• BASIC DRUG
    DISCUSSION
    Welcome to Bluelight!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Benzo Chart Opioids Chart
    Drug Terms Need Help??
    Drugs 101 Brain & Addiction
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums
  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Liver Problems?

embryo923

embryo923

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 5, 2014
Messages
192
I took Five 10/325mg Oxycodone/APAP yesterday, combined with a small dose of klonopin. I know that's not a smart combination but my tolerance to opiates is high and 50mg on its own wouldn't do anything.

Today I woke up feeling good, just real tired. Then I started reading about APAP and liver failure and realized I have one symptom, which is pain in my upper right quadrant, basically the upper right part of my back, below the armpit, where the larger part of the liver is. Needless to say I'm pretty freaked out. I also did DXM the day before, about 450mg.

I weigh 140 lbs and am in my mid 20's. Should I be concerned, seek medical attention? I actually was planning on doing that combination of Oxy/Apap and klonopin again today but now it seems like a bad idea. I haven't had any nausea or vomiting, or yellowing of skin. My back only hurts when I flex or move certain ways, but it's definitely only my upper right quadrant.

So basically I took about 1625mg of APAP in one sitting. I'm freaked out, never had this kind of pain before, even after doing box of CCC's (before I knew how bad they were for you). Should I go to the ER or just wait and see if my condition improves/worsens?
 
Are there any other symptoms besides the upper right quadrant pain?
Puking? Is your Mind feeling slower than usual?
Its very very unlikely that only 5 percs did liver damage I know someone who has taken 40 a day for years. I had apap poisoning before but it was from 5-6 years of steady T3s and percs/vicodin daily and in retarded doses well exceeding 10 000 mgs a day of acetaminophen.

Upper right quadrant pain could be many things it could be your stomach/intestine (have you taken laxatives? That can do it if i take laxatives i get upper right quadrent pain the day after even constipation can cause this pain) it could be your gallbladder even which can also be affected by apap intake but unless you've taken apap for years or have an extreme sensitivity to apap then I don't see that bit of acetaminophen doing any of that to you. Do you take apap often?

The daily limit for acetaminophen is 4000 mgs a day so I wouldn't worry too much. If it gets unbearable or you are really concered something isn't right then go to a hospital. If you notice any yellowing of skin or eyes or puking blood/ bile get yourself help immediately.
 
Trains right, it's probably not the apap. I used to take 8-10k mg a day for a few yrs and only got a slight tweek feel in my liver towards the end of that run. If it is the apap it'll pass in a day or 2 probably ime...
 
^^^ yea man and I was thinking he could have just freaked himself out by reading about it on the internet. It could be many things but I'm 95 percent certain it will pass when you wake up tomorrow. But you know your body best I can't do an exam on you over the internet so if you feel something isn't right then don't chance it just go get checked out.
 
Actually, I wrote a document here about APAP and the concerns. I will try and find it and post the link. 4000MG is way to high. The FDA limit is actually much lower then that somewhere between 2000-3000. Also you have to remember that everyone's system is different, everyone's metabolism is different, and everyone's history s different. If you have a habit of abusing your liver with high amounts of APAP, and you do a lot of other drugs / medication, your liver may be far more sensitive. Also please keep in mind that your liver does not just sit around waiting for APAP and only metabolize that, you liver has a hand in metabolizing just about everything you ingest, inject, inhale. So, it's not just the fact that you took all the percs, what else did you take that day? What kinds of foods do you eat? What it your over all health like?

Let me just say this, I have liver disease, so if anyone knows a thing or two about the liver, it would be me. While I do not think that a one time dose of 1600mg of APAP will do much hard to a person who is in excellent health and who doesn't abuse their liver, I can not say the same to someone who has a habit of being rough on their liver. Weekend warriors think that just because they slam their beers on the weekend and are good all week, that they are being easier on their liver then someone who drinks 2-3 beers every night of the week, truth is the weekend warrior is going to be the one who OD's and has a sudden and serious problem because they are more likely to OD in a single sitting.

While I can not say if you have done any damage that could warrant you needing to goto the hospital, mainly because I don't know anything else about you, and your only having that pain (which could very well be a symptom that your liver is telling you to chill out) I will say that when it comes to your liver you should always play it safer then sorry. You damage your liver like me, and you are basically screwed. Please be careful. Please do not do that again! If you start having additional symptoms go see your Dr! Remember, be safe, not sorry!

Let me see if I can find that document for you. You need to read it!


Please see this post, it could save your life!

