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Stimulants Maybe the Meth Has Changed?

Dude right! That’s exactly it!

I’ll do a small morning dose and it *poof* wears off magically all at once around 1pm. Eat a meal. Feel 100% normal. It’s exactly like a mega-adderall, with a little extra muscle pain lol. I’m so disappointed! Is the shit we had a handful of years ago like, legitimately gone? Seriously?

Like… HOW RUDE. I was trying to be a damn drug abuser

Na it's not gone. I had some not that long ago(last year or year before). My theory is that the 'good shit' aka the old stuff that made you feel like a million dollars is only(or atleast almost all) made by small time local cooks with pseudo and a particular recipe(or recipes).

I suspect that now that meth has become a 'big business' drug like cocaine and heroin, with tight supply lines controlled by just a few until it gets pretty close to the street level, that this handful of cartels who probably produce 90% of the meth consumed, are using shitty recipe/s that are easier to do or cheaper or whatever.


Why do I say all this? Well.. The only time in recent years I had the OG meth was through a very well connected person, and the bag he was holding was *from* a cook. He didn't have to say it, but that would almost guarantee it was pseudo cook as that's what many are familiar with atleast in my country.

And when you consider:
When all meth was awesome shit, it was all produced locally with pseudo - I am relatively sure that this was the case all over the world. Chances are that the meth you consumed in 2000s was produced within your own country, probably even city - wherever that is.
 
T

That makes sense. From 2012-2018 I was using and living in a rural town in southeast missouri and typically knew all the cooks I bought from, directly. It was only after I moved to a much bigger city, middle of the state (couple hours from St. louis) that I’ve ever been exposed to this shit. And everyone acting like it’s normal! Damn, dude. Guess I need to start commuting the 5 hours home to buy some every now and then…

The drive there will suck but the drive on the way back will be great haha. I'd do it if I knew I could get the OG stuff.
 
I don’t normally uh, commit crimes. 😂 Im gonna be so sketched out driving that long with it on me.

When I procure drugs from another side of my country(or go on holiday and want drugs at my domestic destination) I just send them on overnight courier. Its a great way to minimize any potential drama. Its not even the fact I might get a criminal charge - I would be able to dump my drugs out the window and let them blow away in the wind before I stop. I'd just be annoyed that I wasted my money/don't have the drugs!
 
Also I was thinking about how everyone who takes adderall knows about the few bad generic brands. People complain about way worse effects, I’ve had these pills and it feels like the dextro is way lower and levo too high. Huge difference (in a bad way). So maybe even a tiny bit of levomethamphetamine will block some of the dextro effects while altering the experience, adding anxiety.

Or maybe a tiny bit of leftover synth compounds somehow interact or block certain receptors.

— one thing I noticed, is that I will never experience psychosis with cartel meth, even if it’s “ok” (meaning, worked but far from perfect). With this d-meth, I felt on the edge of psychosis. I actually heard some mild voices after just one skipped day of sleep. So pure d isomer really seems to let the full dopamine thing happen. Something about the crappy meth that can even make you sleepy after enough.

I was doing some reading about inactive ingredients in generic drugs recently, and I came across an interesting thread on reddit where someone compared inactive ingredients in dexedrine vs. generic dextroamphetamine tablets. It was kind of an oh shit moment where i suddenly saw in very obvious terms how generics differ from brand, even if they contain the same dose of the drug (which can vary a bit). Interesting to think about the interplay with inactive ingredients in illicit meth. The subtle ways that drugs can be influenced by little things leading to big changes downstream.
 
I was doing some reading about inactive ingredients in generic drugs recently, and I came across an interesting thread on reddit where someone compared inactive ingredients in dexedrine vs. generic dextroamphetamine tablets. It was kind of an oh shit moment where i suddenly saw in very obvious terms how generics differ from brand, even if they contain the same dose of the drug (which can vary a bit). Interesting to think about the interplay with inactive ingredients in illicit meth. The subtle ways that drugs can be influenced by little things leading to big changes downstream.

You know I’ve actually entertained the idea too and indeed there is quite a bit of variation between brand name and generics of buprenorphine at least.. And the generics had a lot more crap overall.

-GC
 
L-meth has a longer half life and alters the pharmacokinetics of d-meth.
Sure, but not by much. Racemic meth and D-meth have similar effects and duration.

