Made Freebase - looks different from first time?

[citypress100]

Hi gang - made some freebase today:

Can anyone give their opinions just from looks?

https://ibb.co/7k4QrxN

Appreciate there's only so far a gander can help but it looks different from the first time I tried, but this time used more powder to begin with

Method - used ammonia to convert to freebase, then added hexane, a lot of precipitate stayed undissolved, then heated at 50'c in waterbath and everything dissolved. Then water washed the hexane in a funnel multiple times. Separated the hexane layer after and evaporated to give my freebase. Freed the crystals from the side of the beaker with a razor which is why they the chunks look smooth on one side - but it just looks different from first time.

Any feedback appreciated!

 

[deficiT]

DC ------> OD

 

[G_Chem]

Even a few percent difference in residual cut or maybe some difference in alkaloid profile can cause a substance to crystallize different.

The real question is, how does it feel when you smoke it?

Your technique seems sound enough to me..

-GC

 

[G_Chem]

I’ll follow up with, all the really good freebase I’ve had in the past, when washed extensively… Looked kinda like that, nothing like the rocks on the street. More like crystalline snowflakes that seemed more powdery once dry. Shit would blow your head off tho, and had very little in the way of comedown compared to street crack.

-GC

 

[citypress100]

I’ll follow up with, all the really good freebase I’ve had in the past, when washed extensively… Looked kinda like that, nothing like the rocks on the street. More like crystalline snowflakes that seemed more powdery once dry. Shit would blow your head off tho, and had very little in the way of comedown compared to street crack.

-GC

Sadly wasn't as good as I hoped. I'm based in the UK and basically everything is cut with Ephedrine HC over here, which has very similar polarity to coke HCl. I'm struggling to find a good way of separating the two.

Tried reducing to freebase and then dissolving the base of coke and ephedrine in Hexane, then water washing it, but ephedrine base is only 'sparingly soluble' in water - something like 1g to 100ml.

I water washed a 2g sample 7 times and still couldn't get it all out. It's a nightmare cut!

 

[G_Chem]

You may be better off doing boiling hot water washes on the freebase as is, not dissolved in hexane. Try 5x boiling hot water washes, in a vial where you can shake it like crazy.

-GC

 

[citypress100]

You may be better off doing boiling hot water washes on the freebase as is, not dissolved in hexane. Try 5x boiling hot water washes, in a vial where you can shake it like crazy.

-GC

Interesting idea - have you tried it before?

 

[G_Chem]

Interesting idea - have you tried it before?

Yes sir. Many times.

Back in the day when I smoked the stuff, I’d make freebase with baking soda then do 5-6 boiling hot water washes on it with distilled water of course. The first few the product will be clumpy, probably from residual baking soda holding onto water. But as the washes proceed it’ll go to like snowflake crystals that float around after each shake.

I’d always use a vial so I could cap it then shake the hell out of it. I think the agitation was key along with the very hot water. Freebase has very low solubility in even boiling water, whereas most freebase psychoactive cuts not quite as extreme. Don’t try to stir it as the stir rod will get coated.

I’d use an IV syringe to pull off the water with each wash, this way minimal amount of freebase was pulled off too. Trying to decant or use a glass stopper wasn’t effective for separating. Always better to leave a little water then pull off freebase.

After my last wash I’d then dump it out onto a plate using fresh water to wash it out. Then dry quickly by a fan. Should dry overnight.

I have a write up on here somewhere.

-GC

 

[citypress100]

Yes sir. Many times.

Back in the day when I smoked the stuff, I’d make freebase with baking soda then do 5-6 boiling hot water washes on it with distilled water of course. The first few the product will be clumpy, probably from residual baking soda holding onto water. But as the washes proceed it’ll go to like snowflake crystals that float around after each shake.

I’d always use a vial so I could cap it then shake the hell out of it. I think the agitation was key along with the very hot water. Freebase has very low solubility in even boiling water, whereas most freebase psychoactive cuts not quite as extreme. Don’t try to stir it as the stir rod will get coated.

I’d use an IV syringe to pull off the water with each wash, this way minimal amount of freebase was pulled off too. Trying to decant or use a glass stopper wasn’t effective for separating.

After my last wash I’d then dump it out onto a plate using fresh water to wash it out. Then dry quickly by a fan. Should dry overnight.

I have a write up on here somewhere.

-GC

Interesting - thanks for the input.

Do you know if it was cut with Ephedrine when you tried it? I made my base using ammonia solution, so I don't thiink any other impurities are getting through.

A good dude on here who's been helping me also recommended something similar in which to wash the hexane with hot water instead of cold.

I'd sacrifice yield for purity tbh. Ephedrine is such a BS cut when all you want is a coke sesh.

 

[G_Chem]

Na we don’t get it cut with ephedrine over here, my biggest fear was usually levamisole back when that was a big problem. And using ammonia to base your coke won’t alter which impurities do or don’t get through. There’s this misperception that ammonia freebase is much more pure but really the only difference is that baking soda stays as a solid and can’t be separated unless washed with water. So if not washed, the baking soda would remain as an impurity. But beyond that, they should be relatively the same and if anything ammonia might more effectively freebase non-cocaine cuts like ephedrine then baking soda could.

The purity comes from the washes, and honestly there really is not much loss of yield with this method. Hot is the way to go, cold won’t do much of anything.

-GC

 

[negrogesic]

Based on that prep, it should have produced a good product. Must not have much cocaine in it. Not sure how ephedrine impacts the formation of the freebase itself.

