MAOI's reduce the effects of LSD?

[swilow]

Yep willow baby, that is what I'm saying. The visuals you get on oral DMT are unique and very memorable.

which categorically informs you that it is not possible for the human body to ever turn psilocybin into DMT

I'm not telling you how it works willo, I'm telling you what happens. Oral DMT and mushrooms and moclo create exactly the same effect. The lord works in mysterious ways his woodwork to perform.

I think that moclobemide somehow turns DMT into psilocybin! :D

 

[Ismene]

The human brain isn't quite as simple as that tho willow - it doesn't have one receptor marked "psilocybin" and one marked "DMT". Different effects will be experienced with drugs in conjunction than by themselves. Moclobemide in conjunction with psilocybin means your brain experiences the two as DMT.

 

[red22]

So how much moclo did you take? Have you simply overdosed on moclo rather than enhanced any psychedelic effects?

Yes, I already said that. The moclo-only instance wasn't as high as the overdose, but it was certainly still way more than I should have taken (over 600 mg). No effect.

 

[ebola?]

Moclobemide in conjunction with psilocybin means your brain experiences the two as DMT.

In any direct sense, it doesn't, though the two experiences might be very similar. Actually, scratch that. I found the alteration of the psilocybin experience conferred by p. harmala to be very unlike my experiences on DMT. I found psilocybin + p. harmala to have visuals with more earthy colors and...kind of 'soupy' and sedated. I found dmt itself to be very electric and neon.

ebola

 

[Ismene]

How many times have you taken oral DMT and moclobemide and how many times have you taken psilocybin and moclobemide?

P-harmala is a very different drug to moclobemide. It's not valid to compare the two.

 

[Solipsis]

Of course there are reasons why the experiences might seem very similar, I'm sure the resemblence may seem uncanny but that is not the same as saying that it must be because the exact chemicals are acting here. In that sense the requirements to make them indistinguishable are basically met. We must always acknowledge bias effects like the placebo effect, at the end of the day you are trying to prove something that scientifically / logically doesn't make sense on the basis of subjective experience that are subject to said bias effects.
It flies right in the face of healthy skepsis to jump to the conclusion that the exact drug / metabolite must be acting here. The human mind is just blind to certain mechanisms and the mind is also blind to that blindness. Time and time again people have given accounts of things wildly out of the ordinary and they refuse to other explanations basically on the premise that you just can't make that shit up and the more sound explanations sound too intricate to accept. What happened to Shulgin that give him a lifetime fascination for psychopharmacology continues to be incredible and countless people convinced of their alien abductions as well as many other hot topics for skeptics remain hard to debate or remedy.

Your explanation that it must be the same active agent is not 'necessary' as is said, there are other factors that are the same like MAO being inhibited and N-N-DMT psilocin both being (close derivatives of DMT) to begin with of course. So until rock-hard solid proof like tox screen analyses can be dissertated I'm gonna go with Occam's razor anyway.

On topic: is it possible MAOIs can have interactions with the downstream effects of LSD i.e. resulting serotonin level changes - which would in this case lead to considerably enhanced fluctuations of thos levels and the subjective effects on conconsciousness they represent... thus explaning why there are drug-drug interactions being reported?

 

[Ismene]

There are other things too solipsis apart from the visuals and the experience being the same. I can take psilocybin every week and trip fine, but if I take moclo and psilocybin every week then I quickly get no effect whatsoever. Just like what happens when I take oral DMT. So even it was placebomine creating the same trip, obviously something very definate is happening to stop the brain registering psilocybin as psilocybin.

 

[Solipsis]

Again, tolerance effects from taking moclobemide + mushrooms weekly vs. taking oral DMT (+MAOI!) weekly are likely to have a lot in common because they have the principle of taking archetypal tryptamines potentiated / activated by MAOIs in common. Can someone help me out here? Or us, I mean...

 

[Ismene]

It was seriously disappointing when I found out I couldn't trip on moclo and psilocybin every week. You don't get the intense nausea that you get from freebase DMT so I was rubbing my hands with glee and looking forward to the following week. It's more like 6-8 weeks between trips to get the full explosive effect.

 

[amanitadine]

It's more than that they feel alike tho - they're exactly the same. The open eye visuals of oral DMT are unique and very different to those of psilocybin.



Me neither Ron, but I've eaten as much oral DMT as any human being in history and psilocybin plus moclobemide is indistuingishable from oral DMT. It's not "sort of a bit like it" - it IS an oral DMT trip. Once you've seen oral DMT visuals you know them instantly and they can't be recreated on any other drug except DMT or psilocybin plus moclobemide.

This surprises me Issy! You are usually the bastion of rational thought when it comes to subjective effects, placebomines, or suugestamines. Whether it be the "differences between batches of LSD" or "strains of mushrooms" your logic is always on point.

Jus because you perceive the visuals to be the same between the two does not mean your body is magically converting psilocybin to DMT. All of our knowledge on the metabolism of psilocybin suggests no such thing.

Although I don't place any real wealth in the subjective differences of various psychedelic experiences, I for one find oral DMT and psilocybin + moclemebide to be markedly different beasts.

 

[red22]

Jus because you perceive the visuals to be the same between the two does not mean your body is magically converting psilocybin to DMT. All of our knowledge on the metabolism of psilocybin suggests no such thing.

Although I don't place any real wealth in the subjective differences of various psychedelic experiences, I for one find oral DMT and psilocybin + moclemebide to be markedly different beasts.

And I'll point out that all psychedelic experiences are relatively similar and that psilocybin and DMT are very molecularly similar.

 

[Ismene]

Jus because you perceive the visuals to be the same between the two does not mean your body is magically converting psilocybin to DMT.

Does it need to? Or does it simply mean your receptors handle it in a different way?

All of our knowledge on the metabolism of psilocybin suggests no such thing

That's not saying much tho - our knowledge of psilocybin and moclobemide is very, very small. Ditto oral DMT and moclobemide There's me and about 3 other guys who've ever done both. That's the sum total of the "research".

One question for you tho amanita, what's your take on why psilocybin taken alone can be taken week after week whereas psilocybin + moclo becomes inactive within a week or two? Clearly the psilocybin isn't being recognised by the brain as psilocybin. So SOMETHING is altering how the psilocybin works. If you don't believe me - try it.

I for one find oral DMT and psilocybin + moclemebide to be markedly different beasts.

How often have you taken oral DMT and moclo and psilocybin and moclo? And what difference do you notice?

And I'll point out that all psychedelic experiences are relatively similar and that psilocybin and DMT are very molecularly similar.

Yeah but when you've taken psilocybin thousands of times and oral DMT and moclo hundreds of times you can tell the difference.

And to be honest I'm not sure all psychedelic experiences are relatively similar. I know there are "studies" that purport to show this but that's more down to the limitation of the questions they asked. If you ask a question like "Did colours seem brighter" then yeah, all psychedelic experiences are similar.