Lysergamides LSD and strange bladder pain

[Ismene2]

Have you had your prostate checked?

Are you offering?

 

[unodelacosa]

Are you offering?

Lol. Well, if it would save you from a painful cancer death, then yeah Bro, I would offer. But I otherwise get the feeling it wouldn’t be very practical or enjoyable for either of us. But even without the intrusive “digital-rectal test”, it might be a good idea to have your PSA (prostate-specific antigen) number checked just in case ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[finitelifeform]

I can now attest to having similar experiences to the OP.
I had 110ug of LSD (good stuff) about a few weeks ago and the bladder/intestinal pain was UNREAL. I did eat a shit tonne of McDonalds prior to tripping but I never expected such a horrible experience. I don't know if it has something to do what what you ate. I know McDonalds is full of shit and so maybe that interacted with the acid. Acid being acid might interact with byproducts of whatever you eat. I know something along those lines did with me. It was awful.

 

[Fire&Water]

... CaptainTrips

 

[unodelacosa]

There are also several papers that discuss LC/GC MS determination of isometric content of LSD on blotters. It is fairly straightforward in a laboratory context to determine LSD purity.

So firstly, I’ve often heard the opposite regarding determining LSD purity in a proper lab context. This paper discusses it some, but I know advancements have been made in analytics since then: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0378434797005380

Having said that, I’ve long been dubious of Energy Control’s ability to determine with high accuracy what’s in the samples they receive. Personally I think that acid quality varies from lab to lab in the underground world. I know some batches are made better than others, and it leads me to believe that impurities are introduced by sloppy, inexperienced, and/or unskilled amateur chemists sometimes. While many of the potential side products have been found to be inactive or maybe 3 to 20 times less potent than LSD, this, to me, doesn’t rule out the possibility that these impurities could still have an “entourage effect” similar to THC and the 100+ other cannabinoids that are inactive alone, but when taken together they “flavor” the high.

I totally get and understand the allure of the argument that: LSD analogs are so much less potent and in smaller quantities than LSD that there’s no way they could alter the qualitative effects. But I think that’s jumping to an early conclusion. But eh, these are still good points you raise, and I appreciate you sharing the knowledge and viewpoint. I’d like to read the papers you mentioned regarding isometric content of LSD on blotters.

 

[unodelacosa]

There are numerous studies, particularly in Europe and one notable one in Brazil, where presumed LSD blotters have been collected at festivals or from police seizures and subjected to LC/GC MS. With the exception of Brazil the findings are that the blotter is either impregnated with pure LSD or with some other psychoactive substances such as a DOC or NBOMe. LSD has only extremely rarely found on the same blotter as another psychoactive substance. Meaning your basic Ehrlich indole test followed by Hoffman is pretty reliable (except for ruling out ETH-LAD)

Only one paper on user-level drug testing I have ever read commented on the identification of manufacturing residues from LSD using LC/GC MS. This indicated residues being <1%. There are also several papers that discuss LC/GC MS determination of isometric content of LSD on blotters. It is fairly straightforward in a laboratory context to determine LSD purity.

Energy Control’s testing regime specifically quantifies and differentiates LSD from iso-LSD (using HPLC with a coupled UV detector). But there is little data out there to suggest that it is being found on blotters based on the various public studies they have provided data to.

Have you seen this? https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00414-006-0078-x

 

[Jabberwocky]

Have you seen this? https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00414-006-0078-x

Yes. I thought that was a very interesting article in support of the argument that isomers and metabolites (of LSD in this case) are fairly easily and routinely discernible if that’s what you are looking for. So mysterious contaminants or variants at the molecular level won’t stay mysterious for very long (which has implications for the ‘MehDMA discussions too I think).

This section in particular caught my eye. There is a similar section for the quantification of the same substances in tissue/fluid samples further on:

“ When MH+ ions of the epimer iso-LSD are collided under the same conditions, the same product ions are produced, but their relative abundances are different, as may be seen in Table 1; by varying the tickle voltage at a fixed tickle time and monitoring the absolute abundance of MH+ and product ions at m/z 281 and 223, the two stereoisomers are clearly distinguished over a wide range of collisional conditions (data not shown) and ion trap multiple mass spectrometry, due to its step-by-step energy deposition on preselected ions [14], once again proves to be a powerful diagnostic tool in stereoisomer characterization. Canezin et al. also found analogous results on a triple quadrupole [10], under collisional conditions which are, however, different from those of an ion trap.”