APAP, How much is too much?
Pain
 
Thank you guys for the responses. I am oddly not feeling the pain as much anymore. It's been over 24 hours since I dosed last. I am also freaking out because I took those pills from my uncle and he's going to notice they were missing lol....it's not funny though. I have to come up with something to tell him...I guess the truth works best! I am a recovering addict, don't leave fucking opiates out in the open when I'm here!
 
Yea good to hear I don't know what to say to your uncle besides the truth that's up to you though.
4000mgs is generally the accepted limit but everyone is different like I said before some are more sensitive.
I've had acetaminophen poisoning and it isn't fun so be careful with the apap and try doing Cold water extractions if you relapse again. Lucky your liver heals itself pretty good with time but you have to give it a chance to repair itself.
You should get some blood tests done to check your liver function while your at it just to see how much damage your liver has taken before its too late and it starts failing.
 
Make sure you guys read my post. 4000mg used to be the acceptable limit, but the FDA lowered it to 3 grams or 3000mg within a 24 hour period. The document I wrote was written from facts taken from the FDA's official guidelines. Regardless, I do agree with trainspotter in that you should get your liver function test done especially since it sounds like this is not the first time that you have taken high doses of APAP among other drugs like DMX another hard hitter on the liver. Please keep in mind though that you need to keep in mind other things you have taken within that 24 hours. If you have taken DMX and then 3 grams of APAP, you are still hurting yourself. Yes your with in the daily limit that the FDA has placed on APAP, but for everything else you have taken, the acceptable limit of APAP will go down.

Like I said, you need to take a look at all the other things you are taking in that 24 hr period. The liver isn't just there to metabolize APAP, it's there to metabolize every toxin and every chemical, protein whatever that enters your system. You need to be careful. Need I remind you again that I have end stage liver disease. I know what it takes to cause a liver to fail. I do not want to see anyone else go through the pain and misery that I went through and STILL live with.

Trainspotter, I just ask that you please note the lowered acceptable limit of APAP daily. In the interest of harm reduction I would hope that you would want to give people the corrected limit which is 3 grams or 3000mg. That is takendirectly from the FDA's official website on APAP. I didn't just make that number up.

I apologize as I don't like to correct anyone, except I am not the one that changed the limit, they did and that is what all Dr's now use as the reference point. I'm only mentioning this because it is important for anyone who may be at risk such as our buddy embryo, as it is important if he were to goto his Dr and say that he has kept his APAP intake to the daily limit, he / she is going to be going by the 3 gram limit which means that he could have the wrong impression as too how much he has really taken. I hope it's OK that I pointed out the correct, I just want everyone to be safe.

Peace!

Pain
 
The FDA did drop it not to long ago from 4k to 3k but this is not an alcoholic situation like you and I had. I just don't want to have the dude spend all kinds of money on crazy tests when he said the pain is fading.
Were pill poppers who know what pill poppers go through, that little tweek pain fades after a run on apap/oxy, like the op said. I just don't think it's nessecary to spend thousands on all kinda tests and doctor fees. If it's really an outta control pain then yes, by all means get the tests but he said the pain is already fading and I think that's something a lot if us pill poppers can relate to. If we went for tests everytime we had a pain we'd be destitute. I'm just saying this cause I've done the same drugs and have felt the same tweeks(annoying little pains) as the op. It's also hr to not have the op spending thousands on drs and tests for a pain that most pill poppers have had. No disrespect to your opinion but your situation differs from the ops quite a bit...
 
I agree that he doesn't need all kinds of test, but what I wrote in that document was not an opinion it is a fact from their web site and had nothing to do with drinking or popping pills. They lowered the limit because APAP is in so many different medications now, and because it wasn't taking into account any other scenario's such health, daily routines, habits, whatever. The new 3 gram limit is across the board. I am not sure if you read my document, or if you checked their website but I can assure you that they limit has nothing to do with drinking. Just check out my post and the FDA website, infact feel free to Google it. I also was not trying to compare his situation to mine, and mine is not from pills, I got liver disease from being an alcoholic and then because I was caught up in my drinking I ignored a kidney infection which caused me to go into full kidney and liver failure. I am not recommending he go for any tests right now, in fact, I only recommended that the next time he has a Dr appointment he should also have his liver function test checked, but that was based on his post that this is apparently not the first time he has taken high amounts of APAP as well as other drugs like DXM. I even mentioned that not unless he had other symptoms should he seek emergency care.

