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Lysergamides [LSA Subthread] LSA's vs. LSD

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BrianUK23

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Dec 28, 2003
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LSA and LSD?

I know that Lysergic acid is the stuff found in morning glory seeds, and i have done them a few timesand really enjoy myself. I was wondering what comparisons could be made regarding LSD and LSA? I've never done acid but am planning on it soon. While we are on this subject of comparisons, what differences are there?
 
not similar IMO, but if you actually enjoy LSA then you will more then likely LOVE LSD.
 
LSD and LSA have alot of differences, but I can find plenty of similarities between them. Neither should be taken as "less" than the other because I have had LSA trips that blew LSD away in some ways, and I've had LSD trips that blew LSA away in other ways. In a basic sense, LSD is usually more of an enjoyable experience. It's hard to describe the similarities, but there is just a certain feel to ergoline chemicals. It's somewhat of a melting feeling. You will probably see some similarities and some differences. Just take the drug for what it is. The best way to get something out of an experience is to let it surprise you. Analyze the differences while you are tripping.
 
i got a very very strong physical stimulation with lsa that i don't feel with lsd
 
I feel it's the other way around. I've only done it twice but each time it seemed more easy going but that may not be normal.
 
Morning glory seeds suck. I ate like 200 seeds and only had like 2 or 3 mild visuals. It's more for introspection than just good 'ol fashion trippin.
 
So which is easier to handle? Or which would you advise a first timer to use? I once flipped out on shroomz so I gotta go easy on psychedelics but I'm very interested.
 
Morning glory seeds are unpleasant unless extracted right. They cause severe nausea, even after downing half a bottle of pepto-bismal, for atleast an hour. I would go with the LSD. LSD is always kick ass.
 
calling LSA a sedative is kinda misleading. LSA actually stands for Lysergic Acid Amides (pleural). One amide in particular (LA11) has sedative effects, but its just a contributing chemical in the morning glory/ baby woodrose trip.

As for the differences, I'd say that LSD has the potential to be alot more intense at a typical dose. Taking high doses of MG seeds can make me feel very nauseated, cramped, and cold. At a comprable intensity, LSD has none of those qualities in me.

LSA is consdiered less euphoric and more of a "mindfuck"
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LSA, IMO, is less euphoric, AND less of a "mindfuck" (hate that term). I feel totally at peace, blissed, and happy on acid. The mindfuck, I suppose, is the crazy, psychedelic thinking. I got none of that on LSA.


Morning glory seeds suck. I ate like 200 seeds and only had like 2 or 3 mild visuals. It's more for introspection than just good 'ol fashion trippin.
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They don't suck, you just don't like what they have to offer. I would say that the seeds do lend themselves nicely to infrospection, but only becuase I always have to clear my mind, and isolate myself to get desirable, psychedelic experiences.

not similar IMO, but if you actually enjoy LSA then you will more then likely LOVE LSD.
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ya, thats highly likely.
 
Lysergic acid is not found in the Convolvulaceae (morning glory) family. I don't think unsubstituted, plain lysergic acid is found in any genus (Claviceps, Argyreia, Ipomoea, Stipa, etc) of the many plants or fungi ergolines are known to occur in.. But that I do not know that for sure. It's very unstable and would likely bond with other chemicals present in the flesh of these various species and become something else.

Also remember that LSA is not one chemical. but many chemicals. LSAs are amides of lysergic acid. LSD is the N,N-diethyl amide of lysergic acid, and this is a semi synthetic LSA. d- Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide, found in most ergoline-containing plant and fungi families is the N-hydroxy-N-ethyl amide of lysergic acid. Ergine (LA-111, d-lysergic acid amide) is d-isomer of regular, unsubstituted lysergic acid amide and is also found in many plant and fungi genusis.

Morning glories contain up to a dozen or so LSAs. In Rivea corymbosa (ololiuqui), here are the main half-dozen LSAs.

