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mCPP,mMPP,pMPP,methBZP - piperazines

yaesutom

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 15, 2000
Messages
1,730
Does anyone have any experience with:
mcpp '1-(3-Chlorophenyl)piperazine hydrochloride'
mmpp '1-(3-Methoxyphenyl)piperazine hydrochloride'
pmpp '1-(4-Methoxyphenyl)piperazine Dihydrochloride'
There's a tiny bit of info on the net, but not much.
Also, methBZP, has anyone ever tried it? All i've read is "I hear it is weaker than BZP" but no definite experience reports.
If I were to get a couple small samples, pmpp would be one but any suggestions for another?
 
mCPP is fucking evil. Its known in the scientific literature as a "panicogen" and I can vouch for it being a horrible experience. All the piperazines I've tried have been nasty.
 
You've got to be kidding... I love many things, its just that many of the more popular exotic drugs these days suck. I can't account for their popularity except that it's some mixture of cheapness, availability and hype.
DPT is amazing. 2C-T-2 is good. Methylone rocks. Mescaline cacti are my favorite psychedelics. Ayahuasca is a profound and magical key to the infinite. 5-MeO-DMT is a powerful, if brutal, trip through Bardo-type experiences. 2C-I, ethylacybin and iprocetyl all seem to have great potential, though I haven't experienced them myself. There are plenty of wonderful drugs out there... I don't understand why people insist on wasting their time with rejects like the piperazines, AMT, or 2C-T-7... beats me why these are so popular, while the really good ones have been mostly ignored. Guess its good they've been ignored though, at least on some levels.
 
Dude I had a great time with AMT. I think the thing is that everyone likes different things. Of course you cant understand why people do the things you dont like, because you dont like them! Oh well. I know AMT was good for me. As for piperazines I haven't had the chance to try them yet sorry.
[ 08 August 2002: Message edited by: BoRoG ]
 
Originally posted by BoRoG:
Of course you cant understand why people do the things you dont like, because you dont like them!

Wow, I think you hit the nail on the head with that one. I've been reading the forums, newsgroups, and so forth for about 8 years now and I can't get over how Murple always feels obligated to try and force his opinion on others. I swear that during this time I must've read well over a 100 posts by Murple about how piperazines, 5-meo-dipt, 5-meo-amt, etc all suck....even though he hadn't even tried half of them. I don't blame him for having his own opinions but for god's sake, give it a rest and let everyone else have theirs.
[ 08 August 2002: Message edited by: craig420 ]
[ 08 August 2002: Message edited by: craig420 ]
 
Well hey, at least this time i asked "ANYONE have experience with these" lol.
Yes, I seem to like drugs that murple happens to not like also. I had read a lot of his trip reports before trying 5-meo-dipt, 2ct2, BZP, AMT, etc.
Murple didn't like 5-meo-dipt, while I thought it was one of the best research chem's i've tried (well, one of the reasons was..its cheap! - not as good as 2C-I though!). I didn't like 2C-T-2, it gave me such bad shakes and I always felt "sad", although it did have good visuals, introspection, but god..made me shake 10x worse than 5-meo-dipt. As for piperazines...I think BZP rocks, yeah its not as good as amphetamines, but I think it is way better than ritalin, and i've never gotten those "2 day piperazine hangovers". I can agree with him that TFMPP really sucks though...tried it by itself..mixed with BZP (many doses tried), totally worthless TO ME! lol. AMT was just alright, but I wasn't impressed..great visuals, but it made me lazy, and lasted too long, but never a hangover (even a low dose of MDMA gives me a "worse" hangover than all these research chem's ever have - just the day after I am LAAAAZY)
 
Originally posted by Murple:
Your opinions are wrong. Just accept it.
Silly me how could I forget that?
[ 09 August 2002: Message edited by: BoRoG ]
 
Originally posted by Murple:
Your opinions are wrong. Just accept it.
Oh shit, that tickles me. That's why I love reading Murple's posts, even if he does have an axe to grind against certain substances.
 
