LSD and moclobemide?
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greenmeanies
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i have never tried moclobemide, but my experience with harmala+psilocybe definitely says "alters the character"... some people say harmala alone is highly visionary (if not without side-effects) and [b. caapi] is actually the "teacher" in ayahuasca-type oral DMT brews. moclobemide on the other hand is supposed to be relatively free of side effects...
has anyone taken harmala or moclobemide ALONE in order to differentiate the qualitative effects of each? i know most comparisons of these two drug classes are regarding their effectiveness in promoting oral activity of MAO-catabolized drugs...
has anyone taken harmala or moclobemide ALONE in order to differentiate the qualitative effects of each? i know most comparisons of these two drug classes are regarding their effectiveness in promoting oral activity of MAO-catabolized drugs...
IN the interest of harm reduction, there are generally two ways an maoi can kill you, It can be a classic MAOI kill, meaning that while your tyramine metabolism is down for the count your pressor amines build up and cause a stroke.Anyone fucking with an MAOI should carry a rescue dose of Nifedifine. To keep that blood pressure down in emergencies. The second thing that will kill you is drug interactions in the operating room. For example LSD + Nardil + Demerol. It's good to have a medic alert bracelet if you plan on taking an MAOI regularly especially one of the irreversible ones. Even though moclobemide is reversible, care needs to be taken. Moclobemide will make LSD hit harder. Demerol might end your life. Dilaudid might save it. If the anesthesiologist is not aware of all of what you have taken. Your life could hang in the balance.
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The main dangers with MAOI's and serotonergics are
a) drastically increased potency of an ingested psychedelic ("serotonin agonist") as it can no longer be broken down by monoamine oxidase, as well as
b) drastically increased levels of serotonin as your body can no longer rapidly break down excessive amounts of released serotonin
Now, case a) applies to any psychedelic that is broken down by MAO, the most famous case being DMT, which isn't even orally active without an MAOI. Case b) applies to serotonin releasing agents, the most famous example being MDMA - here it is less about the metabolism of the drug (which, in the case of MDMA, happens mostly through enzymes other than MAO) but about no longer being able to degrade all that serotonin that the MDMA tricked your neurons into releasing.
You would figure that case a) would also apply to LSD, being a serotonin agonist rather than a releasing agent, but LSD is (to my knowledge) not metabolized by MAO to any meaningful extent, if at all.
However, the harmala alkaloids typically used to potentiate DMT would still be expected to alter the trip as they themselves seem to be mildly psychedelic (Shulgin discusses this in his article on Harmaline in TIHKAL), whereas Moclobemide, being more selective in its action, isn't. However, there are probably more effective / less unpleasant combos if you want to "flavor" your LSD experience by adding another psychedelic.
So, to sum up: No, LSD and Moclobemide probably won't kill you, but it also won't intensify the experience. In fact, chronic use of pharmaceutical MAOI's will most likely slightly diminish the psychedelic experience, in the same way that SSRI's do.
Note: Take this with a grain of salt. I've taken lysergamides despite being on Parnate (which is an irrreversible MAOI, even), which, yeah, might be considered pretty reckless and should not be imitated; in fact, your takeaway from this should be that adding an MAOI to LSD is pretty darn pointless and thus not worth the risk in any case.
a) drastically increased potency of an ingested psychedelic ("serotonin agonist") as it can no longer be broken down by monoamine oxidase, as well as
b) drastically increased levels of serotonin as your body can no longer rapidly break down excessive amounts of released serotonin
Now, case a) applies to any psychedelic that is broken down by MAO, the most famous case being DMT, which isn't even orally active without an MAOI. Case b) applies to serotonin releasing agents, the most famous example being MDMA - here it is less about the metabolism of the drug (which, in the case of MDMA, happens mostly through enzymes other than MAO) but about no longer being able to degrade all that serotonin that the MDMA tricked your neurons into releasing.
You would figure that case a) would also apply to LSD, being a serotonin agonist rather than a releasing agent, but LSD is (to my knowledge) not metabolized by MAO to any meaningful extent, if at all.
However, the harmala alkaloids typically used to potentiate DMT would still be expected to alter the trip as they themselves seem to be mildly psychedelic (Shulgin discusses this in his article on Harmaline in TIHKAL), whereas Moclobemide, being more selective in its action, isn't. However, there are probably more effective / less unpleasant combos if you want to "flavor" your LSD experience by adding another psychedelic.
So, to sum up: No, LSD and Moclobemide probably won't kill you, but it also won't intensify the experience. In fact, chronic use of pharmaceutical MAOI's will most likely slightly diminish the psychedelic experience, in the same way that SSRI's do.
Note: Take this with a grain of salt. I've taken lysergamides despite being on Parnate (which is an irrreversible MAOI, even), which, yeah, might be considered pretty reckless and should not be imitated; in fact, your takeaway from this should be that adding an MAOI to LSD is pretty darn pointless and thus not worth the risk in any case.
Re: MDMA: Claudio Naranjo adminsitered harmaline in combination with MDA to volunteers (see Harmaline chapter). He briefly mentions this in The Healing Journey, but unfortunately he says that he has chosen to only elaborate on his harmaline-only experiements (he also gave people harmaline and TMA).
And this is an Erowid trip report where someone consumed three MDxs with ayahuasca and did not incur injury:
Jezebel. Fun, Plus 'Ghost People': An Experience with Ayahuasca, Mushrooms, MDMA, MDE, MDA, LSD, LSA, Blue Lotus, Cannabis, Alcohol, & Opium (ID 24742). Erowid.org. Jun 24, 2003. erowid.org/exp/24742
One thing I know from looking at scientific literature is that the extent of MAO inhibition that an MAOI induces is measured on a percentage scale. Maybe the reason MDx can be taken in combo with harmaline is that harmaline doesn't produce strong MAO inhibition in the brain.
And this is an Erowid trip report where someone consumed three MDxs with ayahuasca and did not incur injury:
Jezebel. Fun, Plus 'Ghost People': An Experience with Ayahuasca, Mushrooms, MDMA, MDE, MDA, LSD, LSA, Blue Lotus, Cannabis, Alcohol, & Opium (ID 24742). Erowid.org. Jun 24, 2003. erowid.org/exp/24742
One thing I know from looking at scientific literature is that the extent of MAO inhibition that an MAOI induces is measured on a percentage scale. Maybe the reason MDx can be taken in combo with harmaline is that harmaline doesn't produce strong MAO inhibition in the brain.
WSH
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Yes, that's definitely true. When harmaline is taking orally, it obviously accumulates in the stomach, which is good for activating oral dmt, but bad in terms of brain effects.
Sir Ron Pib
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Moclob and harmaline have very different effects when mixed with tryptamines like shrooms and DPT, the latter is more trippy the former more antidepressant and seems to slow the flow - both can be good.
Not tried moclob with acid but have tried harmaline - the character is slightly changed but there was no potentiation I could note so I suspect as Hodor suggests it's not largely broken down by MAO - perhaps it's high potency suggests this too. Get back if you try this.
Not tried moclob with acid but have tried harmaline - the character is slightly changed but there was no potentiation I could note so I suspect as Hodor suggests it's not largely broken down by MAO - perhaps it's high potency suggests this too. Get back if you try this.