This study seems to contradict this claim that L-meth is somehow unpleasant or outright negative. L-meth was less potent (active at 0.5mg/kg i.e. 30mg, but not at 0.25mg/kg i.e. 15mg, both IV) , the effects lasted about half as long as a comparable dose of D-meth, it raised blood pressure less than D, and was (most interesting of all) actually equally as intoxicating and pleasurable as D-meth. And this was across a sample of 12 users.

I truly believe it is butylamphetamine.
Even if it was not conclusively identified, a GC analysis would seperate it easily, and provide at least the percentage it was present at.

Re: generics, the FDA requires testing to show a new formulation of a pill will release 80-120% the amount of drug compared to the original, and also many of the pill fillers/binders have no documented or theoretical effects on drug absorption or metabolism, hence why we use them for pills.
So the absolute worst case would be some brands being slightly lower dose.

I personally have never experienced any major differences between pill formulations, generic or not, and see no reason why there should be, either.

If you feel otherwise, feel free to report it to the FDA or just stick to your preferred brand. No harm no foul.
 
Sure, but not by much. Racemic meth and D-meth have similar effects and duration.

This study seems to contradict this claim that L-meth is somehow unpleasant or outright negative. L-meth was less potent (active at 0.5mg/kg i.e. 30mg, but not at 0.25mg/kg i.e. 15mg, both IV) , the effects lasted about half as long as a comparable dose of D-meth, it raised blood pressure less than D, and was (most interesting of all) actually equally as intoxicating and pleasurable as D-meth. And this was across a sample of 12 users.


Even if it was not conclusively identified, a GC analysis would seperate it easily, and provide at least the percentage it was present at.

Re: generics, the FDA requires testing to show a new formulation of a pill will release 80-120% the amount of drug compared to the original, and also many of the pill fillers/binders have no documented or theoretical effects on drug absorption or metabolism, hence why we use them for pills.
So the absolute worst case would be some brands being slightly lower dose.

I personally have never experienced any major differences between pill formulations, generic or not, and see no reason why there should be, either.

If you feel otherwise, feel free to report it to the FDA or just stick to your preferred brand. No harm no foul.
Until like 3 months ago, I'd agree with you seiko - but I am a lifelong zolpidem user. In the past 5 or so years I've gotten to the point where I don't take it every night, and I limit it by getting a 14 tab Rx when sleep needs to get corralled. I've been fighting this fight with little change for a long time. I did notice, however, that a new brand of zolpidem came out that just... hit me different. I don't know how to describe it, but I'm familiar with the compound and it just didn't quite do the same thing that it has done for a long time. This was coming off of a few weeks without it, and it is taking into account other potential cross tolerances. Something in the formulation impacted how it subjectively felt.

There are certain drugs that you take regularly enough where a change in effect beyond a certain 'range' is a ping. This was one of those moments. I asked for a new brand and they were able to get me something different, it went back to working as it always had.


2 possible things going on outside of me suddenly not paying attention to the things I pay attention to on my end:

1) Inactive ingredients playing a larger role than assumed - absorption interference, metabolism

2) Poor quality controls - the producer is in India and is relatively new. In this new era of globalization, it's possible that what they claim is within 10% effective dose is juked in a way that satisfies the regulators enough to not really care.
 
I’d like to further entertain the idea Meth in the US has changed somehow. Before I continue I hope this isn’t a repeat but I tried looking a bit to not find anything.

It appears there has been over the past 5yrs a shift in the way p2p is produced to the nitrostyrene method. Producing two impurities unique to the nitrostyrene route, N-butylamphetamine and N-cyclohexylamphetamine.

“Methamphetamine profiling data is then presented to show that nitrostyrene related profiles have been dominant in the United States for the last 3 years.” (As of 2019.)


And some more info from another article..

“The emergence of N-butylamphetamine and N-cyclohexylamphetamine in seized MA has recently triggered the nitroalkene chemistry. The two impurities result from a Knoevenagel reaction of benzaldehyde and nitroethane to form a nitrostyrene.

Toske et al. referred to this method as a nitrostyrene method (NTS) or a nitropropene method. The catalytic activities of butylamine/cyclohexylamine influence the conversion of the P2P precursors. The catalysts react with benzaldehyde to form imine, which then reacts with the nitroalkane to form a nitrostyrene as an intermediate. The reaction mixture at this step contains nitrostyrene and extractable cyclohexylamine/butylamine with a significant reaction potential. Based on a reaction proposed by Hass et al., nitrostyrene converts to P2P in the presence of iron powder and hydrochloric acid. The extractable cyclohexylamine/butylamine can then react with P2P to form the stable N-butylamphetamine, and N-cyclohexylamphetamine elucidated in MA seizures.

