brain says except survive, adrenalin and god I feel great when you make it. Or forgive me does LTC leave you so debilitated you can't actually stand?

Nambo isn't making assumptions, this is real life experiences from real people.

Ego death, depersonalization and psychosis is nothing compared to the situation described previously. At least those are disorders that can be overcome and you can lead a happy life. Majority of depersonalized sufferers recover after sometime. Psychosis is treatable with medication and for you it was probably only induced by your amphetamine abuse.

I'm not even talking about a 'LTC' because that isn't applicable to what is described. A better term would be permanent mental torture.

Flying down a mountain looking death in the face would seem like a relief to these people. There is a reason why people like Somedud decided to kill himself after years of trying to recover. He couldn't stand living with the emotional numbness and the fact he couldn't even relate to his parents etc

If you don't know what you're talking about, it's probably better to not talk at all.

 

[happy_dude]

To the OP: I don't know what problem you have and I don't know how to fix it, however, I've had very similar problems in the past and had very similar thoughts to those that you are having now.

The good news is that I recovered. In fact, all of the stories I've seen about long term come downs (which is a very broad generalisation, admittedly), over time every single person got better. 10 years on from when it happened to me, my life is as good as it has ever been. In many ways that LTC helped me to achieve things in life I thought I never would.

So my advice is: just keep reminding yourself it's going to get better and do don't anything stupid because you're worried things will never get better.

Best of luck. Always happy to chat.

 

[happy_dude]

Okay it's quite clear you have never suffered from the generously labeled LTC. This is not a pity party where the OP is beating herself up or trying to feel sorry for herself. What she is experiencing can only be described as utterly horrifying, namely a state which is so alien to anything only a fraction of people on this board will ever experience, being the death of the self. If you haven't been there just pray you never experience it because it is terrifying and feels (and could be) permanent. Her thinking about it is totally involuntary. It's like being held under water and then berating the person for thinking about drowning.

And it sounds like you clearly have been through it. There is no way you can just think your way out of it. It is way more than that. I think your analogy of drowning is very accurate

It's ten years ago since it happened to me and even I can't fully appreciate what it feels like anymore. I have clear memories of lots of specific events, but I can't get close to those feelings of utter doom. Obviously that's a good thing, because it shows that people do recover. But on the other hand, it's that unique I don't even think you can try and explain it anyone else. I tried to talk to lots of people and they just thought I had mental issues. And obviously I did, but I also knew I was still myself and that I didn't have issues.

Now I'm getting stuck trying to explain it and no-one wants to hear me waffling anyway.

 

[Jabberwocky]

You have low serotonin, I'm just like you. MDA has kicked your serotonin system pretty hard and now you're clinically depressed.

Go see a therapist and tell them everything but the drug use. You'll probably get SSRI's, they will help immensely.

Low serotonin from a dose or 2 of MDA and MDXX is BULLSHIT -- please stop spreading scientifically false info

serotonin recovers in less than 48 hours, especially with MDA as it is much more a dopamine releaser than serotonin -- i have linked the studies that prove how quickly serotonin levels recover in other threads in this forum


The issue is the down-regulation of the serotonin receptors, and probably cognitive dissonance regarding his/her life path.

SSRIs are the WRONG aswer as they downregulate receptors even worse


Purposely going on a tryptophan deficient diet for 3 weeks should fix you up -- it up-regulated serotonin receptors in rats that had been down-regulated

Basically it reduces the levels of serotonin (cant make serotonin without tryptophan) so your brain responds by up-regulating the serotonin receptors (so the same functions can be performed with less serotonin) -- when you change back to your normal diet, your serotonin system should be close to back to normal


if you are on a tryptophan deficient diet (like certain vegan diets) that could be your problem -- but its not because of the MDA

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

Purposely going on a tryptophan deficient diet for 3 weeks should fix you up -- it up-regulated serotonin receptors in rats that had been down-regulated

