Maybe I'm in the wrong place . . .

[Woodburner]

I'm not even remotely interested in getting high, and I am very wary of anything illegal, not so much for the sake of staying legal, but because I don't trust illegal sources to be reliable or to be supplying what they say they are.

I'm here because I'm looking for something that will help with my ADHD, and I keep bumping into very informed and relevant posts on here.

Sure I've seen a few 'less well informed' opinions on what an ADHDer can or can't take safely, but I can ignore those.

I'm in the UK, and only three medications are licensed for ADHD in this country, one of which makes me sick as a dog, one helps ever so slightly, and the other, neither my psych nor my GP will prescribe . . . Nor will they prescribe anything else off license . . .

So I trawl the net, trying to find what causes the low dopamine and what could be done to help it, and I keep finding myself reading stuff on here, so I thought I might as well join up!

I'm currently looking into natural MAOIs starting with ginkgo, as I already have some from some time ago when I knew it was supposed to help with memory, but not what made it work. I hadn't read the label properly and only took one a day. It did keep the mph working a little longer, but mph's affect on me is far from typical.

I'm not terribly hopeful that taking more of it will have any more effect than mph, but I will try it until the bottle is empty. I think I also have some 'regular' quercetin, from before I knew my memory problems were due to ADHD. Someone recommended it, ISTR to help with vit C absorbtion, but why I was taking vit C I can't remember. Maybe I've got my wires crossed and it was for vit B absorbtion, or maybe the guy thought it might help with my lousy memory, and just said about vit absorbtion when I asked 'what does it do?'.

Next thing will be more turmeric in my food. I used to live in a country where almost every savoury dish had a load of turmeric in it, and at that time I had little to no ADHD type problems. It might just be coincidence and it was the extended family lifestyle that allowed me to cope so well, or it might actually have helped. It's easy enough to test though so that's next on the list. (curcumin)

Also while living abroad I fairly frequently had exposure to syrian rue, as sprinkled on a charcoal brazier as incense, but coffee is supposed to have the same MAOI in it, and that (coffee) rarely has any effect on me whatsoever, but then again, I've never drunk more than one mug a day, and only had it regularly when quetiapine was killing my brain function anyway. I'm quite keen to try it again though as I did like the smell.

Come summertime, there is some kind of wild parsley that a friend of mine says helped her when she was still at school, (and not old enough to be able to get cigarettes. Apparently, soldiers (in the trenches? POW camps?) used to smoke it when they couldn't get tobacco, but I can't find anything more about it than that, so I'll have to get my friend to point it out to me before I can ID it. A lot of things in the parsley family have psoralen in them so maybe it doesn't matter which one. Anyway, if it worked for her, maybe it'll work for me.

It's frustrating how hard it is to find what is in various herbal things, I had tried many times to find out what makes ginkgo work, but it wasn't until I looked into natural MAOIs that I found it has quercetin, also, despite having a bottle of quercetin, I didn't know it was an MAOI.

I've come across a few other things that might help but need prescription, and this post is already too long!

Thanks for reading and TIA for any helpful advice or suggestions.

 

[Bearlove]

*MOD's I hope you don't mind but I have moved this from NMI as I feel that it will get more replies over here' If you feel that it is more suited elsewhere please move it accordingly. Thanks Bear


Welcome to the site - we do have a few posts around the place on ADHD but the majority of them are based in the US where they have a better selection of meds available from the doctors.

What I will do is I will move this thread over to our European Drug Discussion section where you may get a few more informed replies from people who know the system a bit better.

If that turns out to be the wrong case you can always post in another forum.

Good luck

 

[Tranced]

Which ADHD medications are licensed in the UK, and what was your experience of getting them? And which worked? I think I have ADD/ADHD; my attention span is shocking and basically at the root of most of my problems. I'm being referred to a specialist, but the waiting list can be six months - a year.

I've tried gingko for something else and found no effect on attention... I've also tried most nootropics and modafinil and didn't find that they addressed this specific problem. IMO they're not really powerful enough to have a significant effect on ADHD. I haven't really noticed sufferers touring a cure, or anything close, anyway. But I may be wrong. I see a lot of people saying that meditation can help the most.