Since 2015, the two impurities were detected in MA seizures collected in the USA. The identification of the two impurities has been fundamental in tracking the P2P based MA synthesized by the nitrostyrene chemistry.” (As of 2020.)


Now I couldn’t find info on what concentrations these impurities are found out and there is scant info regarding pharmacology but I did find this..


To boil down what I’m reading in this article, n-butylamphetamine was the weakest of all the substituted Amphetamines tested. Of the bunch it was the only one that didn’t increase the rate of the guinea pig atria and wasn’t very reinforcing.

But despite it not increasing atria rate like all the other Amphetamines it was 16x more potent to reduce rats milk intake compared to Amphetamine or Meth.

I know I’m extrapolating a great deal here but this impurity sounds like a great anorexic but a horrible recreational drug. Especially if we compare to the few other butyl Amphetamines known to exist like MDBU which was pretty much inactive.

Bupropion is a chloro substituted butylcathinone, an NDRI. It seems the butyl sub makes for reuptake inhibitors which don’t often play well with releasers.

So there we have evidence for psychoactive impurities that may potentially weaken the meth high, and seems to correspond with all these users complaining of changes. I don’t personally use it enough or enough different batches to yet know but felt it interesting this recent emergence of impurities matches fairly well with the timeline individuals on here have talked about.

-GC
They aren't using chemistry to make this stuff they are using demonic alchemy
 
I'd like to chime in if that's okay.

I have narcolepsy and have taken Vyvanse for the better part of 10 years, with mixed success but vyvanse was the best-except for Cyclazodone. I had never tried meth until 6-8 months ago, multiple DNM sources, all rather crappy compared to Vyvanse.

I not once got "stimdick" or any increased libido from meth. It was sometimes okay at keeping me awake but not productive. No psychosis as far as I could tell. I was taking 75mg orally 2-3 times a day and would sleep 8-10 hours a night, while still feeling tired during the day. I found very little benefit from meth and assumed cross-tolerance was to blame and went on to try a RC available at the time: Cyclazodone. It was very subtle, I couldn't tell I was on anything but could stay up 3-4 days and be productive (web dev). It was pulled from the market so I tried meth once more, this time sourced locally.

(Starting a new paragraph to highlight the drastic difference in effects.)
New, locally sourced meth made me for the 1st time extremely horney. Stayed awake 4 days without any difficulty, tested me response times at day 4 and was still quicker than non-drug users in my life. I allowed myself to sleep 8 hours and repeated another few days. Horney all week, no tiredness, no appetite, stimdick, and only 1 negative side effect: I heard a section of music from The Legend of Zelda playing in my heard nonstop for 48 hours. My switch was off so I knew I wasn't really hearing it, but it sure sounded like I was listening to a loop of it the entire time. I found it rather peaceful.

I know now that it was a form of psychosis thanks to this comment: one thing I noticed, is that I will never experience psychosis with cartel Meth even if it’s “ok” (meaning, worked but far from perfect). With this d Meth I felt on the edge of psychosis. I actually heard some mild voices after just one skipped day of sleep. S

I ran out of locally sourced meth in the morning one day, and the evening that same day took some newly received DNM meth and it was back to the old almost worthless meth. A week of not being able to stay awake or productive or horny, I went back to locally sourced meth and got horny again. Not as much so I know tolerance is at play, but it isn't the only thing at play. I suspect it has to do with the ratios of D:L-meth.

