Market H vs Pure

[dalpat077]

We could discuss this for another ten posts!

I think keeping it together is more responsible.

And if the OP has any objections (which I don’t see happening though) then you’ve already given them the option. And what’s more: you can blame me so you’re off the hook!

Or edit the title so as to be more encompassing. Seen that done before.

 

[JessFR]

Hmmm....... well, in trying to split it up, it really does seem like it's only gonna be more messy and even harder to follow, which is the exact reverse of the point of staying on topic.

ok, @Jay5707 if you want me to cut out all this off topic stuff since early on and move it to another thread, let me know. For now I'll leave it as is. if I do split it I gotta figure out a less messy way anyway and my brain isn't very focused right now.

 

[catchthedragon]

About 25 years ago I got busted. Then again about 15 years ago. Heroin for sale, conspiracy to blah. blah. As part of the proceedings the Govt. had to present an analysis of the purity of the dope. It was as good as or a little better than anything going around at the time. I remember quite clearly the first lot came back between 17 and %18. Second time was somewhere around %19. If anyone started selling 50 to %60 dope around here they would run out of ambulances very quickly. I dunno, I have found that people tend to wank on a bit about how strong Their dope is.

 

[dalpat077]

If anyone started selling 50 to %60 dope around here they would run out of ambulances very quickly. I dunno, I have found that people tend to wank on a bit about how strong Their dope is.

Funny you should mention this. This seems to be the one drug where there's a limit to what's prudent? In other words: a non-destructive or safe and palatable diluent is almost a necessity? Noting that there's a difference of course between a diluent and a cut or bulking agent (the two latter being to simply increase profits no matter the cost or harm to the user). I could be totally out of line here though. And I'd be keen to get the take of a user on what I've just noted. I suppose if you know what you're doing and titrate the stuff correctly: well then it shouldn't matter and the purer the better then obviously?

Thing that I'm trying to figure out is why crystalline Caffeine is a requirement/part of the manufacturing process of No. 3?

Frightening thing though: this stuff can change hands (and be cut) several times before it's on the street (don't quote me on this but I think it was in that DEA report where it was noted that it could be anywhere between 6 and 9 different stops along the way).

See and for me: always had this idealistic idea that putting uncut whatever direct to the end user is the way it should be. Fucked as it may sound: that's harm reduction (crude form as it may be). But with this shit: I'm not so sure about that. Pretty much hence my asking how a user knows that today's score is different from last week's score type of thing. Seems to me that simply eyeballing and basing a hit on their usual amount is a bit of a gamble? Especially what with the proliferation of Fentanyl nowadays.

Interestingly enough: something called "Congo Red Paper" is used to test purity but this during the final production phase (an additional refinement stage undertaken by some that actually give a shit about their product) of No. 4. Not sure if such test if backward compatible (for want of a better phrase).

 

[JessFR]

See and for me: always had this idealistic idea that putting uncut whatever direct to the end user is the way it should be. Fucked as it may sound: that's harm reduction (crude form as it may be).

With how strong I've seen heroin get, I don't think that'd be a good idea at all.

Even now, it would be sooooo easy here for a naive user to overdose. An opioid naive user can get really fucked up with a quantity of heroin so small you can barely see it.

Seems to me that simply eyeballing and basing a hit on their usual amount is a bit of a gamble? Especially what with the proliferation of Fentanyl nowadays.

In a market with fentanyl causing strength to spike all over the place, I'd agree.

But here, in Australia? No. I've never found heroin here to vary to a degree I find dangerous.

In theory yea I should probably be more careful. It's just. It'd take the strength to spike probably at least 3 fold to put me at risk. And in all the time I've used here, I've never found heroin to vary in strength anything like to that degree.

You could probably make an argument that I'm being complacent. But I don't think it's surprising that if you've never found heroin to vary that much that you wouldn't be inclined to waste it having test shots with every new batch. So I don't. Only when I haven't used for a while to check if my tolerance is what I expect.

 

[NewGenZetas]

It's frustrating how many (usually) north American posters insist "fentanyl is everywhere all heroin is fentanyl!"

North America is NOT "everywhere".

And it's not like they aren't aware of other countries I've had people who don't live in Australia argue with me that fentanyl is in Australia.

Well it might not be widespread Fentanyl is in Australia.

Is there fentanyl contamination in the Australian illicit drug market?