BTW: I totally believe in the possibility of an entourage effect and while isometric quantification CAN be done fairly easily that does not mean that it routinely is.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Having said that, I’ve long been dubious of Energy Control’s ability to determine with high accuracy what’s in the samples they receive. Personally I think that acid quality varies from lab to lab in the underground world. I know some batches are made better than others, and it leads me to believe that impurities are introduced by sloppy, inexperienced, and/or unskilled amateur chemists sometimes..

When William Leonard Pickard was busted for the final time it was claimed he had been running a series of labs that were producing kg amounts of near pharma-grade LSD every month. Say 10 million standard doses a month. About the same time another major chemist and their mutual supplier of precursors were taken down and there began a well-known drought of LSD for several years.

Although there is a huge amount of myth and misinformation around his case, Pickard always claim LSD production is decentralised but most of the evidence from the criminal justice system suggests a small number of mega producers. I can’t find very much evidence of small-scale LSD labs being busted the way meth, MDMA, speed, and other labs are around the world.

If this is true it would suggest there is really not that much variation in LSD quality from amateur chemists though Pickard had spoken about variations in batches he made from things like lab temp and humidity during the process.

T

I’d like to read the papers you mentioned regarding isometric content of LSD on blotters.

I began with the papers re-published on the Energy-Comtrol website and followed up the citations. The most significant ones are the testing done at festivals attracting users from multiple countries because that seems to give a reasonably random multi-country sample for the testing.

 

[Bitchniggaz]

I beleive lsd and other psychedelics can show you issues way before they actually manifest.

This is pure speculation though, but i suspect it can give you a preview of something that may be well in the future.
So try to not worry but maybe do some Lifestyle changes that would be healthy for your bladder and kidneys.

 

[unodelacosa]

When William Leonard Pickard was busted for the final time it was claimed he had been running a series of labs that were producing kg amounts of near pharma-grade LSD every month. Say 10 million standard doses a month. About the same time another major chemist and their mutual supplier of precursors were taken down and there began a well-known drought of LSD for several years.

Although there is a huge amount of myth and misinformation around his case, Pickard always claim LSD production is decentralised but most of the evidence from the criminal justice system suggests a small number of mega producers. I can’t find very much evidence of small-scale LSD labs being busted the way meth, MDMA, speed, and other labs are around the world.

If this is true it would suggest there is really not that much variation in LSD quality from amateur chemists though Pickard had spoken about variations in batches he made from things like lab temp and humidity during the process.

T


I began with the papers re-published on the Energy-Comtrol website and followed up the citations. The most significant ones are the testing done at festivals attracting users from multiple countries because that seems to give a reasonably random multi-country sample for the testing.

You know man, I recently read Operation White Rabbit: LSD, the DEA, and the Fate of the Acid King by Dennis McDougal (published Oct 2020, and a highly recommended read), and one take-away I got from the book was that Pickard was never completely full of shit, but he wasn't exactly free of any misgivings or capable of spinning up yarns and facts to suit his need, barely bending truths here and there in a manner that couldn't be questioned most times, and that attitude and approach occasionally would bite him in the ass.

Regarding the uncovering of LSD labs versus amphetamine labs, firstly, meth labs need not be very sophisticated labs whatsoever, so we're kinda comparing two different things here. Secondly, this is inline with what I would expect given the relatively more difficult nature of LSD production versus meth or even MDMA production which is somewhere in the middle between meth and LSD synthesis. Accordingly, meth labs are uncovered more often than MDMA labs which are themselves uncovered more often than LSD labs, which are hardly ever discovered, by the DEA's own admission. And boy how it stroked their egos to take down Pickard despite doing so with the controversial assistance of a disreputable snitch criminal shitbag in the form of Todd Gordon Skinner.

I'm at least glad Pickard was granted compassionate release during and on account of the COVID-19 pandemic after serving twenty years, all the while warning the world about an impending fentanyl crisis. I consider his story to be one of sacrifice and redemption.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

pickard was a dea snitch aswell rats hang out with rats. Pickard was involved in murders, warlords and the taliban in the 90s. The bastard is a truly crazy human he lived it all. But i respect him but lets not go around saying hes a saint lol. He was up to many dark shady things aswell this was high level organized crimminal stuff.