I've not heard any more music playing in my head, nor have I stayed up more than ~30 hours since first running out of locally sourced meth. But unlike the DNM meth, I can take a larger 100mg-125mg dose and feel horny.
 
bumping this rather than starting a new thread in the hopes that some of you folks already invested in the conversation/investigation will be able to help me figure out a weird and very disturbing experience. if not, well, at least i'm adding a new data point... and maybe a cautionary tale someone will benefit from.

i have to preface this by saying that this was almost a year ago and occurred during a period of extreme upheaval/uncertainty/emotional trauma, so a lot of details that would surely be helpful are lost to me.

background about my history: i'm more familiar with meth than i planned to be (lol). i enjoyed a few short binges when i was a kid but went over a decade without touching it to focus on my burgeoning career as a fulltime junkie. after i finally quit for good, i ended up trying meth again and used pretty often for a few months, then daily without exception for at least as long. nearly every ROA possible. it got bad until i lost access. after nearly a year, it showed up again and i used frequently but irregularly for 18 months or so. then i lost access for a few more months.

now the experience that brings me here. a chance encounter resulted in an opportunity. i'd reconnected with an old friend and he was using some DNM to get all manner of shit. i was elated, as i had relapsed on painkillers and was in the middle of the aforementioned traumatic misery. i wanted off the opioids and wanted the energy and focus to figure out how to dig myself out of the nightmare i had been thrust into (and then made worse).

well, he hooked me up with much more than i had ever had at once. it was the best value on whatever market he was using when weighing dollars per gram against vendor reputation, i guess. i was stunned. this was like a six month supply even knowing i'd go hard af for fun in the beginning. package arrived and i was shocked by the fucking size of some of the crystals but figured i'd just never bought enough to see any like them. i was also struck by how much the shards stuck together but assumed it was a result of the vacuum sealing. after i chipped off a good bowl pack, i got a huge rip and a great rush. so began a few blissful days. i did kick the pills and got a ton done, including a lot of soul-searching about how i'd ended up there and where i wanted to go. eventually, i broke up the biggest shards until i ended up with a pretty uniform size and i weighed it out into separate containers with which to budget. so at this point everything is mixed, and i can't remember anything about the crackback pattern/speed and little about the hardness, though it did vary some iirc.

what i do remember: soon i began to worry about my technique. even with all my experience, i was never great at hitting a pipe between my vision, general lack of graceful movement, and shitty lungs - but this was worse and different. it seemed like i was burning it way faster, and it would turn this almost caramel brown color when it recrystallized after just a couple hits, even when i was certain that i had kept the flame sufficiently far and didn't think it could've been nearly long enough to burn. i was used to meth getting darker as i smoked and inevitably burned it, but this got significantly darker much faster. i tried switching between Bic lighters and torches and it didn't seem to make much difference. pipe, bong attachment, even the trusty appliance bulb. i tried packing smaller amounts, more powder, all crystal. even just enough for a single hit, which sometimes seemed to work. (obviously i wonder now whether that was because i sometimes got packs that were just meth.)

then there was the taste/smell. it was like... burning plastic or carpet fibers, with a sickening sweetness. it was immediately and intensely nauseating and seemed to stick on my tongue. that was definitely new to me, even having burned countless bowls (and pissed off countless friends lol). eventually i got to the point that i simply couldn't keep hitting a bowl until it was finished. it just made me too nauseated and sometimes brought on a pretty intense headache and i'd be rendered useless for a few hours. once it had become more brown than white or yellow, (one to a few hits, depending on the size of the pack) i took to inserting a thin metal scoop into the pipe, scraping the residue, and placing it in gelcaps to take orally. absolutely ridiculous, but the absence of that taste and subsequent nausea made it seem totally reasonable.

i snorted a fair bit as well. i always liked that it lasted longer and it didn't make me as fiendish. now, meth has always made for a rough line compared to most things, and i have some pretty bad sinus issues so it's probably worse for me than average. but it was brief and entirely tolerable, certainly worth it. eventually i even came to enjoy the sting in the same sick way that i enjoyed the prick of a needle. the congestion was always a much bigger obstacle when it came to that ROA. not so with this stuff, my fucking god. congestion was about normal as i recall, but the pain was awful. even when i was really dissatisfied with my high and was very keen to boost it, i had to psych myself up for even medium lines after i got used to each one resulting in intense, searing pain that lingered for like 30 seconds and made my eye on the side i snorted with water immediately and profusely. when a shard crushed up into more powder than i had expected, i'd wince lol. but for all the pain, it didn't make me want to throw up, so i did it as often as i could bring myself to.

