Long term MDMA effects

[acidfax]

I haven't been on this site in YEARS so I apologize if this was already discussed. I tried doing a search and while I found some relevant info, I couldn't find anything that discussed effects of rolling after having not done it in years.

It's been over three years since I've rolled (up until last night, but we'll forget about that for now).
I stopped rolling because I started to have severe anxiety and panic attacks. I always had them since I my first roll (I've only rolled on eight occasions, I think, and always one or less tablet/capsul). I have a very low tolerance for drugs. Even when I drink alcohol, which isn't very often, 2 shots can get me almost drunk and extremely hung over. That being said, one roll has me tripping like crazy.

Well, as the three years went by, I always had the anxiety. It became less frequent but never went away. It has become manageable so I never did see a doctor for it.
About a year ago I started working out and noticed my heart rate gets abnormally high. I would have a slight dull pain in my chest from time to time and random bursts of a rapid strong heart beat. I had blood work and and EKG done at the doctors and everything was fine so they had me do the treadmill stress test. After 4 minutes of powerwalking an incline I was up to 199 bpm. I stopped there because I was exhausted but I have gone up to 220 at the gym on the elliptical. My cardiologist said it "puzzled" him as to why it was so high without me fainting or being light headed. Simple things like standing up from laying down on the bed caused spikes on the EKG fron the stress test. They also did an ultrasound on my heart which came out normal and couldn't figure out what was causing it. I was supposed to have more tests done but I moved to another state.

Currently, my new doctor did an EKG again, which was fine and blood work. She said my thyroid was a little low which is probably causing my symptoms but it's not low enough to medicate. She doesn't seem to want to do more tests but I honestly don't believe it's my thyroid because my last doctor would have caught it in my blood tests. She also said it's not low enough to be a problem and could change in a few days and be normal again, so how would that cause my symptoms over the past year?! Maybe I had it longer than that but always took it for anxiety.

My question is, is it possible to have effects last this long? My doctor said it's not possible having been three years, but what if something got messed up back then and it just started to get worse recently? I have no known family history of any heart problems besides high blood pressure, which I don't have.
I don't know if it's an issue with my heart tissue, or it's the part of my brain that controls my heart beat. I just feel really confused and frustrated with my doctor as I feel she doesn't know anything and doesn't seem to want to refer me to a cardiologist, or I suppose neurologist if that's what's causing this.

Anyway, foolishly, I rolled last night. I figured it had been a while since I last did and there was great music so why not. I had a third of a capsule which normally could get me somewhat buzzed but it sucked, and half of a molly an hour or so later. It was nice and not too intense for me but the come down was terrible and I couldn't sleep. I was instantly reminded of all that anxiety I used to have and now I have a little pressure on the middle of my chest.
Yes, it was stupid considering I don't even know what's going on with my tachycardia and I definitely don't plan on doing it again.

Sorry for writing such a long post. I hope someone has some insight or similar experiences they can share. It would be much appreciated!

 

[Darksidesam]

You see when you was 'rolling' , how often was you taking the mdma?

Once a week? Once a month? More? Less?

 

[acidfax]

You see when you was 'rolling' , how often was you taking the mdma?

Once a week? Once a month? More? Less?

Like once a month, if even.

I also did coke twice but don't think that could have affected me long term, could it?

 

[happygirl29]

I have the same thing, they also medicated me for thyroid which made it all worse, the heart palps come and go , I get random panic attacks etc. As soon as you roll again the brain remembers the bad feelings and the panic mode switches itself on again. I believe its our subconscious brains trying to protect our bodies from taking more and we go into this mode as the brain tries to protect itself. I stopped rolling for 13 years but as soon as I started again all this stuff started happening again.

 

[acidfax]

I have the same thing, they also medicated me for thyroid which made it all worse, the heart palps come and go , I get random panic attacks etc. As soon as you roll again the brain remembers the bad feelings and the panic mode switches itself on again. I believe its our subconscious brains trying to protect our bodies from taking more and we go into this mode as the brain tries to protect itself. I stopped rolling for 13 years but as soon as I started again all this stuff started happening again.