This research investigates fentanyl use among police detainees participating in the Drug Use Monitoring in Australia program. Three percent of respondents tested positive to fentanyl and/or norfentanyl during urinalysis, and 11 percent reported lifetime fentanyl use. Nonprescribed fentanyl use...

www.aic.gov.au

 

[JessFR]

Well it might not be widespread Fentanyl is in Australia.

Is there fentanyl contamination in the Australian illicit drug market?

This research investigates fentanyl use among police detainees participating in the Drug Use Monitoring in Australia program. Three percent of respondents tested positive to fentanyl and/or norfentanyl during urinalysis, and 11 percent reported lifetime fentanyl use. Nonprescribed fentanyl use...

www.aic.gov.au

I've already seen that exact publication before. When I clicked to download the pdf it actually asked if I wanted to download it again over my existing copy.

Of course it exists in Australia, but that doesn't mean you have much of any realistic change getting fentanyl if you buy heroin.

 

[G_Chem]

You talking about in Australia?

I relapsed last year and have used probably a few dozen batches of heroin over the last year. I can't say it seemed different to how I remember from before 2018. So I doubt any of it had fentanyl in it.

From a lot of 2015-16ish I was on methadone at a public clinic and they tested me every month. It was inconvenient but one neat thing is since I was using that whole time I'd see if anything I used had a give adulterants.

Over that year or so, I once had heroin with an adulterant. It was a benzo, I forget which but it wasn't one of the usual ones like diazepam or alprazolam.

Other than that I never tested positive for other abusable psychoactive drugs.

Soo yea I don't think fentanyl is very common in Australian heroin even to this day.

And I hope (probably futilely) that is never does. As I said I like knowing I can always go back to it.

It's funny cause my life is still way better now than when I quit, but addiction has a way of making you forget the bad and get nostalgic, and well, I wanna know I always have the option to get back on heroin.

It's stupid.

I still have the same pack of needles from when I stopped about 12yrs ago now. There’s comfort knowing if I ever need it/them, it’s there.. People that haven’t lived it will never understand.

-GC

 

[G_Chem]

I was going to post this before, but I often feel like this is “bragging” at times plus idealizing a horrible time in my life... But for a good while I had access to product I’m certain was in the high 90’s% based on dosages matching perfectly with the literature, as well as purification results. This was also long before fentanyl became a problem in H.

This heroin never made it down the line, this was a family crew that ran the city and would only deal with people they felt were stable. Aka not that mess of a junky bombing their phone out n shit. They wouldn’t talk to you for less than 100, but preferred 200-300 at least.

On two occasions I saw the results of what that purity of heroin can do to someone.

One time we were desperate for money so decided to sell some to a guy to get some for us. I remember my buddy taking out a laughable sized amount and me being like “dude come on, seriously?!?” He then cut it to oblivion or so I thought. Thank god he didn’t listen to me cuz the guys friends called us a couple hours later to tell us he fell out, this was a dude that liked to brag about his tolerance too, one of those types..

The other time was a guy with no tolerance, he wanted to try it and IV no less. We tried to scrape the smallest amount we could into the cooker, it couldn’t have been only a couple mg or so. The dude went out immediately but thankfully just a heavy nod and was back in 15.

I learned that for starters, no amount of pure heroin is safe for people with lower tolerances. As we found out, you cant manage a piece safely small enough.

The plus side is that once you figure out how to use it properly, me and my buddy never once came even remotely close to OD. Sure we were nodded all the time, but there was never this question of “how pure is it gonna be?” It was always the same in that regard.

For better or worse, that stuff is long gone. The family got taken down due to the stupidity of a couple guys, and far as I know heroin of that caliber never really came back after.

-GC

 

[the_ketaman]

Mixing Benzo's and coming back from relapses is where I've had most of my problems. But I do feel some of you are being super complacent.
I've been IV'ing heroin for 15 years and have OD'd at least 10 times. Yeah I'm a dumbass and greedy. Used to do Ritalin/heroin/Xanax or meth/heroin/xanax speedballs but I've also dropped from like 1/3 of a point of H on its ownand it was one of the worse ones too.
The heroin here varies a lot. One source sells white powder that stinks of Anhydrous but it shit, then other rock with very little smell but very strong.
I need at least .2-.3 atm but have had really strong gear pop up occasionally.

My ORT clinic has literature saying most of the fent gear turns purple when you mix it up. I haven't actually seen this but I've had quite a bit of tar towards the end of last year that eventually made mine and other people arms begin hurting and mixed up dirty AF. So really if we're getting tar we could be getting anything.