other tidbits:
  • it was variously clear and cloudy/white
  • i became more anxious much faster than ever before, but given my emotional state at the time it seemed explainable
  • i became unproductive faster, and it seemed less like punding or even distraction/overstimulation and more like... lethargy. meth has always made me really happy to work hard as fuck, but that stopped very quickly. again, i attributed it to everything i was going through at the time.
  • i definitely got high, over and over. all the expected hallmarks of a meth high, including duration, were experienced. but sometimes the high simply wasn't fun, not in light of all the negative effects anyway. it reminds me now a bit of the "high" from eating Benzedrex cottons.
  • i shared quite a bit when i first got it. my friend didn't notice anything untoward, but maybe it's because i hadn't yet mixed it all together.
  • that enormous quantity that i expected to last me months disappeared in just a few weeks. i still almost don't believe it, expecting a vial i hid in my paranoia to surface while cleaning someday. but really, i'm pretty sure that i just sat and chain smoked the shit, which i had never done before, not to such an absurd degree.
  • a few days after i ran out entirely i experienced a number of intense - and intensely alarming - neurological issues. like, i expect some shit to happen while tweaking, and to linger after if it was a bad binge, especially if i took insufficient care of myself. but these started after i was done. i had some kind of dyskinesia or chorea, these spastic jerks in all my limbs that hit at random. i ran into the wall, i ran into a stone pillar. a few times i lost consciousness, including while standing up and woke when i hit the floor, once when my face hit the counter and busted my lip. i don't think this was the usual post-binge exhaustion. i've fallen asleep in the middle of all sorts of stuff after staying up too long and ofc sleep tons when a binge ends. this was different, like blacking out or fainting. this all stopped entirely maybe two days after it started, so around a week after i had run out.
  • during the period that was happening, i actually felt really good for the most part. i didn't have the depression i expected coming off such a monumental binge and i felt sharp, was in a fun, playful mood (enough to be noticed and enjoyed, since no one saw anything other than the movement issues) and... well, high. more than i had for the second half of using!
it took a few months for me to realize that i should have been much more concerned (and then distressed) by what i experienced, but i was in such a pit of despair and fear, and so desperate to escape from it, that i lost all objectivity. i've done plenty of reckless shit in my time, but even at the absolute worst of my heroin addiction, i don't think i ever so thoroughly discarded my own safety or ignored so many warning signs. it was sufficient to scare me off DNMs since, even without a local plug.

i'm bringing this up now because i was given a few hits a couple days ago and a small line a few hours ago and it got me thinking about how incredibly fucked up that experience was, especially now that i can contrast it with a fresh reminder of what half-decent speed is like: the taste and smell from smoking, the way it behaves in the bubble, the brief and enjoyable sting of a line, the high itself.

so, i'm certain that some portion of that shit was the advertised product. but it's obvious that a significant percentage was not and i would very much like to know what the hell it might have been. parts line up with various suggested agents, but others don't seem to. maybe it was a mixture of multiple things? whether cuts/adulterants or impurities, i'd love some informed ideas that fit.
 
I reagent test and do melting point tests on every batch of meth I get, and have done for over a year now (and also acetone wash anything that doesn’t pass the melting point test with flying colors). Honestly… my test results agree with this:



https://www.unodc.org/res/wdr2021/field/WDR21_Booklet_4.pdf page 54:

Shifts in manufacture of methamphetamine have continued in North America

Improved precursor control (including with the Chemical Diversion and Trafficking Act of 1988, the Domestic Chemical Diversion and Control Act of 1993 and in particular the Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act of 2005) regulating over-the-counter sales of methamphetamine precursor chemicals such as ephedrine preparations and pseudoephedrine, and ongoing efforts to dismantle laboratories seem to have acted as a deterrent to large-scale domestic methamphetamine manufacture in the United States over the last 15 years. This approach seemed to have worked well initially, as domestic groups involved in methamphetamine manufacture in the United States (largely dominated by motorcycle gangs at the time) had limited chemical skills and were not in a position to seek alternative methods of manufacture, helping to reduce the domestic market for methamphetamine in the first decade of the new millennium. Annual prevalence of methamphetamine use fell from 0.7 per cent of the population aged 12 and older in 2002 to 0.3 per cent in 2008.5 Nonetheless, since 2010, the decrease in the domestic manufacture of methamphetamine in the United States has been more than offset by increasing imports of the drug from Mexico. A number of indicators have pointed to an expansion of the methamphetamine market within the United States, both in terms of supply of (sharply rising amounts seized and falling purity-adjusted prices) and demand for (rising prevalence of use, positive tests among the general workforce, treatment admissions and deaths) the drug.


