LSD and what you think.

[Apurplenugfish]

I just wanted to put a short post out there getting the opinion of others really quick on a question that passed my mind recently. Do you think in someway that LSD can raise your bodies vibrational level to a point in which you are getting noticeable spiritual advancements and a sense of rebirth as well as the overwhelming feelings of love for yourself, the world, and the ones around you? This is what I've experienced, a feeling of absolute truth and well being that is continuing, and that has changed my life for ever. After taking LSD i have noticed ringing in my ears and a feelin of raised consciousness. I feel like I will soon be exposed into 4th and 5th generation realms if I continues on this path to enlightenment, what do you think?

 

[boiledfruit]

Not trying to harsh your buzz here bro, but if you want long lasting "spiritual development" that is genuine, study religion. Drugs are drugs, okay? I take em' and used to think similar things but I'm telling you, you are kidding yourself if you think the Absolute is waiting for you after an acid trip. I've taken lots of psychedelics, including acid, but the thing that blew my mind more than tripping out was putting down the chemicals and reading books.

People who take psychedelics seem to be more "spiritually inclined" and just love to spout off long winded stuff about consciousness, ego, and reality. I know, I was one of those types. But things you come up with in your head or chat about with your buddies while tripping is just the beginning of your quest. Think long and hard about what you want. We all want answers, comfort, and peace. I felt lost for a LONG time and resorted to drugs to fill the void. I can tell you are into New Age stuff. A good chunk of that comes from ancient religious thought. If you would like me to point you in the direction that helped me the most, I will gladly help.

If you knock on the door, the Lord will answer.

 

[tokezu]

I do think that psychedelics can cause

noticeable spiritual advancements and a sense of rebirth as well as the overwhelming feelings of love for yourself, the world, and the ones around you

but does that happen by "rasing your bodies vibrational level"? I have no idea. If that is a model that works for you, thats fine. But remember that it is just a model and not The Truth™.

I feel like I will soon be exposed into 4th and 5th generation realms if I continues on this path to enlightenment

No offense, but if I started talking like that, I think it would be time to take a break with my use of psychedelics.

 

[Apurplenugfish]

I had this mindset before I've done drugs and it was enhanced by LSD. I also believe thoughts are reality and I think you fail to understand my view on all of this, due to poorly explaining myself or many be I'm just explaining this in a way that that others can't understand but I do however do not know what to think about 4th and 5th dimensions and all of that its in many many books I have read so I'm not exactly sure, I had recently read something online about this subject and was going back to get a second opinion. It's not nesissarily my belief...so your view is the drug is a drug and that you find MY beliefs to be a fragment of my imagination. You cannot tell me that it's just a model and not the truth, my truth is my truth and yours is yours, that's how it is for everyone. Yes I have a mixture of things I believe from the new age stuff but most of it is bullshit. I believe more along the lines of reincarnation, and karma...karma is a big one. I don't label myself as any religion or spirituality, but I do pull parts of both in which I believe souly. I guess I feel as though LSD has opened my mind to MY truth of the universe. Mind you that I trip alone in a meditative state always and never abuse these types of drugs. I guess I feel like there is something special about these types of drugs more than what people think. Thanks for the opinions.

 

[Apurplenugfish]

Not trying to harsh your buzz here bro, but if you want long lasting "spiritual development" that is genuine, study religion. Drugs are drugs, okay? I take em' and used to think similar things but I'm telling you, you are kidding yourself if you think the Absolute is waiting for you after an acid trip. I've taken lots of psychedelics, including acid, but the thing that blew my mind more than tripping out was putting down the chemicals and reading books.

People who take psychedelics seem to be more "spiritually inclined" and just love to spout off long winded stuff about consciousness, ego, and reality. I know, I was one of those types. But things you come up with in your head or chat about with your buddies while tripping is just the beginning of your quest. Think long and hard about what you want. We all want answers, comfort, and peace. I felt lost for a LONG time and resorted to drugs to fill the void. I can tell you are into New Age stuff. A good chunk of that comes from ancient religious thought. If you would like me to point you in the direction that helped me the most, I will gladly help.