Basically it reduces the levels of serotonin (cant make serotonin without tryptophan) so your brain responds by up-regulating the serotonin receptors (so the same functions can be performed with less serotonin) -- when you change back to your normal diet, your serotonin system should be close to back to normal

if you are on a tryptophan deficient diet (like certain vegan diets) that could be your problem -- but its not because of the MDA

You're giving some dangerous advice regarding a tryptophan deficient diet. Also, I really don't think that we can explain the adverse affects that some people are experiencing with MDMA and similar psychostimulants with simple receptor homeostasis issues. And for the matter of SSRIs apparently being the wrong path because they cause further down regulation of receptors - the downregulation of receptors like 5-HT2A/5-HT2C has been linked to antidepressant response, and SSRIs reverse cortisol induced downregulation of 5-HT1A (which has shown to be critical in antidepressant response).

People with the short form of 5-HTTLPR have a higher incidence of MDD after stress and higher incidence of adverse effects after MDMA and DIETARY TRYPTOPHAN DEPLETION. It's possible that those with the short form are more vulnerable to cortisol induced neuroplasticity and dendritic remodeling, although you don't need the short form to still be affected by cortisol. Given that SSRIs are good at reversing the effects of cortisol, I wouldn't go around telling people that's the wrong path. Anecdotally they've helped many people with LTCs and many other conditions, which may of course be co-morbid.

I think we are really misunderstanding the differences between a bad comedown/hangover and a long term comedown. There is a large magnitude of severity and probably biological cause difference between those two phenomena, but also probably a continuum between the two to some degree.

For the record, many people with LTCs have reported success (sometimes very substantial) with SSRIs, even after trying much psychotherapy etc.

I'm all for mindfulness, cardio and CBT, but some people might need the extra help of pharmacology if the aforementioned fail or only cause very partial remission. Approaching the problem from more than one angle can be very helpful. As long as the angle isn't dietary tryptophan depletion which is known to worsen MDD in the same population of people that are known to have more adverse effects from MDMA. ?????

 

[Jabberwocky]

For the record, many people with LTCs have reported success (sometimes very substantial) with SSRIs, even after trying much psychotherapy etc.

For the record they were likely suffering from depression before MDMA.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

For the record they were likely suffering from depression before MDMA.

For the record, that is probably the case in fewer than 50% of the LTC cases. Abusing psychostimulants severely can indeed lead to adverse effects and I'm sure this is more likely to occur in people with a history of drug abuse and psychiatric illness but there are many people who had no appreciable previous issues who payed dearly for a couple pills - these people probably have a fairly different syndrome than chronic psychostimulant abuse adverse effects.

Most LTCs I've read about (and I've read about a lot) and people I've talked to have very little history of mental issues or history of psychiatric diagnosis, these are oftentimes people who report previously being content and happy all their lives, although some of these people do have a family history of psychiatric diagnosis. But many of them specifically mention having perfect mental health all their lives (often leaving them fairly poorly equipped to deal with an LTC).

You're misunderstanding the effect of the environment and stressors on people with a short form of 5-HTTLPR - The short form doesn't outright increase risk of MDD, it specifically increases risk of MDD from stress, while people without severe stress are phenotypical. It's a gene - environment interaction. Thus it's possible that the stress of xyz psychostimulants or a bad trip could (very occasionally) cause mental illness that wasn't actually present neither biologically nor symptomatically before, although it's possible that some previous/concurrent stresses contributed to what we know as the LTC in many cases. But the point is the magnitude of the case.

Too many people get a hangover from E and then conflate that with an LTC, telling other people to apparently just mountain bike down a hill and stress themselves out and just get some good old cortisol pumping and it will fix them right up -.-

 

[socrilus]

For the record they were likely suffering from depression before MDMA.

I don't think thats the case. There are definitely A LOT of people who were perfectly normal before and then suddenly get the LTC

Weren't you the one who said to look into the HPA dysregulation stuff?