Even during those years you weren't rolling, did you still have anxiety/panic attacks and random heart palpitations?

I don't plan to ever roll again but I'm worried that I'm stuck with this problem.

 

[Darksidesam]

did you have anxiety or experience anxiety before taking any drugs?

 

[acidfax]

did you have anxiety or experience anxiety before taking any drugs?

No. I never had anxiety, panic attacks, depression, or any type of heart palpitation issues ever. It wasn't until I tried E that all these issues began to happen, and is why I stopped.

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Fluttering persistent chest pain was the very first clue I had that something was wrong.
This was two months before my near-fatal episode of serotonin syndrome that caused long-term anxiety, head-pressure, HPPD, derealization....the whole list. Almost two years later I am still wondering when the symptoms will stop changing...

Yet chest-pain was not just the precursor.
It was the hallmark symptom of serotonin syndrome.
It was also the very FIRST symptom to arise - I went from feeling completely normal to DYING of a HEART ATTACK in a single moment.
The chest pain was SO severe I was certain that it would kill me.
For ten minutes I endured tachycardia that would normally occur only after sprinting!

During the recovery process I had intermittent chest pain, on both sides of the chest.
But the left side always felt different - I could tell it interfered with my heart-beat.
And it bothered me quite a lot.

Some people that have taken MDMA back up after a long period of abstinence have reported severe tachycardia and chest pain during the experience. I'm glad that didn't happen to you during the comeup, because it is a very uncomfortable experience.

In all my research I could never figure out how the serotonin system directly influences heart rate.
I found out that a small region of the brain, the hypothalamus, may be the cause.
It controls body-temperature, digestion, and heart-rate - and it is highly innervated by serotonin.
It is the commander of the endocrine and adrenal system, too! Making it a very powerful yet small region of the brain.

It turns out the hypothalamus is a relay station for the serotonin nerves that extend from the brainstem into the frontal lobes.
And the relationship between the hypothalamus, serotonin, and the frontal lobes is CRITICAL.
The effects of MDMA and SSRI antidepressants gain their effect by influencing this HPA axis.

MDMA is neurotoxic.
It particularly targets the serotonin nerves in the highest regions of the brain, the prefrontal cortex.
Here they are thinnest and most-fiber like, nothing more than axonal extensions from distant cell bodies.
And this is where they are most vulnerable.

Activation of the prefrontal cortex is what gives MDMA (and SSRIs) their empathogenic effects.
And many others...

Yet research has clearly shown that when neurotoxic damage from MDMA does occur, the prefrontal region remains de-nervated and the hypothalamus which is closer to the brainstem is hyper-innervated.
Some recovery DOES occur, very slowly.
But even after many years of abstinence, there is substantial evidence in primates and humans that serotonin recovery is incomplete and the HPA or hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis fails to restore normal function.

Hyper-prolactinemia, dopamine imbalance, adrenal fatigue...changes in gene expression....the list goes on.

Serontonin also inhibits neurons from functioning, which is normally a good thing.
But if a region of the brain responsible for the metabolic processes around the body and the hormone/emotion center of the mind is innervate with TOO much serotonin, this is potentially the CAUSE of anxiety and chest pain.

Of course the hypothalamus alone is the not the cause, because the changes seen here represent greater changes that impact many other brain regions. But direct serotonin inhibition of hypothalamic heart-rate regulation is a good place to start.

I thought this was it until I learned about the VAGUS nerve.
It is also VERY important to anxiety, digestion, and heart-rate.
It is one of the six cranial nerves that enter the brain directly through the brainstem, not the spinal cord.

It has a vast innervation in the intestines, which is also the location of nearly all your serotonin.
On the way up it also grabs the lungs and the heart...

In the brain it eventually connects to the hypothalamus too.