If you knock on the door, the Lord will answer.

I was raised Christian and still live through Christ, but I always think there is more to just religion. I'd say I'm more spiritual but still in some ways believe that religion is just a bunch of different books for the same story, and the overall use of psychedelics can open my mind to further possibilities. It's kinda hard to explane without sounding weird to opposing beliefs. I also meditate regularly without the use of psychedelics. I am also open to whatever you want to tell me on what helped you the best.

 

[Apurplenugfish]

You are kidding yourself if you think the Absolute is waiting for you after an acid trip. I've taken lots of psychedelics, including acid, but the thing that blew my mind more than tripping out was putting down the chemicals and reading books.


No offense, but if I started talking like that, I think it would be time to take a break with my use of psychedelics.

You don't understand, I love reading about many different things, one of my favorite hobbies. I don't believe acid will give me the answer automatically but I believe it can help me during and after the trip to open my mind further. I feel it's a extraordinary chemical that may help Me with any mental and spiritual improvements of many kinds.

That being said I only occasionally take psychedelics in a meditative state. It's not like I'm fried or anything, or taking drugs for fun. You make it sound like the psychedelics are giving me a sinse of false truth...if could just feel what I do I'm sure you would totally understand what I'm feeling and saying. Do realize that your thought are materialistically manifested into the world, depending on the way you potrey your thoughts and emotion. (Just an opinion of course) (You get what you put out). So how can ones truth be false. I'm not sure how to explain my thought further. If you manifest your own reality, then how could mine be false for me, this is from the new age beliefs which I don't 100% believe fully there is just parts I believe.

 

[boiledfruit]

Yeah I know where you're coming from. I'm glad you're reading. My beef with new age stuff I'd that it's just a rehashing of Eastern philosophy and a lot of people don't understand it properly because it comes from a totally different paradigm that we as westerners are used to (pardon me if you aren't from the west, just my assumption). So things like yoga, reincarnation, and especially karma are completely misunderstood.

Your journey is your own, no doubt. But let me give you an analogy. Let's say you want to learn music but have no idea about chords, scales, notes, rhythm, time signatures etc. You can either dick around with a guitar or piano and try to learn everything ear, maybe pick up books by different people, watch YouTube, all those sorts of things. Or you can find 1 person, 1 master, who knows music inside and out. A person who had spent their life studying, practising, and performing and learn from him.

This is the difference between The New Age and ancient systems. Sages are the masters and have left books and paths for you to take. Just like there being an endless array of great music teachers, there are many, many great spiritual paths, including Christianity.

That being said, Christianity takes a totally different approach to God than the east, as I'm sure you're more than aware by now. Without talking your ear off, after reading a bit about Zen and Tibetan Buddhism, and Taoism, I chose Hinduism. Such beauty lies inside this enormous spiritual, philosophical, and moral system.

Start with the Bhagavad Gita, or jump right in with Tripura Rahasya. I'll give you the entire teaching. All is God.

 

[Foreigner]

I disagree with the spiel about religion. The only aspect of it which might make sense is that it can provide needed structures to arrive at certain understandings. Something like LSD wipes the slate clean in the sense that it causes such novelty that your associations become dissolved. If you've been working for years and years in a structured way to accomplish something, LSD may enhance it, or conversely show you its futility. But nonetheless some people need the more structured approach and psychedelics are too ungrounding in their neuroplastic nature. I did high dose LSD for about a year and a half. My initial explorations were profound, meaningful, and instructive; but eventually I started to develop an anxiety disorder due to the constant neuroplasticity. The fact is, our psyche needs structure in order to function in the world. LSD may show us an existence beyond ego but you can't live there as a human being. You can only learn to live with ego and see it for what it is.

I've accomplished with psychedelics what would've taken me 40 years of religious study to figure out, and I'm someone who has also consulted world religions and even done some work in monasteries. That doesn't mean I've reached an end goal (if there even is one), but I think psychedelics are here to enhance human consciousness. Nobody can say which way is the best way for you. In some ways LSD helped provide a much, much deeper understanding and integration to what I already knew. In other ways, it showed me the limits of the ideologies I had immersed myself in and the various ways I had been wasting my time.