 

[Woodburner]

Hi Tranced, they are methylphenidate, brand names Ritalin and Medikinet etc., atomoxetine/Strattera, and dexamphetamine. Some are available in extended release form too, but the same active ingredient.

I find mph is just enough help with minor stressors, and sleep, to be worth carrying on taking. Atomoxetine was the ghastly one, and I can't get anything else that might possibly help. I think some people manage to get lisdex or adderall? the mix of l and d, anyway. I'm not sure how, as they're not licensed here.

Modafinil is one that I specifically tried to get, and really thought I might, as I have sleep problems too, but no. I am now trying to get my sleep problems sorted in the hope that I might actually get to see a neurologist and finally get something that addresses both problems.

Dex seems to be the closest thing to a cure, but it's far from perfect. I'm not totally unhappy that my psych won't prescribe it. I don't actually want a cure, I just want to be able to stick at things that need to be stuck at, and not be so prone to depression and PTSD etc. A better memory for things that need to be done and a better ability to judge the passage of time would be good too.

I've been under a psych off and on for years, and suspect that the one before last had more than an inkling that ADHD was at the root of it all, she even asked at least once, had I considered ADHD, I said no, I was a good little girl . . . It wasn't until about this time last year that I discovered that ADHD is not just hyperactive kids. Even though I never believed that it magically got better as they got older, (if it did then it would be a (fairly) normal childhood thing, and the powers that be can't have it both ways) I swallowed the media guff that only talked about 'hyperactive' and left out the attention deficit part. Plus the quetiapine made me stupid, and it took the better part of a year of not taking it to recover enough for the pennies to start dropping.

So, back to the GP saying, I think ADHD is at the root of all my problems, and asked for a referral to a specialist psych. I'd already found a private one, but I asked about NHS referral, but there was no provision at that time and she wasn't sure if or when there might be any before the end of the year. I checked that they would be ok taking over prescribing (shared care agreement) from my chosen psych, and yes that was fine.

Lots of things can cause ADHD symptoms, but ADHD is something you are born with, so if you were fine as a child, it's something else. Although I had thought I was ok as a child, I did remember various odd things, and remembering a conversation with the headmaster many years later, when he recalled me as 'the dreamer' both confirmed my suspicions that I was not 'normal' and shocked me into realising that I had a completely different view of myself and the teachers at that time. I related all those odd things that I could remember and the headmaster's comment, and got the dx that I was expecting.

With further reading, I have realised that some of those odd things are also related to my sleep problems, which I have also had since forever, and as I have drawn a blank (ok so mph helps a little) for getting my ADHD treated, I am now looking into my sleep problems. ADHD and sleep problems are so often found together, that it's currently in vogue to blame ADHD on lack of sleep, but it's BS. It might make the symptoms worse, but it's not the cause. They are linked, but it's from a common cause, not cause and effect.

Basically it's about the way our brains work and dopamine. Time to stop waffling though as I gtg now.

Try joining up on the AADDUK.proboard.com forums, be prepared for your first post not to be visible though! GL

 

[zephyr]

With trying to find natural therapies for ADD ADHD etc its important to see a dietician or nutritionist as some foods should be avoided. I dont know exactly what they are but aspartane in low calorie (blonde) beer is no good.

I thought ritalin was better for younger kids and dexamphetamine for older kids and young adults.

Drugs and diet arent the abswer alone. A complete lifestyle management is and should be managed by a doctor who has a lot of previous success and is trustworthy. Unfortunately patients dont really get to diagnose and prescribe themselves and it could take a few adjustments in meds to get the right treatment so just keep an open mind and dont set your heart on one treatment schedule only.

 

[Woodburner]

I've never been a fan of artificial sweeteners, but while most of them just taste sweet (at the right concentration), and only have a slight aftertaste, I can taste aspartame even as I'm drinking and the aftertaste is even more ghastly. Clearly it can't be that vile for everyone, or sheer lack of sales and complaints would have stopped drinks manufacturers using it long ago.

I avoid synthetic additives as much as reasonably possible anyway, but I am aware of the potential for interactions between even normal food and drugs. Grapefruit is a very interesting case, which I looked into, as I found one of SWIM's prescribed medications said not to eat grapefruit while on it, and I knew SWIM has half a grapefruit every day!