The introduction of similar legislation in Mexico in 2008 to prevent over-the-counter sales and the diversion of ephedrine preparations and pseudoephedrine for the manufacture of methamphetamine, however, has not had the same impact as in the United States; instead, it has prompted Mexican organized crime groups to switch from using the ephedrine or pseudoephedrine method to the P-2-P-based method in the manufacture of methamphetamine. Initially, this went in parallel with the manufacture of a poorer quality product, but as the use of the P-2-P method in the methamphetamine found on the United States markets increased (rising from 1 per cent in 2007 to 37 per cent in the fourth quarter of 2009), the overall potency of methamphetamine found on the United States market declined, from 96 per cent in 2007 to 64 per cent in 2009. Without further purification at that time, the use of P-2-P allowed only for the manufacture of a less potent methamphetamine-racemate instead of the more potent d-methamphetamine that could be manufactured from ephedrine or pseudoephedrine.


Manufacturers tried to compensate for this apparent shortcoming by increasing the purity of methamphetamine: the purity of the methamphetamine found on the United States market rose from about 40 per cent in 2007 to close to 70 per cent in 2009.


According to United States authorities, the chemical expertise of Mexican organized crime groups improved further and they eventually succeeded in manufacturing highly potent d-methamphetamine from P-2-P, a skill that is now also sought after by criminal groups in countries outside the Americas. The reported purity of methamphetamine in the United States rose from 92 per cent in the first half of 20118 to 97 per cent in the first quarter of 2019, while the potency of the drug rose from 76 per cents to almost 98 per cent over the same period. This indicates an improvement in the know-how of the organized crime groups and an overall increase in the supply of methamphetamine in the United States.° The analysis of seizure data also suggests that, by the first half of 2019, 99 per cent of the methamphetamine on the United States market was manufactured using the P-2-P-based method, mainly out of non-controlled precursors of P-2-P, typically imported from China.
I highly recommend acetone washing your meth if it’s not hitting right. Here’s a guide I wrote on acetone washing: https://bit.ly/3bOzBnH
And if that doesn’t improve things: https://www.swgdrug.org/Monographs/METHAMPHETAMINE.pdf section 4 here has more suggestions on how to clean up your meth.
 
I reagent test and do melting point tests on every batch of meth I get, and have done for over a year now (and also acetone wash anything that doesn’t pass the melting point test with flying colors). Honestly… my test results agree with this:



https://www.unodc.org/res/wdr2021/field/WDR21_Booklet_4.pdf page 54:


I highly recommend acetone washing your meth if it’s not hitting right. Here’s a guide I wrote on acetone washing: https://bit.ly/3bOzBnH
And if that doesn’t improve things: https://www.swgdrug.org/Monographs/METHAMPHETAMINE.pdf section 4 here has more suggestions on how to clean up your meth.


So you think it’s some other issue? Just curious what your usual dosage is?

-GC
 
I reagent test and do melting point tests on every batch of meth I get, and have done for over a year now (and also acetone wash anything that doesn’t pass the melting point test with flying colors). Honestly… my test results agree with this:



https://www.unodc.org/res/wdr2021/field/WDR21_Booklet_4.pdf page 54:


I highly recommend acetone washing your meth if it’s not hitting right. Here’s a guide I wrote on acetone washing: https://bit.ly/3bOzBnH
And if that doesn’t improve things: https://www.swgdrug.org/Monographs/METHAMPHETAMINE.pdf section 4 here has more suggestions on how to clean up your meth.

If I read that rite, it has totally changed over the years. And it will never be like it was in previous decades.
Even if someone is new to meth, it's not the same and will not be fun before you know it.
 
I don't know what it is but I just wish it was like the good ol days where skeeter was out in his trailer cooking up good all American dope with a cart full of Sudafed he stole at the store. The occasional infernos were infrequent enough to be justified by the dope quality. This new DEA dope is bunk half the time anyways.
 
I'd like to chime in if that's okay.

I have narcolepsy and have taken Vyvanse for the better part of 10 years, with mixed success but vyvanse was the best-except for Cyclazodone. I had never tried meth until 6-8 months ago, multiple DNM sources, all rather crappy compared to Vyvanse.

I not once got "stimdick" or any increased libido from meth. It was sometimes okay at keeping me awake but not productive. No psychosis as far as I could tell. I was taking 75mg orally 2-3 times a day and would sleep 8-10 hours a night, while still feeling tired during the day. I found very little benefit from meth and assumed cross-tolerance was to blame and went on to try a RC available at the time: Cyclazodone. It was very subtle, I couldn't tell I was on anything but could stay up 3-4 days and be productive (web dev). It was pulled from the market so I tried meth once more, this time sourced locally.