The risks of psychedelics is that they create delusions of grandeur for those on the spiritual path. They create a sense that you've discovered singularity and achieved the almighty -- that the truth is "out there" and you've finally "reached" it. It adds layers of unnecessary illusion to the spiritual path. If you can learn to see through the illusion, while on LSD, then I'd say you've made major progress. On the other hand, if you believe in what you're seeing, then you're fucked -- and I know how real it can seem. It's how psychedelics become habitually addictive... if only you could just do them one more time, the truth might be all that more clear. Psychedelics grant you a preview of what might be possible in consciousness if you do the necessary inner work, but mostly, they're all mind.

I've done a lot of body work in the past 5 years because I've lived most of my life feeling out of body, due to trauma, and my vatta nature. Trying a psychedelic after all that non-psychedelic work brought the experience deep into my physical presence, which made it all the more worth it. Why I'm saying this is that I believe psychedelics will enhance your current potential based on what you've already accomplished. The novelty of the psychedelic experience becomes stale if you aren't progressing at all in the linear world.

I guess the bottom line of what I'm saying, in terms of my experience, is that I've always been a seeker, looking for the Divine in things, whether it's religion, travel, drugs, etc. LSD is one sign post in that journey, I don't consider it to be the holy grail anymore, though it did seem that way at the outset. And if I'm ever feeling like the structures in my life aren't working for me, I can always go back to LSD to make it all flexible again.

 

[tokezu]

You cannot tell me that it's just a model and not the truth, my truth is my truth and yours is yours, that's how it is for everyone.

I didn't mean to say, that because it's a model it's not true. What I meant was, that I think it's helpful to remind oneself that the tool we're using to work on these questions - our consciousness - might not to be equipped to detect any kind of *absolute* truth, because it didn't necessarily evolve for that purpose.
In my view what it evolved for, is to reduce all the incoming stimuli to such a narrow dataset, that we become able to postulate models, which attempt to explain, interpret and predict the things happening in/around us. So while it is certainly possible that any given model perfectly represents an *absolute* truth, that exists outside of us, it's equally possible that this *absolute* truth is unobtainable to us and the best we can hope for is developing models that come closer and closer to that *absolute* truth, yet never reach it.
Since we can't rule out the second option, I think it's best to try to always be aware that we are looking at models of reality not reality itself. Now I don't have anything against these models, they are a great tool to not get lost in this world, but the greatest thing about them is that we know they aren't perfect. This allows us to drop any model that has been shown to be wrong and to develop a new one. When we forget that the model is just a model and start treating it as reality, we become less likely to drop a model that doesn't work and instead use all our energy to ignore the contradicting evidence.

This is the difference between The New Age and ancient systems. Sages are the masters and have left books and paths for you to take.

Well, Kurt Tucholsky wrote "Experience means nothing. You can do something badly for 35 years.'' I think you can do something badly for 4000 years as well. How would you know whether someone or some group is making spiritual progress or is stuck in the same thoughtloop as all their predecessors? With your musician example, a totally naive beginner could be fooled by someone pretending to be a master, but with a little bit of experience one would soon be able to tell apart the real master and the imposter. But how would that work with a spiritual master? From the outside it is imho utterly impossible to tell apart somebody who is enlightened from somebody who is deluded. And as soon as you step into that spiritual system, you would have to account for the possibility of deluding yourself into believing what you want to believe.
This is not meant to defend New Age stuff, but rather to say that one shouldn't be any less sceptical just because there is thousands of years of tradition.

 

[boiledfruit]

^^^yea, it happens. Especially nowadays, there are spiritual con artists. It was a big thing in the 60s for crooked spiritual teachers to come to the USA and bang their disciples. The explanation to why that happens is also in Hinduism.

If you stick yo non dual teachings of Hinduism or Buddhism you'll get essentially the same knowledge. But from what I've picked up from modern teachers is find 1 school you like and stick with it.