Opioids Loperamide (Imodium) Megathread v. 2

[lolwhatzdrugs]

Lolwhatzdrugs- I can't remember what forum/site I read it on but someone was saying that if available it would be better to jump to a short acting opiate( they recommended Percocet/oxy)for 2-3 months and ct from that instead of the lope. But who has a 3 month supply of Percocet available on a whim.

I was thinking along the lines of a different drug, and shall do it. I rather have 4 days of abject misery rather than weeks..... Can you find the post you mentioned?

I'm coming off years of heavy heroin and I didn't taper that much. This was me crying and shaking in a room, stomach crazy, but its better than it lasting forever to me.
And, despite reading the shit out of stuff saying its all that helps I say no sub or methadone.
Get some benzos, klonodine, ketamine, and immodium.

Please elaborate!

 

[southeast]

Okay... Uhm... I haven't slept in a long time (over 72 hours) but that's just going to happen with withdrawl and I think opiates help. I don't like tapering cause it's longer unpleasantries and I just don't like the stuff but it will also shorten the worst of your withdrawals and benzodiazepines help me with some of those bad left over feelings and sleep. I used ketamine the third into the fourth... That's a long time but I have a k tolerance. Everyone I knows is like fuck yea k for withdrawals but on here I don't see it much but that last 18 hours I did cold except klonodine (which i take for two weeks of withdrawl for blood pressure) sweat it and it wasn't great but took the last bit out quick. Different opiates have different withdrawl times and different people carry out the worst (3-5 days, for me usually four of the intense stuff 12ish hour onset for opiates and 5 days before it gets bAd with methadone/ bupe). So I'm not sure when it will get better-- I say stay away from benadryle and dxm and allergy meds and cold nighttime sleep aids-- with the worst of it you will do anything to feel better and that stuff in large amounts hurts you. Good luck I hope this helped... I dunno what else to explain.

 

[southeast]

Take immodium as you need it so many threads about that. And benzodiazepines I did till the lady twelve/ 18, not while on k, and at night: during the day for a while after but not long enough to reset abolish dependence

 

[southeast]

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/725590-Opiate-withdrawl-neck-deep-help-please?p=12403392
I wrote a thread about it when it got really bad and I needed to do 8 things at once and cry all the time to not just shake back and forth crying shitting myself... This is not fun stuff.

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

I am very very well versed in loperamide.

I want to take a short acting opioid for a while so that the withdrawals are only a week long and not months, that is what I am most interested in.

 

[Lorne???]

I am very very well versed in loperamide.

I want to take a short acting opioid for a while so that the withdrawals are only a week long and not months, that is what I am most interested in.

Yes, you can definently do that, as I'm sure you know, switching to a short acting -full agonist to taper from is a tried and true strategy.

However, because of the intense PNS effects of loperamide, I would do a kind of double taper, where you first reduce your lope dose, and then introduce the (typical) full agonist slowly, and after cutting lope dose in half(or preferably even less) drop to the lope, and switch to a conservative dose of the short acting opioid, which you can then rapidly taper from.

Also, I have found a way to get lope across the BBB, without taking massive doses. Doing this not only gets you CNS effects(and thus more complete withdrawal relief) but also yields a MUCH better bioavailability, which in turn reduces the amount going to the intestines, allowing you to avoid some of those particular side effects.

I'll post more later, however, the method, although simple, I am not sure I want to post it publicly, as after truly experimenting with lope, I can tell you that it is most certainly a dangerous, neurotoxicity drug, that yields little benefit,(aside from WD relief), and, even at relatively modest doses, it can cause seriously scary side effects once you get it across the BBB.

LOLZ, I would really like to discuss my experiences with you, as you are indeed well versed in lope, and are trustworthy.

But to everyone else: be careful with this shit, truly it's only purpose is to help WD more bearable.

 

[Numb19]

I am very very well versed in loperamide.

I want to take a short acting opioid for a while so that the withdrawals are only a week long and not months, that is what I am most interested in.

I think if you get the dosage and frequency right as well as the duration, then logically this should work. I've heard loperamide WD is absolutely dreadful in the realm of WD.