I agree with Murple about the research chemicals.
I believe their popularity is due almost entirely to the hype and the fact that they're "new" and "exotic".
Most of them have horrible body loads. It makes absolutely no sense to me why people are willing to make themselves suffer excruciating nausea and just an overall bad physical feeling just to trip or whatever. There are a number of drugs that produce similar effects without having to go through so much trouble. Most of them also lack the depth of LSD or psilocybe mushrooms. Rather the trips are pure physical and abscent of spirituality or the mind-expanding effect.
In my opinion, 5-MeO-DiPT was especially similar to LSD, only second rate. It almost always gave me a stomach ache. Even at high doses, visually it just didn't do a lot. It lacked any marvelous visual hallucinations. It lacked any deep psychological effects. As far as I'm concerned, an sensual effects are purely placebo. I never had sex on it, but masturbating was no different than it would be on any other psychedelic. The coolest thing about it was listening to trippy CD's with vocals. But that definantly didn't make it worthwhile.
AMT produced spectacular hallucinations. But it was the most foulest smelling/tasting chemicals I've ever come across. The two times I tried it, I was burping and the taste/smell kept coming back, which was really disturbing and took away from the experience. Physically, I felt strange both times. The first time I only took 20mgs, so it didn't do very much. The second time I took 40mgs. It made several friends who took the same dose sick. I didn't get sick. And the trip was great... Until I started to come down. At which point I not only was entirely restless, but I was twitching. My friends reported the same thing. It was just mild twitching.. but really really powerful twitches. Quite a disturbing phenomenon. And all of us had some of the most horrible hangovers we have ever felt from any drug the next day. Enough to make me NEVER even want to consider using it again. The only guy I knew who wanted to do it again was someone who also enjoyed high doses of dramamine.
BZP alone didn't do very much as far as a stimulant. It was mild. It made me feel strange physically. A really strong chemical feel. I think the most prominent thing it did was dilate my pupils. Something about it just gave me the feeling that it wasn't healthy. I would assume just drink a large cup of Starbucks coffee instead.
BZP and TFMPP together was a lackluster experience. It felt alright, but it also felt as if it should have been doing more. And of course, it produced one of the most disgusting hangovers ever.
Salvia just felt like a cross between ketamine and ether.
Amanitas were just awful. I got blurred vision. Couldn't see anything far away. Had extreme hot and cold flashes. And ended up having my body drenched in sweat.
The only ones I enjoyed were 5-MeO-DMT and 2C-T-2.
5-MeO-DMT was the only one that produced absolutely no body load or ill feelings at all. It totally agreed with my body. And an hour after initially using it, it seemed to slightly elevate my mood. I assume that one of it's metabolites is serotonin, or a metabolite is metabolized into serotonin. The experiences always felt worthwhile.
2C-T-2 did infact produce a body load. I took 21mgs orally the first time. I definantly did not feel that it was worth it. The body load was significant. But the overall experience was rather weak. However, insufflated it was just absolutely extraordinary. I took some trial and error to figure out an appropriate dose. The first time I tried snorting it, I took 10mgs. Way too much. I vomitted and the first hour my muscles were all severely cramped. However, after that first hour, the ill feelings mostly subsided. The experience was just incredible. Visually, everything was just utterly distorted. Nothing stayed still. I put on some headphones and listened to Thee-O's Alien Abduction psytrance mixtape. After closing my eyes, I experienced synaethasia on a whole new level. Not only did I see the music, but I became bodiless and floated through a universe of colorful sound. It was one of the most amazing trips I've ever had. Eventually I found that the appropriate dose was about 5mgs. It produced only a minimal body load with a +3 trip. And the hallucinations were not all that much less than with 8 or 10mgs. The other thing that was interesting is that I could think very clearly on 2C-T-2. Combining it with MDMA was also amazing.
The only other ones that seem worthwhile to me are 2C-I and 4-AcO-DET. 2C-I seems as if the body load is bareable and the overall experience is pleasant. And being that 4-AcO-DET is so comparable to psilocybe mushrooms, it sounds exceptionally appetizing.
 
I've been reading the forums, newsgroups, and so forth for about 8 years now and I can't get over how Murple always feels obligated to try and force his opinion on others.
I disagree with him about a number of things.
But I also respect his opinions and I understand why he feels obliged to voice his opinions. Quite simply, he's objective when he uses drugs and doesn't simply like things because others do. His experiences don't seem to be shaped by things he's read, as it seems many people experience a lot of placebo after reading about Shulgin's experiences. And he also has a lot more experience and knowledge than most others.
 