I try never to share my opinions and I try to base everything on fact. I will share my story, but that is not meant as an instruction to others, I am just trying to share what I have been through so others don't make similar mistakes. Again, I am not bringing up opinion. I hope this doesn't come across as arguing cause I am not trying to do that either. I just don't want my posts to be taken out of context which is what I think happened here. I agree with everything your saying and you and I are completely on the same page with the only exception being the purpose of the APAP limit. I can assure you that if you read the FDA page and read my document you will understand where I am coming from and it has nothing to due with them lowering it for people who drink alot. The change was made across the board. Trust me, just read the two places you'll see.

Either way, I agree he should not go get all kinds of tests done, but at the same time, he needs to be careful and he should not be doing that amount of perc's every night or he very well may wind up with problems. It is completely possible that the pain he had either had nothing at all to do with his ingesting the perc's or it could have been his liver warning him that he needs to take it easy. I am not his Dr and I don't know what his blood work looks like so I have no clue which situation he falls under, but he needs to be careful. That's all I am saying :)

Hell his pain could have just been because he needed to let one rip and is he did, he may have felt better, works for me sometimes! lmao!! IDK lol :D
 
Yeah brother I feel what your saying. I misconstrued and thought u wanted him to get checked immediately, I must've misunderstood, no biggie. I just don't think he's in danger ATM.
I did read your post and responded to it also but you must've not read it yet. I totally feel where your coming from and it's a good place, it's cool brother, I'm not big on arguing either so no biggie. I agree he took to much and should've used cwe but before I found bluelight I never heard of it so I consumed mass amounts of apap out of ignorance. I just think I know exactly where op is coming from cause I did the same shit and I feel I had the same pain but without the anxiety hat the op had because I knew, at the time, that the FDA limit was 4k, that was some time ago cause I'm an old fucker like u lol.
How does op breach this subject with his dr? Let's remember that op, like me, enjoys his opiate scripts? If he says he ate 5 10mg Oxys then he gets a black mark on his records and will never recieve an oxy script even if he's in extreme pain cause they now think he's a junky.
There's a lot of things pill poppers must take into account before their totally honest with a dr.
There's just a little different angle when your doc is pharmacuticals...
 
Sounds cool Cliffy! I am glad we are on the same page, makes me feel better :)

As for the OP and how he can raise the topic with his Dr, he could just try the honesty with omission. He wouldn't be lying to his Dr, at the same time, not telling him the entire story. If he hasn't had blood work done in a very long time, he could simply say that he wants to have a physical done and just wants to get an idea of his overall health. Normally Dr's will do blood work every year even for healthy people. That's one way to get the blood work done, or if there is any history in the family, he could always use the let's rule out family history route. There are a number of ways he could go about asking for the tests with out mentioning that he's got an issue with opiates. Sometimes you just have too be slick with your words :)

I also agree that CWE would have been his best route especially when he's only working wit the perc's. But I don't think that is going to be too much of an issue going forward since he was taking them from a family member. Something tells me he won't get away with that too much longer :)

I have had the pains from pushing my liver too, however, always remember that the limits are just guidelines and don't apply to everyone in every situation. So while we may have guidelines from the FDA, what we always need to ask ourselves is, do those limits pertain to me, am I doing anything that would cause that limit to be larger or smaller? I have known people who have taken over 6 grams in a 24 hour period with no ill effects at all, but if you or I took 6 grams, we would probably be writing our own death sentence or at least guaranteeing ourselves a trip to the ER. So as I like to say, it's all relevant.

I think that if he just uses the physical route he could certainly get the blood work done with no curiosity from his Dr. That would be how I might go about it, but again, I agree, he there is no emergency right now. One symptom of the pain certainly does not warrant an emergency unless this is a habitual thing and the pain gets worse or he starts having other symptoms. In that case, then the truth regardless is the best policy as life and health are far more important than making sure you can score again. :)

High 5 Cliffy we are right on bro! :) And a high 5 to you Embryo, you will be just fine my friend, just don't make a habit of this, and if you do, please consider CWE (Cold Water Extraction) to get the Oxycodone out of the perc's with out the risk, (or a much lesser risk depending on how well you do the CWE) of having complications from the APAP. Best of luck! :)
 
Last edited:
Thousands on tests??? Jeez I forgot you guys live in the states I have had them done many times for free they just draw blood send it to a lab and let you know what your count is if its below a certain level they usually get you on a treatment regimen and if they are really low then your usually told you don't have much time to live.