What does loperamide do to one's tolerance? Even though it doesn't cross the BBB and has no CNS depression, at 2mg/pop that is still some pretty strong stuff. But if it doesn't reach the opiate receptors in the brain then would this not lower tolerance to opiates that do effect the CNS/brain receptors? As opposed to other typical tapering or maintenance opiates which saturate the brain receptors?

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

Well I haven't taken lope at all for two weeks, until yesterday three days ago I took 86, than 14 yesterday, and ten today. I feel pretty good, but I've also been taking some 3-meo-pcp (NMDA antagonist) and seems that those help with opioid w/d? I dunno, I feel good, I plan to use no more lope and start tomorrow again a short acting opioid for another few weeks, than either taper it, or ct it and endure a week of hell.You can PM me if you want, and I can give you better contact info.

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

Lorne??? I pmed u

 

[Numb19]

Yeah there is scientific literature that indicates NMDA antagonists can help provide some relief from opiate withdrawal. Plus, what you are taking specifically also has dopamine reuptake inhibition properties, which logically should also help with the mental part of wd.

Did you find that stuff having any effect on your tolerance?

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

The lope or the 3meo?

PM me man with a skype name or #

 

[Lorne???]

I think if you get the dosage and frequency right as well as the duration, then logically this should work. I've heard loperamide WD is absolutely dreadful in the realm of WD.

What does loperamide do to one's tolerance? Even though it doesn't cross the BBB and has no CNS depression, at 2mg/pop that is still some pretty strong stuff. But if it doesn't reach the opiate receptors in the brain then would this not lower tolerance to opiates that do effect the CNS/brain receptors? As opposed to other typical tapering or maintenance opiates which saturate the brain receptors?

Exactly, which is eh you have to be careful when switching back to a "typical" full agonist opioid. On one hand, lope only poorly effects the CNS, which means that your tolerance to the classical effects of other opioids, yet lope, when taken at high doses, has VERY strong PNS effects, so it really skews your response to other opioids, hence my suggestion to slowly taper down loperamide while introducing a low dose typical agonist, before dropping lope completely and fully transitioning to the full agonist opioid.

 

[Ian937]

Ok so I have been taking 20-30 mg of lope a day for the last 2.5 months.
I only toom 8mg this morning, and an hour ago took 2 12 mg Exalgo hydromorphones. They are extended release, with a mechanism that I hear is hard to abuse so I just swallowed them. Has anyone noticed if loperamide affects tolerance, i do not feel any mind altering effects from my 20-30 mg doses a day so I am wondering id I will even feel the oral HM.

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

Exactly, which is eh you have to be careful when switching back to a "typical" full agonist opioid. On one hand, lope only poorly effects the CNS, which means that your tolerance to the classical effects of other opioids, yet lope, when taken at high doses, has VERY strong PNS effects, so it really skews your response to other opioids, hence my suggestion to slowly taper down loperamide while introducing a low dose typical agonist, before dropping lope completely and fully transitioning to the full agonist opioid.

Kinda what I was talking about. Exchanging it for a short half life cns and pns agonist for a few months then enduring a week of hell + PAWS instead of a month of hell and extended PAWS.

Tis my theory. We shall see. Also gonna throw in a NMDA

Ok so I have been taking 20-30 mg of lope a day for the last 2.5 months.
I only toom 8mg this morning, and an hour ago took 2 12 mg Exalgo hydromorphones. They are extended release, with a mechanism that I hear is hard to abuse so I just swallowed them. Has anyone noticed if loperamide affects tolerance, i do not feel any mind altering effects from my 20-30 mg doses a day so I am wondering id I will even feel the oral HM.

Hydromorphone should be snorted/plugged as far as I know since the first pass metabolism removes so much. IS the Exalgo undefeatable? If so just try a lope taper and be done with it, unless you have enough exalgos to switch to a short acting opioid then tapering.

 

[Lorne???]