I often have found that when you find these people who say "you're wrong, AMT and 5-MeO-DIPT are great!" if you ask them what other research chemicals they've tried, they haven't tried any others. They try the trendy ones, and they think they're great because they can get "legal" psychedelics. I suppose if the only research chemicals I'd tried were 5-MeO-DIPT or AMT, I'd probably think they kicked ass too... they're not as good as LSD, but hey, you can order them on the internet.
The thing is, there are chemicals that ARE as good as LSD, maybe even better... and you can (or could) order them off the internet too. This isn't just a matter of my opinion either. Look at something like 5-MeO-DIPT... a huge percentage of the reports from users mention nasty effects. Lots of people try the stuff and never want to touch it again. Compare this to some of the less trendy but better quality substances like 2C-I or ethylacybin. There's maybe one or two reports for each where people thought it wasn't too great, and the rest of the reports are glowingly positive. The thing is, instead of researching and seeking out the more obscure stuff, people just went for the trendy ones. First 2C-T-7, then 5-MeO-DIPT, then AMT. Follow the herd.
Factor in the fact that 5-MeO-DIPT and AMT are two of the cheapest research chemicals... and the expectations created by all the hype (anything called "foxy" must be good, right?)... and just plain familiarity... things start adding up.
My position is that most of the people raving about how great AMT and 5-MeO-DIPT are just don't have a whole lot of comparison points. They think the stuff is great because they just haven't had the better chemicals. Most of the people I've spoken to who have tried a broader range of chemicals don't have a very high opinion of AMT or 5-MeO-DIPT.
I'm sure some people who do have good comparison experience do really like AMT or 5-MeO-DIPT... but I suspect these people are a pretty small minority. If you took 100 people and gave all of them one dose each of all the research chemicals that were on the market, then told them they could get a free gram of the one they liked best... well, I don't think you'd be giving out too many grams of AMT or 5-MeO-DIPT.
This is why I feel the way I do about these chemicals. It's not simply a matter of me projecting my own tastes on everyone else.
[ 10 August 2002: Message edited by: Murple ]
 
Murple wrote:
I don't understand why people insist on wasting their time with rejects like the piperazines, AMT, or 2C-T-7
what ya got against 2-ct-7...i still haven't tried it, but I'm still curious...5-meo-dipt i also believe is a waste of time. But ive heard good things about t7, except for people who snorted it/mixed it with other things...but from experience let me know what you've found to be negative (naseua perhaps?, crazy body load?)
very curious
~hydra
[ 10 August 2002: Message edited by: HydrA ]
 
Aside from the safety concerns raised by all the problem reports and deaths... 2C-T-7 tends to produce a pretty nasty headache, and I think 2C-T-2 produces a much better trip (and 2C-B or mescaline an even better one). If you add up the good and bad, I just don't thing 2C-T-7 comes out as good as many other options.
 
I have tried AMT. I had no horrible body load, no nausea. I had an overall great time. I think I am one of the people who actually like AMT. Actually, read my trip report: http://www.bluelight.ru/cgi/ultimatebb1.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=30&t=000972&p=
And is everybody else able to find 2C-I and another phenethylamines online because so far I can only find tryptamines?
**EDIT**
That is not a request for any sources so dont give me any. hear me, I DO NOT WANT YOU TO POST SOURCES ON THIS BOARD. I just want to know if anyone else has found them.
[ 10 August 2002: Message edited by: BoRoG ]
 
2ct2 provided me with an overall better trip than 2ct7. Less nausea, smoother ride, even better visuals. ymmv.
 
How can one say some research chems are for the birds and some are good?
I personally enjoyed my AMT trips.
Just because there was no insight learned doesnt mean its a no-no drug. Well for me that is. I enjoy the visuals first the insight is just something secondary to me. We all have different reasons to take certain things.
It just seems to me becuase some of theese drugs bring no insight/understanding to you that you down them. Well like I said some people use them for different things.
AMT by far has been the most visual I have ever tried.
Although I will totally have to agree with negative body loads with some research chems. I feel its a price you have to pay if you truly want to research theese drugs. No one said it was going to be an easy ride. And if you research enough you will know that and be prepared for it.
Sorry though I cant help with the original question as I havent tried the piperazines
 
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