Basically, grapefruit can make some medications dramatically more effective, so, as she had already been taking the medication for a considerable time (and the grapefruit for even longer) with no ill effects, I saw no point in rocking the boat, especially as a) she has good reasons for eating grapefruit regularly, and b) if it was affecting how effective the medication was, stopping the grapefruit, (if it had any effect at all,) could make it LESS effective, so not a good idea to stop at all!

All in all, I am quite capable of doing my own research, however the 'heads up' to keep an eye on what I am eating while trying out various remedies is appreciated

Actually it's the potential for interactions between tyramine and MAOI's that finally made me sign up here, but I'll make a fresh thread or add to someone else's about that.

As children's brains (and especially ADHD children's) are still developing, it is entirely possible that Ritalin is better for young children and dex is better for adults, but, as it's not really relevant to me or anyone I know, I haven't looked into it.

The NICE guidelines for adults say to try mph first then atomoxetine, then dex, but that order is more about safety and potential for abuse (i.e. the powers that be, don't like doctors prescribing anything that has value on the black market) than effectiveness, and I have so far been unable to get any dex anyway.

I can only work with what I have or can get.

Drugs and diet are the only options available to most of us. If we have the resources to make significant alterations to our lifestyle, then ipso facto ADHD isn't causing any serious problems, so no need for any management.

(However, if you know of a doctor who has a lot of previous sucesss and is trustworthy, I would be very interested in what he (or she ofc) suggests!)

 

[Sadie]

Grapefruit has been known to potentiate certain drugs. Im not sure if it interacts with the one you're talking about though.

Also, we don't use swim in here. Just FYI. Tis a bad habit to get into.
Also, welcome to EADD.

I'll leave you in the hands of our more knowledgeable ADHD members.

Ftr, just remember that everyone is different so the advice people give suites and works for them. With out proper consultation their advice may worsen your symptoms so take advice with caution and above all seek professional medical advice.

 

[consumer]

I've never been a fan of artificial sweeteners, but while most of them just taste sweet (at the right concentration), and only have a slight aftertaste, I can taste aspartame even as I'm drinking and the aftertaste is even more ghastly. Clearly it can't be that vile for everyone, or sheer lack of sales and complaints would have stopped drinks manufacturers using it long ago.

I avoid synthetic additives as much as reasonably possible anyway, but I am aware of the potential for interactions between even normal food and drugs. Grapefruit is a very interesting case, which I looked into, as I found one of SWIM's prescribed medications said not to eat grapefruit while on it, and I knew SWIM has half a grapefruit every day!

Basically, grapefruit can make some medications dramatically more effective, so, as she had already been taking the medication for a considerable time (and the grapefruit for even longer) with no ill effects, I saw no point in rocking the boat, especially as a) she has good reasons for eating grapefruit regularly, and b) if it was affecting how effective the medication was, stopping the grapefruit, (if it had any effect at all,) could make it LESS effective, so not a good idea to stop at all!

All in all, I am quite capable of doing my own research, however the 'heads up' to keep an eye on what I am eating while trying out various remedies is appreciated

Actually it's the potential for interactions between tyramine and MAOI's that finally made me sign up here, but I'll make a fresh thread or add to someone else's about that.

As children's brains (and especially ADHD children's) are still developing, it is entirely possible that Ritalin is better for young children and dex is better for adults, but, as it's not really relevant to me or anyone I know, I haven't looked into it.

The NICE guidelines for adults say to try mph first then atomoxetine, then dex, but that order is more about safety and potential for abuse (i.e. the powers that be, don't like doctors prescribing anything that has value on the black market) than effectiveness, and I have so far been unable to get any dex anyway.

I can only work with what I have or can get.

Drugs and diet are the only options available to most of us. If we have the resources to make significant alterations to our lifestyle, then ipso facto ADHD isn't causing any serious problems, so no need for any management.

(However, if you know of a doctor who has a lot of previous sucesss and is trustworthy, I would be very interested in what he (or she ofc) suggests!)