I do still wonder if the theory discussed in the recovery thread and what Cotcha mentioned above which sort of integrates that HPA axis aspect (cortisol induced changes in the brain) which then perpetuate the cortisol related damage and then resulting in lower cortisol from SNS adaptation is a potential contributor of the LTC for some subset of people. Though it has nothing to do with HPPD but that is in a subset of the subset of people who get LTC.

Basically whether its the hypothalamus getting the wrong signals from other areas in the brain which were affected negatively by the huge cortisol increase

Stimulants do impact the HPA axis so I am wondering if MDMA is just such a powerful stimulant that it does this in people who are vulnerable for a variety of genetic factors including but not limited to the gene Cotcha mentioned. And if some bodies are just faster at restoring homeostasis.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I don't think thats the case. There are definitely A LOT of people who were perfectly normal before and then suddenly get the LTC

Weren't you the one who said to look into the HPA dysregulation stuff?

I do still wonder if the theory discussed in the recovery thread and what Cotcha mentioned above which sort of integrates that HPA axis aspect (cortisol induced changes in the brain) which then perpetuate the cortisol related damage and then resulting in lower cortisol from SNS adaptation is a potential contributor of the LTC for some subset of people. Though it has nothing to do with HPPD but that is in a subset of the subset of people who get LTC.

Basically whether its the hypothalamus getting the wrong signals from other areas in the brain which were affected negatively by the huge cortisol increase

Stimulants do impact the HPA axis so I am wondering if MDMA is just such a powerful stimulant that it does this in people who are vulnerable for a variety of genetic factors including but not limited to the gene Cotcha mentioned. And if some bodies are just faster at restoring homeostasis.

HPA dysregulation presents as mainly panic and anxiety.

I would challenge that aside from heroic doses, LTC is psycho-somatic and/or HPA dysregulation.

Drug seeking behavior and depression and/or mood disorders are highly correlated, depression and seeking euphoriants -- even moreso.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

It is not helpful nor accurate to argue that the various drug induced depersonalization syndromes or LTCs/HPPD are psychosomatic, especially if there are genetic contributions to the risk of developing these syndromes. It would be similar to saying schizophrenia is psychosomatic/somatoformic, when in actuality if one twin has schizophrenia the other twin has a 50% chance of having it, hinting that there is a strong biological/genetic cause and that people aren't in 100% control of developing the condition.

Most people have their severe symptoms and then only after that they start googling - it's not typically the case that they are fine and just having a very mild hangover and then the googling etc. causes the LTC psychosomatically/somatoformically. Some of the catastrophizing type symptoms could simply be downstream of feeling horrible, although catastrophizing is obviously still something to address as a therapeutic target.

Furthermore you're misunderstanding the term psychosomatic illness. It's meant to imply a situation where mental processes are contributing to a peripheral disease like stress feeding into high blood pressure. Stress (including alteration of neurotransmission and biology by a foreign substance) causing synaptic remodeling etc. which causes depression or depersonalization wouldn't be considered a psychosomatic illness because there is alteration of normal thought processes and biology with the original drug ingestion.

If the acute alteration in thought processes and biology results in effects on biology that last beyond the drug's clearance then these are not psychosomatic any more than your Parkinson's would be if you shot yourself up with MPTP, although maybe the worrying would result in a few more dopaminergic cells dying.

It is perfectly acceptable to state that doing what what we can to control our mental processes in a way that is conducive to resolving the biological issue is a therapeutic target, but to say that an illness is psychosomatic is inferred by most as "it's all in your head", which ignores everything we know about causality of behavior and thoughts and can result in feeling of shame for patients who fail to get better.

It's like we're back to treating addiction as a moral failure instead of a biological disease.

 

[Jabberwocky]

It is not helpful nor accurate to argue that the various drug induced depersonalization syndromes or LTCs/HPPD are psychosomatic, especially if there are genetic contributions to the risk of developing these syndromes.

Sure it is. For many it IS psychosomatic.

Remember, psychosomatic issues cause real symptoms.

I know what psychosomatism is -- and your a bit off -- think more like hysterical blindness