 

[JessFR]

I was going to post this before, but I often feel like this is “bragging” at times plus idealizing a horrible time in my life... But for a good while I had access to product I’m certain was in the high 90’s% based on dosages matching perfectly with the literature, as well as purification results. This was also long before fentanyl became a problem in H.

This heroin never made it down the line, this was a family crew that ran the city and would only deal with people they felt were stable. Aka not that mess of a junky bombing their phone out n shit. They wouldn’t talk to you for less than 100, but preferred 200-300 at least.

On two occasions I saw the results of what that purity of heroin can do to someone.

One time we were desperate for money so decided to sell some to a guy to get some for us. I remember my buddy taking out a laughable sized amount and me being like “dude come on, seriously?!?” He then cut it to oblivion or so I thought. Thank god he didn’t listen to me cuz the guys friends called us a couple hours later to tell us he fell out, this was a dude that liked to brag about his tolerance too, one of those types..

The other time was a guy with no tolerance, he wanted to try it and IV no less. We tried to scrape the smallest amount we could into the cooker, it couldn’t have been only a couple mg or so. The dude went out immediately but thankfully just a heavy nod and was back in 15.

I learned that for starters, no amount of pure heroin is safe for people with lower tolerances. As we found out, you cant manage a piece safely small enough.

The plus side is that once you figure out how to use it properly, me and my buddy never once came even remotely close to OD. Sure we were nodded all the time, but there was never this question of “how pure is it gonna be?” It was always the same in that regard.

For better or worse, that stuff is long gone. The family got taken down due to the stupidity of a couple guys, and far as I know heroin of that caliber never really came back after.

-GC

It can be hard to draw the line between bragging and just honestly talking about your experience. But to me your description seems like the latter to me. I don't get the sense they it's bragging at all.

I would bet a lot of us who've been in the heroin world for a while have at least at some point experienced a period of time where we were getting better heroin than average.

I learned that for starters, no amount of pure heroin is safe for people with lower tolerances. As we found out, you cant manage a piece safely small enough.

This really deserves to be repeated. Anything close to pure heroin is insanely potent to people with little to no tolerance.

I don't think the street heroin here in Australia is anywhere near pure. My guess would be somewhere in the 70%" range but that could be way off. I just know it can get a lot purer than it has been in the years I've been using.

In spite of that, I've seen people with little or no tolerance, and I remember myself when I had little tolerance, bing able to get high off an amount of heroin that looked like a few specs of sand. It's crazy how potent it is and anyone who doesn't have existing experience or tolerance should exercise extreme caution when using heroin if it's their first time or it's been a while and their tolerance may have dropped.

 

[Blankenstein]

Figured this was the most recent Australian heroin thread to ask this question. Is the white heroin in Australia snortable?

 

[JessFR]

Figured this was the most recent Australian heroin thread to ask this question. Is the white heroin in Australia snortable?

Should be. It's extremely water soluble so I don't see why it wouldn't be.

Everyone I've known has IV'ed it but yeah, if you can afford it and don't have a huge tolerance (in which case please be careful) it should work.

White Australian heroin usually comes as a solid compressed rock, so depending on how much you buy and who you're buying from it may either be a completely solid rock, or broken up as pieces of rock, in which case you'd wanna crush it up first. But I don't see why it'd be any issue other than that.

White Australian heroin is very expensive but can be very good. I dunno what your opioid experience is like, but start small.

If you're not completely confident in what you can handle, in addition to starting small, have someone with you, if you can afford heroin in Australia producing a naloxone kit should also be no trouble.

 

[Blankenstein]

Should be. It's extremely water soluble so I don't see why it wouldn't be.

Everyone I've known has IV'ed it but yeah, if you can afford it and don't have a huge tolerance (in which case please be careful) it should work.

White Australian heroin usually comes as a solid compressed rock, so depending on how much you buy and who you're buying from it may either be a completely solid rock, or broken up as pieces of rock, in which case you'd wanna crush it up first. But I don't see why it'd be any issue other than that.

White Australian heroin is very expensive but can be very good. I dunno what your opioid experience is like, but start small.

If you're not completely confident in what you can handle, in addition to starting small, have someone with you, if you can afford heroin in Australia producing a naloxone kit should also be no trouble.

Thanks Jess for reply.

yeh I do use pharmaceutical opiates a fair bit and the price/tolerance is the issue. For what I spend on Oxys or hydromorphone I figure it’s a fair bit cheaper, but I don’t want to use needles. Have with meth a couple of times years ago, but don’t want to go down that path.