Please dont use SWIM. It offers you zero protection, makes posts hard to read and we dont use it here.

 

[ordinary mind]

Not to mention you don't even need legal protection when it comes to combining prescribed medication with half a grapefruit.... 8)

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Not to mention you don't even need legal protection when it comes to combining prescribed medication with half a grapefruit.... 8)

Depends upon the ROA of said grapefruit. If it's rectal, then that might be in contravention of the 'correct use of fruit act: 1972'.

 

[Sadie]

Please keep posts on topic as op has a genuine question.

Cheers maties xx

 

[Woodburner]

Yeah, I definitely think I'm in the wrong place. I only know two meanings for SWIM, 'see what I mean' and 'someone else, not me', but you folk clearly have some other meaning of it, to do with legality? But, as @ordinary mind points out, there is nothing illegal about having half a grapefruit for breakfast while on prescribed medication anyway.

In future, for simplicity's sake, I will refer to any third party as 'a friend' regardless of their actual connection to me. Or maybe I'll just push off.

 

[Sadie]

I wouldnt let the swim thing put you off finding answers or at least some advice from those who have similar issues.

 

[Woodburner]

I am quite active on another forums, for folks with ADHD, but they're not terribly knowledgeable about how and why various medications etc. do or don't help. There are a few who have dabbled on the 'dark side', but apart from discovering that 'stimulants' simply make them more normal, even at doses that give everyone else a high, and subsequently discovering from that, that they have ADHD, they don't seem so have learned much or done any useful experimentation.
It does worry me a bit, in that it seems to indicate that even amongst illegal substances, there is nothing better than dex. (To help with the downsides of ADHD)

I feel that this is probably a good time to stress the fact that I am acutely aware of the fact that the effects of something on one person has absolutely no bearing on how it will affect another.
So, while there is a high probability that I could safely take dex (at an appropriate level) long term, without getting addicted, it is still a risk (as are all the other side effects).

That sounds neat and dandy, but it's not really. The fact that it gives normal people highs and gets them addicted makes it extremely hard to get hold of even for those who actually need it as medication.

And there is an even worse flip side than that. Many things that the doctors hand out like smarties are actually bad for us (ADHDers), and some are downright dangerous. I have first hand experience of this!

 

[Wealdstone Wonder]

I'm prescribed dex but I rarely ever take it. I'm fond of meph and coke, so it tends to screw with my tolerance to both. It's nice to have some knocking around for emergencies, but I never make a really big dent in my monthly supply. I had no idea it was in such demand!

 

[Doxy]

Im hoping to be prescribed Addreall 30mg on Tuesday. 400gbp in Harley Street, free with ehic in the netherlands. wish me luck. ritalin 30's give me anxiety but a good buzzz.8)

 

[Woodburner]

Im hoping to be prescribed Addreall 30mg on Tuesday. 400gbp in Harley Street, free with ehic in the netherlands. wish me luck. ritalin 30's give me anxiety but a good buzzz.8)

Did you get a buzz every time?
I only got a slight buzz twice, when increasing dose for the first time, once from 10 to 20, and once from 20 to 40 (iirc) never again, even after going back to nothing then going up again, nor when I accidentally took 80 instead of 40.

Or did you mean tinnitus buzzing?

 

[Woodburner]

I'm prescribed dex but I rarely ever take it. I'm fond of meph and coke, so it tends to screw with my tolerance to both. It's nice to have some knocking around for emergencies, but I never make a really big dent in my monthly supply. I had no idea it was in such demand!

As I understand it, dex was what people took (illicitly) before meth was developed. Unfortunately the drop in interest in illicit use, has not had the knock on effect of making it any easier to get legally.

 

[Wealdstone Wonder]

I think dex was only abused in the distant past before doctors realised it was being used recreationally and stopped prescribing it. It's all whizz in this country. Illicit sulphate. Hardly any meth to speak of over here except through DNMs.

 

[consumer]

Im hoping to be prescribed Addreall 30mg on Tuesday. 400gbp in Harley Street, free with ehic in the netherlands. wish me luck. ritalin 30's give me anxiety but a good buzzz.8)

Congratulations on making a post that actually makes sense for once. Keep up the good work.