Let's talk terminology you Chemistry and English majors

[MrPitt]

I love words and am vastly confused by them as well. I have several different types of terminological questions. There is so much information out there I am trying to make sure I am associating things correctly.

First: I am trying to associate substances into classes. A lot of these questions will be analogies.

Is THC a cannabinoid in the same way DXM is a morphinan?
Is Ethanol an alcohol in the same way LSA is a lysergamide?
Under this train of thought would nicotine be a parasympathomimetic alkloid?

Am I understanding this correctly?

I know this is a weird way to ask this but can you guys make sense of this?

Second: what is the difference in -pams vs -lams in the world of benzodiazepines. What do these suffixes mean and do they differentiate between the two? For example Clonazepam and Clonazolam. What makes their names different?

 

[aced126]

Your first 3 questions are all right.

In clonazepam, the c probably represents the 2'-chloro substituent, the n represents the 7-nitro substituent, the zepam represents a 1,4-benzodiazepin-2-one structure.

In clonazolam, the "azolam" part of the name represents a 1,4-benzodiazepine ring fused to a triazole ring.

 

[belligerent drunk]

First: I would say that you're confusing drug classes (which are assigned according to pharmacology) with molecular structures. DXM coming from a morphinan class means it has a morphinan backbone, a structural element. Ethanol being an alcohol means it has hydroxyl group somewhere in its structure. But they describe structure. So I would say that DXM is a morphinan in the same way LSA is a lysergamide, and I guess you could put ethanol being an alcohol in there too, but THC being a cannabinoid and nicotine a parasympathomimetic has more to do with its pharmacology than strictly molecular structure. Just like opioids vary vastly in their structure, so do (synthetic)cannabinoids, so I wouldn't say it can be used as a structural identifier. Both DXM and morphine are morphinans yet one is a dissociative, other opioid - an example of it being different the other way round.

The reason I don't want to put alcohols among lysergamides or morphinans is because a hydroxyl group is a functional group while the others are fairly large structural elements (you could argue that a hydroxyl is a structural element as well, though). For example, cholesterol is an alcohol among other things yet it's vastly different from ethanol or isopropanol in its physical or chemical properties.

 

[spacejunk]

I have a degree in English, but the intricacies of chemical nomenclature were not a major focus of the curriculum.
They weren't even a minor focus!
Having said that, a considerable number of the writers and theorists I studied possessed an undoubted enthusiasm for pharmacology; specifically, that which altered their sensory perception and consciousness.

I'm admittedly rather ignorant when it comes to a lot of pharm/chem discussion - but i share your passion for words, OP, and find the naming conventions of drugs and chemicals really fascinating.
Even though my understanding of the subject is embarassingly limited (i didn't study chemistry in high school past the age of 14 or something, sadly) - i always loved reading the elaborate names of chemicals, such as the list of ingredients on labels of shampoo bottles as a kid - and thinking I wonder how you pronounce that?

Quite large proportion of the words that make up the English language are technical scientific terms - a whole sub-category of linguistics, but - I believe (?) - much more logical and methodical than English itself, which is a very inconsistent melange of languages and some rather contradictory and confusing conventions, as they apply to spelling, pronounciation and such.

From my (scientifically uninformed) perspective, the naming conventions of chemicals and other scientific terminology is pretty fascinating.
At least, I think it is.
To be honest, i feel like my response here is totally unworthy of this particular subforum - just a bunch of rambling commentary with very little insight.
I really appreciate the knowledge of these subjects as it is contributed by bluelight's many scientific scholars.

I am often reminded how little I comprehend, when i read things that are far beyond my understanding in this, and other BL sub-forums, due to the academic paths I took.
Which is not to say that one is more valid than the other - they are simply applicable to different areas of human knowledge. In the context of (psychoactive) drugs - at a somewhat academic level - some knowledge of pharmacology, chemistry and neuroscience is essential when, particularly when it comes to harm reduction.

In other words, don't ask me - i don't have a clue! (Not that i speak for all "English majors", of course).
Much respect to the Neuroscience and Pharmacology Discussion regulars - the Bluelight brains-trust.

 

[belligerent drunk]

In other words, don't ask me - i don't have a clue! (Not that i speak for all "English majors", of course).

Thanks for the post, spacejunk! I have to agree that you don't necessarily have to speak good English in order to use proper terminology in science, the two are rather distinct and not intertwined that much. Take me for example - my English definitely leaves a lot to be desired even though it's not my first or even second language, but I don't speak other languages any better - I tend to speak in a too informal and blunt way. Nevertheless, I always try to use the correct terminology when it comes to sciences. And yes, the technical part of a language is more strict and logical than the rest, I suppose. It has to be, to a certain extent of course, otherwise it would be too confusing to discuss something when there's very many ways to say one thing.

 

[bingey]

Both DXM and morphine are morphinans yet one is a dissociative, other opioid - an example of it being different the other way round.

morphine is an opiate not opiod

 

[RDP89]

morphine is an opiate not opiod

It is also an opioid, as it agonizes opioid receptors. The only compounds that are opiates but not opioids are ones fou d naturally in the poppy plant/opium or derived from such but do not have opioid receptor activity.

 

[sekio]

First: I am trying to associate substances into classes. A lot of these questions will be analogies.

Is THC a cannabinoid in the same way DXM is a morphinan?
Is Ethanol an alcohol in the same way LSA is a lysergamide?
Under this train of thought would nicotine be a parasympathomimetic alkloid?

You seem to be blurring the lines between structural descriptions and descriptions of the activity of the drugs. Technically speaking calling THC a cannabinoid describes its activity in a biological system, while calling DXM a morphinan is describing the structural arrangement of atoms in the DXM molecule.

Likewise it would be more correct to call nicotine a pyrrole or a pyridine alkaloid if you are describing its structure, as parasympathomimetics can have diverse structures that all produce similar effects in biological systems.

 

[PINKoPANaTHER]

It seems the questions have all been answered, but for emphasis I will reiterate the main points:

Morphinan/lysergamide describe structural resemblances between chemicals (the so called "backbone") Cannabinoids, parasympathomimetics describe the target receptors and functional effects respectively and so could even be described as different naming conventions (similar to say, calling methamphetamine a dopamine, serotonin, and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor (specific biological effects), while it is at the same time a sympathomimetic (systemic effects, different from neurotransmitter/receptor effects, note that b-adrenergic agonists are also sympathomimetic), and a substituted phenethylamine (structural property)). Alcohols contain a free hydroxyl group and don't necessarily represent a "class" of chemicals as used in the example involving cholesterol. Opioids and cannabinoids are used in the same context, opiates are natural opium alkaloids, and for an example thebaine is an opiate that is not an opioid (that is, it doesn't bind endogenous opioid receptors).

 

[belligerent drunk]

morphine is an opiate not opiod

It is both an opiate and opioid. Opiates are alkaloids found in opium poppy, opioids are substances that bind to opioid receptors. I actually don't see much need for the term opiate as it's only useful for a handful of compounds, only morphine and codeine of the active ones.

Cholesterol has a hydroxyl group, so it can be called an alcohol even though it's not really conventional. That is why I used it as an example - all kinds of molecules contain many different functional groups, so it's a bit different from larger structural elements like morphinan or lysergamide backbones.

 

[MrPitt]

Thanks for the replies. Theybhave been immensely helpful. Nothing like seeing the gaps in your own knowledge. But so much has been cleared up for me. Thanks especially to belligerent drunk, sekio, and aced.