(Starting a new paragraph to highlight the drastic difference in effects.)
New, locally sourced meth made me for the 1st time extremely horney. Stayed awake 4 days without any difficulty, tested me response times at day 4 and was still quicker than non-drug users in my life. I allowed myself to sleep 8 hours and repeated another few days. Horney all week, no tiredness, no appetite, stimdick, and only 1 negative side effect: I heard a section of music from The Legend of Zelda playing in my heard nonstop for 48 hours. My switch was off so I knew I wasn't really hearing it, but it sure sounded like I was listening to a loop of it the entire time. I found it rather peaceful.



I ran out of locally sourced meth in the morning one day, and the evening that same day took some newly received DNM meth and it was back to the old almost worthless meth. A week of not being able to stay awake or productive or horny, I went back to locally sourced meth and got horny again. Not as much so I know tolerance is at play, but it isn't the only thing at play. I suspect it has to do with the ratios of D:L-meth.

I've not heard any more music playing in my head, nor have I stayed up more than ~30 hours since first running out of locally sourced meth. But unlike the DNM meth, I can take a larger 100mg-125mg dose and feel horny.

Haha this experience is so similar to meth binges I've had in the past. Damn I wish drugs were legal so particular 'meths' were available(ie the local one you describe). I love it when I get the horny for multiple days, quicker than normal reaction speed etc.
Speaking of which t blows my mind that drugs like meth and other stimulants can so drastically effect our reaction speeds. I've always wondered how its possible for our brain to 'operate faster', and why we can't just harness this sober. They really do 'enhance' our capabilities in some ways.
 
Speaking of which t blows my mind that drugs like meth and other stimulants can so drastically effect our reaction speeds. I've always wondered how its possible for our brain to 'operate faster', and why we can't just harness this sober. They really do 'enhance' our capabilities in some ways.
I Think it´s called Practising
 
Sure, but not by much. Racemic meth and D-meth have similar effects and duration.

This study seems to contradict this claim that L-meth is somehow unpleasant or outright negative. L-meth was less potent (active at 0.5mg/kg i.e. 30mg, but not at 0.25mg/kg i.e. 15mg, both IV) , the effects lasted about half as long as a comparable dose of D-meth, it raised blood pressure less than D, and was (most interesting of all) actually equally as intoxicating and pleasurable as D-meth. And this was across a sample of 12 users.


Even if it was not conclusively identified, a GC analysis would seperate it easily, and provide at least the percentage it was present at.

Re: generics, the FDA requires testing to show a new formulation of a pill will release 80-120% the amount of drug compared to the original, and also many of the pill fillers/binders have no documented or theoretical effects on drug absorption or metabolism, hence why we use them for pills.
So the absolute worst case would be some brands being slightly lower dose.

I personally have never experienced any major differences between pill formulations, generic or not, and see no reason why there should be, either.

If you feel otherwise, feel free to report it to the FDA or just stick to your preferred brand. No harm no foul.
Sure, but not by much. Racemic meth and D-meth have similar effects and duration.

This study seems to contradict this claim that L-meth is somehow unpleasant or outright negative. L-meth was less potent (active at 0.5mg/kg i.e. 30mg, but not at 0.25mg/kg i.e. 15mg, both IV) , the effects lasted about half as long as a comparable dose of D-meth, it raised blood pressure less than D, and was (most interesting of all) actually equally as intoxicating and pleasurable as D-meth. And this was across a sample of 12 users.


Even if it was not conclusively identified, a GC analysis would seperate it easily, and provide at least the percentage it was present at.

Re: generics, the FDA requires testing to show a new formulation of a pill will release 80-120% the amount of drug compared to the original, and also many of the pill fillers/binders have no documented or theoretical effects on drug absorption or metabolism, hence why we use them for pills.
So the absolute worst case would be some brands being slightly lower dose.

I personally have never experienced any major differences between pill formulations, generic or not, and see no reason why there should be, either.

If you feel otherwise, feel free to report it to the FDA or just stick to your preferred brand. No harm no foul.
As someone with diagnosed ADHD and having experienced part of the stimulant shortage and numerous discussions with my pharmacist and psychiatrist, there is absolutely a noticeable difference between generic manufacturers.