Yea it seems to vary each doctors opinion usually depending on where they live to how much is safe in a 24 hour period some say 4000 some say 3250 either way 4000mgs a day isnt going to be much harder on a person than 3250mgs is its still a respectable dose everybody is different doctors still prescribe 4000+mgs of apap a day to patients.
Its not good to be taking multiple products containing apap unknowingly this is how serious damage usually happens to the liver. http://www.drugwatch.com/2014/01/28/fda-limits-acetaminophen-liver-damage/

I've always wondered how my moms liver is still good she has taken around 50- 325mg Tylenol with codeine each day for 15 years now and her liver isn't giving her greif yet mine gave out after 6 years of 10 000 mgs a day. Goes to show how different we all are and how hard it is to come up with a set number for everyone to follow. Your post was from 2011 and is from the USA I'm Canadian we still belive 4000mgs a day is fine.
 
Last edited:
Really appreciate all the responses, and I hope this will help inform anyone else who has this question. You guys are great. I need to give back to the community and offer information and support to others as well. I usually post on dextroverse.org, but that's mainly a DXM site, and people give a lot of contradictory answers.
 
Trainspotter, as you said very clearly, Yea it seems to vary each doctors opinion usually depending on where they live to how much is safe in a 24 hour period". It is very different, and it's also very different depending on the persons life circumstances. The numbers will be different person to person, that is why the FDA sets guidelines, but they are there for best practices but as we all have said here is no "one size fits all number".

Yes, my document is from 2011, based on the document issued by the FDA, in the US, that is still in effect as of today. These are only guidelines. The 3 grams is what the Dr's here use as their guidelines, of course that will be tailored to each person. Just for example, my Dr's have given me a 0 tolerance, that means that I am not allowed to consume anything that has APAP and technically, my diet is supposed to follow as well, but it's very difficult for me to follow that lol I like to eat and I live to eat everything I am not supposed to ;) but this is not about me, I just wanted to throw out that example.

As for the tests, they can be very expensive though with decent insurance one should not have to pay too much, but the last time I had a full metabolic panel and liver enzyme tests, the bill sent to medicare was over $500. So while $1000's was certainly used as an exaggeration, I think the point was that is can be quite expensive regardless of who is paying the bill.

Regardless of us all going back and forth over the details, what is important is that we give the OP the best advise we can give. That's why he came here and that's what we all have given. We are all head strong and sometimes we can let our opinions get in the way of our best advise. That's part of the reason I love to give just the facts, share my experiences, and let the OP decide what is best for him/her since we don't really know what else may be going on that could have an effect on the right answer.

Thank you btw for posting the link for the CWE! My laptop is running horribly tonight and when I went to look for that earlier, my browser was running so slow I couldn't bring it up. I haven't read the one you posted yet, however, i do know that there is an awesome one written here by one of the Bluelight members as well if anyone is interested in comparing notes, though I am sure they will be very similar, if not the same.

I know I sometimes can let my life circumstances get in the way of my best advise because I tend to take posts about liver concerns very personally because my issues almost killed me and I spent a lot of time absolutely miserable, extremely sick and in a lot of pain. I still do not know how much time I have left, though I have out lived my Dr's estimates. I was supposed to have been 6 ft under by now, and some how I am not. So I do apologize to all if I let my emotions get in the way of the OP getting the best advise possible, it certainly is not personal against anyone. I just have spent many month researching all things liver related which is one of the reasons I wrote that document here for Blue regarding APAP. I truly and honestly mean the best for all when I post, so please understand that my intention is always to give the best possible advise to the OP in hopes that no one makes any mistakes that could land them in the misery I have had to live through. There are times in my life where I am so happy, and feel absolutely blessed (while I am agnostic I just can't think of a better word then blessed! :) ) that I am still alive, and I think that the reason I am still here is to help others. To keep others from falling into the traps I fell into.

I only wish the best for everyone! :)

Peace,

Pain
 
embryo923 said:
I need to give back to the community and offer information and support to others as well. I usually post on dextroverse.org, but that's mainly a DXM site, and people give a lot of contradictory answers.
Click to expand...

Hey Emdryo, regardless of where you post, giving back and helping other has been a great way to keep myself sober. I have not had a drink in over 5 years now and one thing that has kept me strong is giving back and helping others. It gives me a purpose. One reason for me to be happy that I am still here, when according to the Dr's I should have not made it as long as I have.

So to your post, Cheer's mate!! :)
 
painenduser said:
Trainspotter, as you said very clearly, Yea it seems to vary each doctors opinion usually depending on where they live to how much is safe in a 24 hour period". It is very different, and it's also very different depending on the persons life circumstances. The numbers will be different person to person, that is why the FDA sets guidelines, but they are there for best practices but as we all have said here is no "one size fits all number".