Out of curiosity, have you tried preparing it with baking soda, heat and water? You might be able to manually separate the freebase oil that way, since i don't think ephedrine turns as readily into an oil.

 

[negrogesic]

Na we don’t get it cut with ephedrine over here, my biggest fear was usually levamisole back when that was a big problem. And using ammonia to base your coke won’t alter which impurities do or don’t get through. There’s this misperception that ammonia freebase is much more pure but really the only difference is that baking soda stays as a solid and can’t be separated unless washed with water. So if not washed, the baking soda would remain as an impurity. But beyond that, they should be relatively the same and if anything ammonia might more effectively freebase non-cocaine cuts like ephedrine then baking soda could.

The purity comes from the washes, and honestly there really is not much loss of yield with this method. Hot is the way to go, cold won’t do much of anything.

-GC

Yeah exactly what i was thinking. I think ammonium hydroxide is too strong of a base to use on heavily cut cocaine. Baking soda might work better

 

[citypress100]

I am reading that Ephedrine salt (either sulfate or HCl) has good solubility in Acetone, so perhaps my solution is a lot simpler than I'm making it. Maybe just wash my sample 3 times in Acetone and then continue to purify as needed.

What do you guys think?

 

[negrogesic]

I am reading that Ephedrine salt (either sulfate or HCl) has good solubility in Acetone, so perhaps my solution is a lot simpler than I'm making it. Maybe just wash my sample 3 times in Acetone and then continue to purify as needed.

What do you guys think?

Well it may be freebase ephedrine at this point given the relative strength of ammonium hydroxide as a base.

Or do you mean washing the coke beforehand? Definitely cleaning coke well to begin with would be the first step.

*welcome to Bluelight by the way!

 

[citypress100]

Well it may be freebase ephedrine at this point given the relative strength of ammonium hydroxide as base.

Or do you mean washing the coke beforehand? Definitely cleaning coke well to begin with would be the first step.

Yeah am thinking for next time.

I'm a snorter so it's going back to HCl form. I suppose I could do it after - but I want to base my HCl acid volume calculations on the assumption of having pure freebase, so washing beforehand makes a lot more sense.

Struggling to find much info on Ephedrine salts solubility in Acetone though. Chat GPT told me they have good solubility so it must be true right?

 

[citypress100]

Lol forget what I said. Chat GPT is telling me Coke HCl is soluble in Acetone.

I mean yeah, very very slightly it is, so its not wrong, but I'm going to assume for now that Ephedrine Hydrochloride is also practically insoluble in Acetone.

 

[citypress100]

Ok so took another swing at a Coke Hcl + Ephedrine HCl separation today - shout-outs to Sekio and G-Chem for their help.

Followed my method from before using ammonia. When it got to the water wash stage, I heated distilled water to 60'C and added it to a funnel with the hexane layer already inside. I left the top off until i had the funnel in my hands as the vapor build up is very rapid. Literally just putting the stopper on, tilting the funnel, then opening the tap was like launching a bazooka .

Continued washing a few more times with hot water. I noticed as the ephedrine freebase separated into the water, it began to redissolve into the Hexane layer as the solution cooled, which was tricky because the layers hadn't separated fully, so I had to sacrifice a bit of my organic layer to prevent this from happening. I realised it was never going to be perfect, so stopped after 5 washes.

Here are a couple of pics to show the beaker that collected the water:
https://ibb.co/KVvg8Gq
https://ibb.co/mBqC4F8

The Ephedrine freebase has collected on the side is kind of flakey and reminds me a lot of the freebase I originally posted about. It's really soft and easy to move around. I'm sure there's some coke freease in there too, but ce la vie.

I continued and evaporated off the Hexane and ended up with some nice looking freebase:
https://ibb.co/sQvdc76
https://ibb.co/f4r0bT4

The pics were taken as the base was appearing, so it has continued to form as the Hexane evaporates under room temp in ventilation. I broke it up a bit to increase the surface area for drying and it was rock hard, so I'm feeling confident that this is a lot better than the crappy flakey freebase I got before.

I know its not totally pure as so much gack formed of my funnel tap that it was difficult to remove the organic layer without taking a little solid ephedrine freebase along with it. But overall pretty happy with what I got. Plan to turn it back into salt once its fully dried out. Will let you know the results.

For the record I will say this is probably not the more efficient method to separate the 2 substances, but it seems to have yielded some positive results. Am considering a column for my next attempt.

 

[G_Chem]

Lol forget what I said. Chat GPT is telling me Coke HCl is soluble in Acetone.

I mean yeah, very very slightly it is, so its not wrong, but I'm going to assume for now that Ephedrine Hydrochloride is also practically insoluble in Acetone.

This was going to be my response… I’d imagine the solubility is similar for both salts enough to make it a waste of time.

I truly think you should try hot water washing the freebase, which can really only be done on the freebase as is. Hexane having a 69C BP would obviously go crazy if you tried washing with boiling water.

-GC

 

[citypress100]

This was going to be my response… I’d imagine the solubility is similar for both salts enough to make it a waste of time.

I truly think you should try hot water washing the freebase, which can really only be done on the freebase as is. Hexane having a 69C BP would obviously go crazy if you tried washing with boiling water.

-GC

I was considering this following your advice, but isn't the melting point of coke freebase 98'C? I'm assuming then I boil the water, let it cool to like 95'C then pour it on? I also can't find any info on the melting points of Ephedrine anywhere - any ideas on this?

And yeah you're right about the Hexane lol. I kept the water I used to wash to 60'C but it still encouraged rapid Hexane evaporation.