Ergoline%20Structures.gif


The ratios of the various amides do vary between different Convolvulaceae species. Ipomoea violacea (heavenly blue) does not have lysergol in it, but another one insitead apprears. Too lazy too look. I know Argyreia nervosa contains a sizable amount of Penniclavine, and it is only found in a trace amount in the Ipomea sp. Perhaps this is why baby woodrose are much more sedating that heavenly blue seeds. That's the main difference I've noted. That, and heavenly blue's are more "colorful" but that is of course subjective.

There is no doubt that the other amides present in the seeds affect the action of the main one (ergine) as Hofmann's description of this alkaloid are nothing more than that of a sedative. And I can assure you that heavenly blues and baby woodrose seeds are more than just a sedative.
 
That's a really interesting question...I never really got too many "mental" effects from morning glory seeds (compared to LSD or shrooms) unless I smoked pot along with them.

But since I've taken LSD, I think perhaps...I just wasn't looking for the effects in the right place. I dunno. I definitely get more physical feelings from LSA (morning glory seeds) than from LSD. LSD seems to feel more "pure" but of course, that's a very subjective statement.

I hope I can get over the nasty taste of morning glory seeds and try them again, after having done LSD, in order to do a proper comparison.

I don't think they're a sedative, though. They definitely have hallucinogenic properties, perhaps just more subtle than those of LSD.

But then again, I don't trip to see visuals. I trip to find myself and show me to others!
 
I took MG seeds / HBWR perhaps 15 times before ever encountering LSD.

LSA is a much darker trip, in general. While it can be blissful at times, it is much less so than LSD.

LSA is more of a mindfuck, or at least seems like it. Perhaps this is because it is difficult to put the nausea, stomach pain, and leg cramps out of your mind. Also because LSA has less visuals than LSD, you might be surprised to realize how hard your mind is tripping.

LSA open-eye visuals are similar to LSD. (200 MG or 8 HBWR seeds = 75ug LSD in terms of visual intensity) But LSA visuals are more "swirly", like tapestries dripping and sidewalks breathing. Once I saw a sidewalk light go through the entire spectrum of color. Cars may look like they are smiling at you... or more likely your mind will be so fucked you will think they are smiling at you.

LSA closed-eye visuals, for me, were usually mosaics, South American native art-looking stuff, etc. Often photorealistic.

LSD visuals are very hard to explain because, really, you can see anything you imagine. LSD visuals are more cosmic and neon-flashy than the earthy swirly LSA visuals.

In terms of buzz, LSA *can* feel nice. But it can also feel like you're being poisoned because of all the side effects. It's a weird high. You definitely get very high, but it doesn't feel very clean.

The LSD high is a combination of a feeling of enlightenment, excitement, and a buzz that feels natural and not toxic at all.

Duration::::

LSD ~ 12 hours (30min - 1h30 comeup, 2-3 hours to peak, 4-7 hour long peak)
LSA ~ 7 hours (30min - 3h comeup, peak at 3rd or 4th hour, 2-3 hour long peak)

peace
 
bluedolphin said:
8 HBWR seeds = 75ug LSD
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Well it's really hard to compare as the two are so different. But with the baby woodrose seeds I am familiar with, as few as 5 or 6 would be similar to an average "hit" of LSD. 8 seeds was beyond what one "hit" of LSD could do. I'd say 8 seeds was closer to 100ug of LSD, or more even. But the potency varies with seeds. And also, none of us have had pharmacuetical LSD and thus none of know what 75ug of LSD is really like.

However, I've worked with liquid LSD sworn in (by the distributor who actually bought it direct from the manufacturer overseas and placed the powdered LSD into solution) at 100ug/drop. Now that's a connection. God if only he was still around! :( Anyway, he worked with gram quantities at a time, and had a microgram scale. Assuming the crystal LSD was pure (it sure feels as good as LSD can possibly ever get) there is a good chance I really do take 100ug with each drop.