Yes, my document is from 2011, based on the document issued by the FDA, in the US, that is still in effect as of today. These are only guidelines. The 3 grams is what the Dr's here use as their guidelines, of course that will be tailored to each person. Just for example, my Dr's have given me a 0 tolerance, that means that I am not allowed to consume anything that has APAP and technically, my diet is supposed to follow as well, but it's very difficult for me to follow that lol I like to eat and I live to eat everything I am not supposed to ;) but this is not about me, I just wanted to throw out that example.

As for the tests, they can be very expensive though with decent insurance one should not have to pay too much, but the last time I had a full metabolic panel and liver enzyme tests, the bill sent to medicare was over $500. So while $1000's was certainly used as an exaggeration, I think the point was that is can be quite expensive regardless of who is paying the bill.

Regardless of us all going back and forth over the details, what is important is that we give the OP the best advise we can give. That's why he came here and that's what we all have given. We are all head strong and sometimes we can let our opinions get in the way of our best advise. That's part of the reason I love to give just the facts, share my experiences, and let the OP decide what is best for him/her since we don't really know what else may be going on that could have an effect on the right answer.

Thank you btw for posting the link for the CWE! My laptop is running horribly tonight and when I went to look for that earlier, my browser was running so slow I couldn't bring it up. I haven't read the one you posted yet, however, i do know that there is an awesome one written here by one of the Bluelight members as well if anyone is interested in comparing notes, though I am sure they will be very similar, if not the same.

I know I sometimes can let my life circumstances get in the way of my best advise because I tend to take posts about liver concerns very personally because my issues almost killed me and I spent a lot of time absolutely miserable, extremely sick and in a lot of pain. I still do not know how much time I have left, though I have out lived my Dr's estimates. I was supposed to have been 6 ft under by now, and some how I am not. So I do apologize to all if I let my emotions get in the way of the OP getting the best advise possible, it certainly is not personal against anyone. I just have spent many month researching all things liver related which is one of the reasons I wrote that document here for Blue regarding APAP. I truly and honestly mean the best for all when I post, so please understand that my intention is always to give the best possible advise to the OP in hopes that no one makes any mistakes that could land them in the misery I have had to live through. There are times in my life where I am so happy, and feel absolutely blessed (while I am agnostic I just can't think of a better word then blessed! :) ) that I am still alive, and I think that the reason I am still here is to help others. To keep others from falling into the traps I fell into.

I only wish the best for everyone! :)

Peace,

Pain
Click to expand...

Yea man I know you had the best intention I've been through liver damage myself although not nearly as bad as yours (I'm not a big drinker) let's all agree its always best to use the LOWEST possible dose of acetaminophen. At least he doesn't have the old 500/5mg percs or vicodin those were terrible for people who took the pills daily and its amazing how many people taking these pills don't even know that they contain acetaminophen and that taking an extra strength Tylenol with it could be damaging to their liver.
Im just saying its different all over and where I'm from doctors go by 4000mgs I just wanted to say that so you didn't think I was giving bad HR advice to the OP and I suppose my arrogance comes into play a bit too haha but we all want the best for the OP acetaminophen poisoning is No joke after all.

I'm sorry to hear about your pain and your liver damage I'm actually not supposed to take any acetaminophen products either after moving from ratio oxycet 6mg/500mg (canadas percocet)and Tylenol 3s prescribed over to buprenorphine (Suboxone) because of me losing control and always running out (along with liver damage from all the apap in those drugs). Lately though I've been taking Tylenol almost daily as I have a herniated disc from working forestry here in Canada I find the mix of buprenorphine and acetaminophen helps my chronic pain so much better. I also have diverticulitis so I can relate to the living in pain also its tough some days you feel you can handle it and others you just want to give up and end it all. But we keep fighting
 
Last edited:
And that's crazy about the price of getting the test done whenever I read about people in the states scared to get checked out or get a test done because of the almighty dollar I really appreciate Canada's healthcare system (even if we do have some of the highest cost of living in North America along with taxes it really is worth it in the end we really do still have the same freedom and way of life as people in the USA. It kills me to hear people say oh I can't go to the hospital I don't have cash I wish I could help them all out and I would if I was rich.
 
1600 mg APAP isn't really enough to bust your liver, but if you want a little peace of mind you can go get a physical, they will draw blood and check liver function - look at the ALT and AST numbers. I take about 1500 mg APAP as my usual dose of hydro / oxy (once a week) and have never had any liver problems, I get it checked every 6 months because I take Lipitor. I also get a pain regularly in the upper right quadrant which turns out to be because I have a post-operative cyst since I had my gall bladder removed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top