Case in point, Sandoz IR formulation was hands down the best one on the market - for me. Most of pandemic I went back and forth between Zenzedi (dextroamphetamine) and Teva generic IR tabs. Suddenly, Sandoz became available a couple months ago and when I got my bottle, I immediately noticed that the pills had gone from a completely flat one to one that is more bulging in the middle so that from a profile view, it is no longer completely flat. I got nervous.

Took 2 30mg tabs together and - the previous Sandoz tabs I could absolutely feel when it hit.., to the point where even 2 tabs at once could make me slightly uncomfortable/over amped but felt nothing of the sort this go around. Did some research and sure enough the new Sandoz is not the same as before. I don’t doubt that these manufacturers are meeting the minimum requirements set forth but can only assume it’s a matter of filler/inactive ingredients having an impact. But the difference is absolutely there.

On a somewhat related note, this a news about the impurities found… is it safe to say that given their precursor status and similar chemical structure that reagent testing would not be able to give any indication of these impurities. If someone had a batch containing one or both of the impurities would exhibit the identical results of what would be expected under Marquis (orange-red to brown) testing with the sample also showing a bright deep blue on Simons? Or, would there be a subtle difference to watch for?

I’m surprised that despite all these claims of N-ISO to other impurities, drugsdata has few test results where something sold as meth did not come back as meth. As with xylazine, the results posted from numerous samples of dope and heroin being submitted showed that adulterant was present in many of them, from across the country. Not so with MA.
 
On a somewhat related note, this a news about the impurities found… is it safe to say that given their precursor status and similar chemical structure that reagent testing would not be able to give any indication of these impurities. If someone had a batch containing one or both of the impurities would exhibit the identical results of what would be expected under Marquis (orange-red to brown) testing with the sample also showing a bright deep blue on Simons? Or, would there be a subtle difference to watch for?
Reagent testing only gives you information about the most abundant compound in the mixture, if something is present at 5% it will not effect the reaction noticeably
You'd ideally use a methodology like TLC (thin layer chromatography) to seperate the mixture of compounds & then stain the plate with your colour change reagent. TLC can be done in 15 minutes by an average Joe for under $200 and takes minimal skill to interpret.

But the difference is absolutely there.
There is a zen koan that seems relevant here.
Two monks were arguing about a flag. One said: "The flag is moving."
The other said: "The wind is moving."
The sixth patriach happened to be passing by. He told them: "Not the wind, not the flag; mind is moving."


It just so happens that humans have a whole lot more variability day-to-day than pills do.

The FDA does in fact check the speed of drug release and completeness thereof. There's a whole 13 page document on it, "Dissolution Testing of Immediate Release Solid Oral Dosage Forms (pdf)". They actually check how quickly the drug dissolves and sample the solution at as fast as every 5 minutes, to get a profile of how the drugs release, and generic manufacturers are supposed to match that.

I do not believe for one second that any of the typical pill excipients interfere with or slow down release. They are pretty exclusively things like cellulose and silica, which chemicals have no particular affinity to.

Besides that, if it was an issue, you could remove the problem by crushing and dissolving the pill in heated water and taking it orally as a solution, because that would remove all variability in terms of dissolving, and you could even filter off the inactive insolubles.

I’m surprised that despite all these claims of N-ISO to other impurities, drugsdata has few test results where something sold as meth did not come back as meth.
There are comparatively few of those, in comparison to the abundance of people making claims about their meth.
Just giving a quick look on DrugsData, almost all meth samples seem to be either meth or mixtures of meth and amphetamine/dimethylamphetamine (probably from synthesis using shitty methylamine).
 
I found this last year I think and I still think it has some truth to it
https://fakestimwarnings.wordpress....h-n-isopropylbenzylamine-aka-n-iso-aka-death/
Spot on with the info. I call n-iso sleepy dope or diet dope. It’s sad these days that the majority of younger folk think what is being sold is MA. I’m not that get off my lawn guy either. There is a very noticeable difference these days compared to 10 years ago. You’re not supposed to do a shot or line and fall asleep 2 hours later. They put this poison n-iso in to get bigger crystals. Bigger isn’t always better. If anyone comes across Round, pebble like and extremely bitter, keep that plug. Coming from a Chico State grad. Not living in CA anymore.
 
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