I have used heroin before (beige), but that was a long time ago.

not sure if I’m going to go down that route. I like knowing exactly what is in a pill, but yeh it’s a lot of money to get a buzz for a few hours.

But yeh thanks for responding. I would be getting some naloxone if I decide to do it.

 

[JessFR]

Thanks Jess for reply.

yeh I do use pharmaceutical opiates a fair bit and the price/tolerance is the issue. For what I spend on Oxys or hydromorphone I figure it’s a fair bit cheaper, but I don’t want to use needles. Have with meth a couple of times years ago, but don’t want to go down that path.

I have used heroin before (beige), but that was a long time ago.

not sure if I’m going to go down that route. I like knowing exactly what is in a pill, but yeh it’s a lot of money to get a buzz for a few hours.

But yeh thanks for responding. I would be getting some naloxone if I decide to do it.

Well. I've got some good news, and some advice.

The good news is Australian heroin in my experience is pretty consistent, it's generally not adulterated with fentanyl, in fact active cuts of any kind in my experience aren't especially common.

I'm not sure how long ago you're talking and if you're talking about Australia, there is heroin in Australia that is beige which is extremely similar to the white heroin (there is also a somewhat weaker brownish heroin around in the last couple years which isn't water soluble without an acid).

If you're talking longer back than the last few years odds are the beige you're talking about is also the one I've seen, which is very similar to white. Behaves the same, similar potency, still highly water soluble.

Ok so my advice is, this isn't a good idea.

Here's the problem, yes, at first it may well be cheaper, but if you're at all prone to opioid addiction, and it certainly sounds like you are, it's highly likely you'll just end up using more till you end up paying the same amount anyway.

In my experience, people tend to end up using whatever they can afford.

I would ask yourself if you were once using less pills than you are now, if so, chances are you'll end up using more heroin too till it has a similar affect for the same price.

Also, although you've said you aren't planning to inject. The road to hell in addiction is paved with tiny steps forward.

This is probably an example of one, switching from pills to heroin. And you may just snort it for a while, but one day the question may be "maybe I could get better value injecting?".

Addiction has really subtle affects on your mind and can be extremely hard to detect in the moment.

I'm not gonna tell you not to go forward with what you're planning, just that I think, based on my experience, that it should be given the utmost of consideration as to whether this is necessary.

I say it purely out of concern for you and out of my own experiences in heroin addiction. It can start really small yet wind up taking everything from you.

I hope you'll give this some consideration. If you still plan to keep using though if you have any further questions you're more than welcome to start a thread, here or basic drug discussion or the other drugs subforum perhaps.

It's highly unlikely you'll face any judgement (it is however highly likely you'll hear many other voices of concern), but in the end any questions you have about safely using I'm sure you'll find good answers too.

If you do post in one of the other areas though I'd clarify that you're in Australia. A lot of users outside Australia assume fentanyl is a problem everywhere and don't realize that of the many risks involved with using heroin in Australia, fortunately this one isn't particularly likely yet.

Take care man. I dunno what your tolerance was like when you previously used heroin, but if it was Australian heroin then I'm assure you're aware how strong it can be to someone without a heavy tolerance. And pills can still be fairly low on the tolerance scale all things considered.

If you're not sure I'd start very small, like maybe 10mg and see how you feel.

 

[Blankenstein]

Well. I've got some good news, and some advice.

The good news is Australian heroin in my experience is pretty consistent, it's generally not adulterated with fentanyl, in fact active cuts of any kind in my experience aren't especially common.

I'm not sure how long ago you're talking and if you're talking about Australia, there is heroin in Australia that is beige which is extremely similar to the white heroin (there is also a somewhat weaker brownish heroin around in the last couple years which isn't water soluble without an acid).

If you're talking longer back than the last few years odds are the beige you're talking about is also the one I've seen, which is very similar to white. Behaves the same, similar potency, still highly water soluble.

Ok so my advice is, this isn't a good idea.

Here's the problem, yes, at first it may well be cheaper, but if you're at all prone to opioid addiction, and it certainly sounds like you are, it's highly likely you'll just end up using more till you end up paying the same amount anyway.

In my experience, people tend to end up using whatever they can afford.

I would ask yourself if you were once using less pills than you are now, if so, chances are you'll end up using more heroin too till it has a similar affect for the same price.

Also, although you've said you aren't planning to inject. The road to hell in addiction is paved with tiny steps forward.

This is probably an example of one, switching from pills to heroin. And you may just snort it for a while, but one day the question may be "maybe I could get better value injecting?".