Ok so I have been taking 20-30 mg of lope a day for the last 2.5 months.
I only toom 8mg this morning, and an hour ago took 2 12 mg Exalgo hydromorphones. They are extended release, with a mechanism that I hear is hard to abuse so I just swallowed them. Has anyone noticed if loperamide affects tolerance, i do not feel any mind altering effects from my 20-30 mg doses a day so I am wondering id I will even feel the oral HM.

24mg ER hydromorphone isn't much, anyone with any kind of tolerance isn't going to enjoy that dose.

I'm not sure about exalgo, but I've had ER HM(16, 24mg) and it was easy to abuse. With HM, nasal really is better, but if you could at least break the time-release it wouldn't be so bad.

As for lope and tolerance, it is hard to say, as it can massively increase PNS tolerance, but it barely effects the CNS, so it won't do much there, unless your taking CYP3A4 and/or PGO inhibitors to help it across the BBB(or at the very least, exponentionally increasing the very low oral bioavailability so that more gets into the bloodstream, inevitably leading to some getting in the CNS.

But 20-30mg isn't that much, at that dose they're should be no CNS tolerance whatsoever.( P450 inhibitors not withstanding)

 

[Numb19]

lolwhatzdrugs, u got too much inbox goin' on lol!

 

[d1ahp]

I haven't been able to experience Loperamide ever. One attempt to take more than recommended gave me stomach cramps, which I heard can be attributed to the edible ink as one of the inactive ingredients. Another try with a different brand made me bulge. I take like 5 at first just to feel it out but I've never been able to take more than that because of side effects mentioned above. Any recommendations on what inactive ingredients to avoid?

 

[f33lg00d]

I haven't been able to experience Loperamide ever. One attempt to take more than recommended gave me stomach cramps, which I heard can be attributed to the edible ink as one of the inactive ingredients. Another try with a different brand made me bulge. I take like 5 at first just to feel it out but I've never been able to take more than that because of side effects mentioned above. Any recommendations on what inactive ingredients to avoid?

That's the lope not the inactive ingredients

 

[d1ahp]

I disagree, especially since two brands with two different sets of inactive ingredients caused different unpleasant symptoms.

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

That's the lope not the inactive ingredients

I agree.

I disagree, especially since two brands with two different sets of inactive ingredients caused different unpleasant symptoms.

equate (walmart) and kirkland (costco) brands, I have noticed 0 appreciable difference other than Kirkland is available on Amazon for a more reasonable price.

(bolded are ingredients all three have in common)


Kirkland inactives (source):

Anhydrous Lactose, Carnauba Wax, D&C Yellow No. 10, FD & C Blue No. 1, Hypromellose, Magnesium Stearate, Microcrystalline Cellulose, Polyethylene Glycol, Pregelatinized Starch.

Immodium inactives (never take it, way too expensive) (source):

Colloidal silicon dioxide, diabasic calcium phosphate dihydrate, D&C yellow #10 aluminum lake, FD&C blue #1 aluminum lake, magnesium stearate, microcrystalline cellulose.

Equate inactives (source):

anhydrous citric acid, carboxymethylcellulose sodium, D&C yellow no. 10, FD&C blue no. 1, glycerin, microcrystalline cellulose, natural and artificial mint flavor, propylene glycol, purified water, simethicone, sodium benzoate, sucralose, titanium dioxide, xanthan gum

They are pretty diverse actually with only the coloring and the microcrystalline cellulose being the sole consistent thing across these three preparations - pretty interesting, maybe someone can notice some effect in higher doses. I disagree that equate has sucralose or 'natural and artificial mint flavor' for the pill form. It isn't sweet, and there is no mint flavor - in fact if a equate loperamide spends too much time in your mouth, you will experience in my opinion one of the foulest tasting chemicals around. It's flavor is unmistakable and it's not just bitter, it's very very horrid and hard to describe but once you taste it you know.... Kirkland I actually find to have a better coating, you are less likely to experience any flavor when downing a handful of them.

It also seems odd that equate would have simethicone as an inactive ingredient as it's usually the active ingredient in anti-gas products, decreasing surface tension of gas bubbles in the gut, I wonder why it's in only equate, and if it's in quantities are physiologically insignificant?

Anyone else have an opinion/experience about the differences in brands, their altered inactive and their subjective effect?