Everything leads me to believe that each drop was within a few ug of the stated dosage. The effects of a 100ug drop mirror what the old Sandoz inserts for Delysid (prescription LSD) said would happen per dose. It was always right at 2.5 drops (or 250ug) that I'd begin to experience ego loss and 3 drops blew me away completely. Somewhere between 1 and 2 drops is the usual dosage. One time I even split a single drop with 3 others and we each felt it. But only just, like any less and there would have been nothing. The threshold dosage of LSD is listed by most as being 25ug. Once, and only once, did I take 5 drops. And it was so strong, that it was too strong to make any sense of. Besides scaring the shit out of me, I didn't "get anything" from it. I don't regret it and I can't call it a "bad trip" but that one was close.

I will never get those who like to "eat a 10-strip" for fun on the weekends. Either they get really weak LSD, or they are nuts. Or maybe I don't get it and I'm nuts; peanuts at that. But at 300ug I was pretty much as gone as one could be. Taking higher dosages was stronger and lasted a little longer, but beyond 300ug I couldn't comprehend anything and thus more was really a waste of my time. I guess I just don't like high-dose LSD anymore unless I mix it with MDMA. Probably the result of taking LSD seemingly every weekend when I was 17 and 18 years old. Now, I take LSD once a year (if that.)
 
I think really that both really depend on what your setting is. Either can be very euphoric or more of a mindfuck.

Some nights with LSA were more euphoric than LSD, so to say that LSA is not at all euphoric, would be wrong. I can say that either way you're going to be a little sedated. I have had less than stellar times with LSA, but I see them as learning experiences, about myself as well as other things.
I've also done the two together, that was quite an experience, very complimentary, but I wouldn't suggest it for the average person. I had very weak LSD, so that was definetly a factor.
Anyway, from my experiences, the difference has been inside and out. LSA is a bit more introspective/euphoric/physical, and LSD is perspective change/general happiness/visually stimulating. Your results may vary.
 
morninggloryseed said:
Well it's really hard to compare as the two are so different. But with the baby woodrose seeds I am familiar with, as few as 5 or 6 would be similar to an average "hit" of LSD. 8 seeds was beyond what one "hit" of LSD could do. I'd say 8 seeds was closer to 100ug of LSD, or more even. But the potency varies with seeds. And also, none of us have had pharmacuetical LSD and thus none of know what 75ug of LSD is really like..
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The only time I've ever had visuals from HBWR that approached the intensity of one "hit" of LSD was 8 seeds oral, which happened to be the largest dose of real HBWR I ever took. The dark and twisted mindfuck I got from the trip far outweighed the earthy-acid-like visuals.

Without cannabis I found both morning glory seeds and HBWR seeds to be much milder. As I'm sure you know cannabis magnifies the intensity of these trips greatly.

But each of our approximations are fairly close to the other. I suspect, based on reading many of your trip reports here ( and years ago on Erowid :) ) that we have similarly low tolerances and capacities for intense experiences on relatively modest doses.

morninggloryseed said:

I will never get those who like to "eat a 10-strip" for fun on the weekends. Either they get really weak LSD, or they are nuts. But at 300ug I was pretty much as gone as one could be. Taking higher dosages was stronger and lasted a little longer, but beyond 300ug I couldn't comprehend anything and thus more was really a waste of my time.
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I can't say I've gone beyond approx. 250ug, but I thought that was excellent! However I can't really imagine a situation where I want a trip much more intense than that. I have found that even low dose trips (50ug, 70ug, 85ug, 130ug, and 160ug... close estimates) provided just as much meaning and with perhaps a clearer message. Instead of trying to coalesce five hours of sensory overload sometimes its easier to work things out clearly in the midst of the trip.
 
Why go to all the trouble of converting LSA to LSD?

What makes LSD so much better than LSA that is so much more popular/sought-after?
 
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