Pickard was busted many times and only ever got off by snitching. Karma comes around and bites him in the ass.

Making LSD is not that haard in the 21st century. many many new paths to high quality crystal have been discovered by chemists to avoid the law.

they still make lsd in califorina holland czech germany spain and poland and even obsurce places like australia and even in nz. Chemists are out there living like some secert alchemist producing this sacred holy molecule LSD-25.

they are doing gods work.

 

[unodelacosa]

pickard was a dea snitch aswell

I've wondered about this, but I see no evidence he ever received a §5K1.1 reduction in sentence for substantial assistance to the U.S. prosecutor nor a Rule 3553(b) motion granted, but I'm also not privy to his Judgment and Commitment papers, which would clearly notate such a ruling in his case. I doubt you've seen his JNC papers either though, so what makes you so certain he snitched?

rats hang out with rats.

Yes but rats also go around undetected sometimes, and/or Pickard might've felt he would be able to mitigate his risk from Skinner here. I don't know, but I certainly don't like accusing people of being rats without definitive proof.

Also in a case involving a snitch, the number of defendants usually grows as more arrests start to occur. How come that doesn't seem to be true in Pickard's case?

Pickard was involved in murders, warlords and the taliban in the 90s.

Yeah I could believe that.

The bastard is a truly crazy human he lived it all.

Do you know him personally or somebody else told you this?

But i respect him

You openly call the man a snitch and then also state that you respect him?

but lets not go around saying hes a saint lol.

Who said he was a saint? You're the one stating you respect someone you think is a snitch. So what are you talking about and who are you addressing here? I know it's not me, because my central thesis is that he's not fully to be believed, and is quick to tell sketchy “facts” and outright lies.

He was up to many dark shady things aswell this was high level organized crimminal stuff.

No one is debating this.

Pickard was busted many times

This is true according to records presented in the book as well.

and only ever got off by snitching.

But is this true? Doesn't seem like the author would've risked his reputation by holding out a pivotal fact such as what you claim. It's easy to say things like this, but again, can you show me some proof of this? I see no evidence suggesting his cooperation – no co-defendants besides Clyde Apperson who was arrested with him near the Wamego lab. It looks like he alone took the fall each and every time.

Karma comes around and bites him in the ass.

He certainly made mistakes, that's for sure. Can't comment on karma here, but you sure have a weird, conflicting opinion of the man.

Making LSD is not that haard in the 21st century.

Oh so you make LSD, then?

many many new paths to high quality crystal have been discovered by chemists to avoid the law.

Yeah like what? Just keep it in generalities so as to not violate site rules, but which new paths are you referring to?

they still make lsd in califorina holland czech germany spain and poland and even obsurce places like australia and even in nz.

True. This doesn't indicate that it's easy though. And all of it pivots on acquisition of the appropriate precursors which is not something everyone has the privilege of knowing where to find quite so easily. It's a bit of an exclusive club, those with access to legit ergotamine tartrate…

Chemists are out there living like some secert alchemist producing this sacred holy molecule LSD-25.

Clandestine chemistry has always been cool to me, and I like the picture you're painting here, even if alchemists were a little bit nutty in their pursuits, lol.

they are doing gods work.

Can't argue with you there

 

[finitelifeform]

I've wondered about this, but I see no evidence he ever received a §5K1.1 reduction in sentence for substantial assistance to the U.S. prosecutor nor a Rule 3553(b) motion granted, but I'm also not privy to his Judgment and Commitment papers, which would clearly notate such a ruling in his case. I doubt you've seen his JNC papers either though, so what makes you so certain he snitched?

Most of them were on the agency payroll in one way or another. Whole movements were compromised. They were your modern day social media influencers without all the modern day aspects involved. Pretty much every notable leader, pioneer or what have you were all involved to some degree. Much of the swinging sixties that started off all of this was predicated on attempting to create these leaders who would alienate and isolate their followers, which they did with great success. By the time it was all over pretty much all notable figures for these movements were compromised and had been working with, either directly or otherwise, the government.

They were all used like pawns in the end.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

Supplies of ergot while hard ain't impossible for alot of academics to access. Or criminals. Ergot can be found in south africa and indian corrupt pharma places or other unwatched alkaloids for ergot exist across europe. I wlnt help the DEA by listing the latest pathways