So we have the serotonin nerve system, which is responsible for digestion above all else, the vagus nerve which sends information about bodily functions (like digestion) constantly to the brain, and the HPA axis which is highly interactive with BOTH of these two nerve systems...

This is the best scientific explanation I can offer you.

Will you live with this condition forever?
Not likely, although it may take a few more years to subside.

I HIGHLY recommend exercise, because it has allowed me to entirely escape ALL chest pain.
Around eleven months into recovery my last flutter happened, anything since simply hasn't bothered me at all...
I have loads of personal experience that really points to the conclusion - exercise causes changes in brain function that CURED me of ongoing chest pain.

I should point out that it can also cause temporary flare-up in symptoms!
But that is a price you must be willing to pay, after all you are rewiring your brain.
Trust me that it makes a difference especially with anxiety and heart palps.

Will MDMA always cause a worsening of this for you?
Maybe.
You should count on it until at least five years has passed.
I have seen anecdotes on BL that said 3-4 wasn't enough to prevent strong chest pain during the roll.

The good news is that lots of people have 'anxiety attacks' that involve strong chest pain and tachycardia, and it does NOT lead to heart disease. In fact it can actually increase heart strength in a way similar to exercise!
Although people that are already suffering from heart disease might be at risk during panic attacks.

In other words, people that have severe panic attacks that feel like heart attacks do NOT die.
But they might feel like they are going to.
I suspect that the brains of such people are undergoing real changes with each panic attack, probably at the hypothalamus.

I hope this wasn't too much information.
EKGs and blood tests will reveal nothing, so stop wasting money on them.
If you want to test something it should be cortisol and prolactin, which are markers of HPA function.
Good luck.

 

[happygirl29]

FBC you are a wealth of information and I can tell you after 13 years of abstinance I still had horrendous issues when trying to do MDMA ....I am still not recovered enough to do almost anything

 

[happygirl29]

Yes they come and go especially if I partake in almost any substance or when I take certain medications or supplements.

 

[Jabberwocky]

FBC you are a wealth of information and I can tell you after 13 years of abstinance I still had horrendous issues when trying to do MDMA ....I am still not recovered enough to do almost anything

Ask yourself how silly you would sound if you said

"after 13 years I still have horrendous issues when taking pennicillin" -- (and you're allergic)

What FBC describes is classic Panic/aniety -- can it be caused by HPA axis dysregulation? -- yup alcohol withdrawal does the same thing

DOES any of the scary brain damage stuff (caused by MDMA) FBC stated as fact, have any evidence in humans? -- NOPE -- there is zero evidence of axonal damage, nor hyperinnervation in humans from MDMA exposure -- ZERO

Are there some studies that show people who used MDMA have different levels of activity WRT serotonin activity -- yup

Are the sample sizes enough to make the differences statistically significant? -- NOPE

Are there plenty of other things that could cause the difference, and have nothing to do with taking illegal drugs? -- YUP

 

[EnlightenedOne1]

IT'S ALL SUBJECTIVE AND PSYCHOLOGICAL (to a degree) !!! This isn't quite the accolade albeit I don't know anyone who abused more Mdxx substances than I did (as well as ALWAYS mixing it with heroic dosages of other drugs) , and I'm the picture of physical health (bloodwork, labs over half a decade's worth to validate)... However, I always suffered with manic depression, anxiety, etc...and besides Methamphetamine, Mdxx substances are HIGHLY neurotoxic and definitely exacerbated all of my problems as I move into my older years and over 3 years clean from MDMA...My last blowout was NYE 3 years ago and I ate 4.7 grams of PUUURE MDXX from chemist in a 48 period and what ensued just wasn't worth it...I simply said "I'll never do E again." And I haven't...

Time is your biggest friend here but NOTHING speeds up the process like exercise and nutrition. PM me for tips.

 

[scrwed]

Everybody says time, but how long? I abused the shit (perhaps 100+ or nearly 200 pills within 18 months or so). It has been one year since i quit and i still have anhedonia, lack of sex drive and ed :/