Addiction has really subtle affects on your mind and can be extremely hard to detect in the moment.

I'm not gonna tell you not to go forward with what you're planning, just that I think, based on my experience, that it should be given the utmost of consideration as to whether this is necessary.

I say it purely out of concern for you and out of my own experiences in heroin addiction. It can start really small yet wind up taking everything from you.

I hope you'll give this some consideration. If you still plan to keep using though if you have any further questions you're more than welcome to start a thread, here or basic drug discussion or the other drugs subforum perhaps.

It's highly unlikely you'll face any judgement (it is however highly likely you'll hear many other voices of concern), but in the end any questions you have about safely using I'm sure you'll find good answers too.

If you do post in one of the other areas though I'd clarify that you're in Australia. A lot of users outside Australia assume fentanyl is a problem everywhere and don't realize that of the many risks involved with using heroin in Australia, fortunately this one isn't particularly likely yet.

Take care man. I dunno what your tolerance was like when you previously used heroin, but if it was Australian heroin then I'm assure you're aware how strong it can be to someone without a heavy tolerance. And pills can still be fairly low on the tolerance scale all things considered.

If you're not sure I'd start very small, like maybe 10mg and see how you feel.

Just though I’d check in and say i haven’t gone down this path yet. Have come close, but been using lots tramadol/tapentadol/oxy/vals/clons/bupe patches instead. So still been zonked since I got back to town on Saturday night.

that’s my little update...

once this lock down ends I’ll drive out to work for 3.5 weeks and try and get shit back on track.

 

[west.heidelberg]

I haven’t seen ‘market’ since November

 

[Stayfloating]

Yea no. In the US sure. Here in Australia? No. (to clarify, I mean no as in it's unlikely fent)

The difference is the market heroin has been cut a lot more. That's it. It'll be less strong (and as such will be cheaper) because it's been bulked up with cut.

Lion stamp is just a "brand" of heroin common in australia, it's a generally solid white #4 heroin that dissolves easily at room temperature without acid or heat. Usually it comes either as a rock or rocky power.

It's essentially the same white rock heroin you find all over the place in Australia and have for years.

There's other heroins around, including a #3 that's shown up in recent years, I'm not aware of any of them being secretly cut with fentanyl here yet. That's fortunately still not a major problem in Australian heroin. At least not that I've experienced.

Was thinking the same and I’m not even knowledgable. Australia isn’t completely taken over by satan yet smh. Don’t ya’ll have a strong intervention rate whether MMT or Bup? Plus, I mean to list u with Asia is a bit off the nose, no? In other words u guys aren’t getting cheap grams of heroin with a “lion stamp” quality right? Are u even getting cheap stepped on H? Anyway I’d imagine they cracking down harder than in Asia...they just cut your hand off there but no government intervention/help!
fent is an American issue because Americans will go to the next drug dealer with the “good”. Oh your buddy turned blue and had to shoot him with a sub to revive him? ”So then its good right?”, replies a friend after sharing the experience. I’m sorry, but I picture Australia with like problems w diversion of methadone medication I know your inner cities must have their issues but tell me theres some truth to this. It’s an island. Tell me the authorities aren’t doing their part on a populace that wasn’t hit with OxyContin/dr shopping epidemic 20 years ago. I mean, I don’t picture Sydney with projects u can go and cop H. Anyway, glad there’s no fent in whatever ya’ll get. Not for nothing but most street fent is made in Asia..just saying

 

[andyturbo]

My source of Heroin is a large distributer who supplys 3 different types of heroin in Australia:

1. #4 Lion UGlobe
2. #4 cut to 70% (aka market)
3. #3 Afghanistan

 

[Specified]

Mixing Benzo's and coming back from relapses is where I've had most of my problems. But I do feel some of you are being super complacent.
I've been IV'ing heroin for 15 years and have OD'd at least 10 times. Yeah I'm a dumbass and greedy. Used to do Ritalin/heroin/Xanax or meth/heroin/xanax speedballs but I've also dropped from like 1/3 of a point of H on its ownand it was one of the worse ones too.
The heroin here varies a lot. One source sells white powder that stinks of Anhydrous but it shit, then other rock with very little smell but very strong.
I need at least .2-.3 atm but have had really strong gear pop up occasionally.

My ORT clinic has literature saying most of the fent gear turns purple when you mix it up. I haven't actually seen this but I've had quite a bit of tar towards the end of last year that eventually made mine and other people arms begin hurting and mixed up dirty AF. So really if we're getting tar we could be getting anything.

Lol im greedy too lol