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Legal mephedrone alternative for all (outside UK)

Feretile

Feretile

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I've only just remembered this compound. We were sent a sample and it was very painful to snort. I am not a mephedrone expert but other than the NASTY burn, it felt just like mephedrone. So, how to get around that burn? It's simple in retrospect - don't make the hydrochloride salt, find a more soluble and ideally the MOST water soluble salt. I guess the hydrobromide is the first to try but the sulphate & phosphate are almost certain to work.

Is this old news, did people already sus this one out? Sorry, but I spent a decade out of the loop.

To be safe, it's best applied to compounds with other very labile moieties so the body can metabolise the compound. A p-Me, m-Me, p-MeO, m-MeO, 3,4-MD and all of that 'Benzo Fury' stuff should be fine but anything with a p-(pseudo)halide and/or m-(pseudo)halide will mean the ONLY pathway is dealkylation & oxidation of the amine moiety. That could be a rate-limiting step. I do not say it IS dangerous, but I would not wish to find out the hard way.

Oh, and I suppose all of that 'bath salts' crap would also manage with the terminal -CH3 substituted for a terminal -CH2F. Do not use any halide but -F or you will produce an alkylating agent.
 
Very close to Mexedrone (swap the fluoro for a methoxy). But no, I do not believe that anyone has tried the fluourinated analogue.

I wouldn't expect this to be a worthwhile substitute given how disappointing most of the fluorinated cathinones and amphetamines are, but could still be worth a shot for those with the time and resources available.
 
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Actually the fluorinated amphetamines are pretty great, 4-FA and 4-FMA are both really good drugs. 2-FMA is one of the better functional stimulants available.
 
Ring-substituting with an -F is quite different to swapping the alpha methyl for an alpha fluoromethyl. Considering that cathinones with alkyl chains 3- carbons long suggests that it's quite forgiving BUT as I said, metabolism will be a question.

I mention it because it's so damned cheap. One merely exchanges propanoyl chloride for 3-fluoropropanoyl chloride. I think the SN2 to add the -Br remains the same and similarly the methylamine (or pyrrolidine is better). I mean, it was a keen Chinese lab that sent it to us when mephedrone was banned in the UK.
 
Xorkoth said:
Actually the fluorinated amphetamines are pretty great, 4-FA and 4-FMA are both really good drugs. 2-FMA is one of the better functional stimulants available.
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Pretty great as in better than Adderall/Dexedrine, Meth, MDMA? Or pretty great as in a good alternative for those wanting to stick to legal chems?

My personal issue with RC amphetamines vs. the 'classics' is that the safety profiles seem to be somewhat worse, effects don't sound quite as good, and analogue acts make them arguably illegal in many places anyways.
 
the burn stems from the fluor itself, all halogenated compounds are awfully painful to snort, 2fma not that much but eg the 3 and 4 derivates are. plus the halogens ruin the taste of a compound when vaped (at least when on the aromatic ring). on a terminal alkyl like 5Cl aminoalkyl indoles noids this lead to a sweet taste, but not the 5F compounds i believe.

how is the potency of the compound compared to mephedrone? i read that alkyl fluorinated amphetamines are way weaker that plain amphetamine due to electronegatively dampen the N electron density.

1976 - Action of some fluorinated amphetamine-like compounds
1982 - ANALYSIS OF A MONOFLUOR1NATED ANALOGUE OF AMPHETAMINE
1983 - SOME IN WV0 RESPONSES TO A SIDE CHAIN MONOFLUORlNATED amphetamine
1985 - COMPARISON OF THE EFFECTS OF AMPHETAMINE AND A FLUORINATED analog
 
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arrall said:
Pretty great as in better than Adderall/Dexedrine, Meth, MDMA? Or pretty great as in a good alternative for those wanting to stick to legal chems?

My personal issue with RC amphetamines vs. the 'classics' is that the safety profiles seem to be somewhat worse, effects don't sound quite as good, and analogue acts make them arguably illegal in many places anyways.
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4-FA is as good as amphetamine or MDMA, it's kind of like a cross between the two. Rolly and motivating/stimulating. One of my favorite drugs and the best of the fluorinated amphetamines. 4-FMA is basically a more serotonergic and less dopaminergic meth, some people like it better, I think it's great. 2-FMA is similar to Adderall except it has an effect ceiling so it makes it unappealing to abuse (which means t's a better functional stimulant for me, since when I have Adderall I end up taking a shit ton because I want to get euphoric and then it stops being very functional).

I don't know whether there are studies on the safety of fluorinated amphetamines vs unfluorinated. Obviously chlorinated amphetamines are very toxic, but fluorine and chlorine behave very differently. Certainly the way to be most certain of safety is to stick with the unfluorinated ones, but I have heard speculation from some very intelligent people that there is nothing to fear from fluorinated amphetamines.
 
Xorkoth said:
4-FA is as good as amphetamine or MDMA, it's kind of like a cross between the two. Rolly and motivating/stimulating. One of my favorite drugs and the best of the fluorinated amphetamines. 4-FMA is basically a more serotonergic and less dopaminergic meth, some people like it better, I think it's great. 2-FMA is similar to Adderall except it has an effect ceiling so it makes it unappealing to abuse (which means t's a better functional stimulant for me, since when I have Adderall I end up taking a shit ton because I want to get euphoric and then it stops being very functional).

I don't know whether there are studies on the safety of fluorinated amphetamines vs unfluorinated. Obviously chlorinated amphetamines are very toxic, but fluorine and chlorine behave very differently. Certainly the way to be most certain of safety is to stick with the unfluorinated ones, but I have heard speculation from some very intelligent people that there is nothing to fear from fluorinated amphetamines.
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What do the chlorinated ones do?
 
Neutral compounds are only painful to snort if solubility is the problem.

Unless you have an example of a freely soluble salt of an RC that is painful to snort, I would love to know.

Nitrocaine was a classic - pretty good of smoked, awful if snorted.... because the idiots made the .HCl salt. The phosphate was better, the sulfate even better.

www.pharmtech.com

Salt Selection in Drug Development

The selection of an appropriate salt form for a potential drug candidate is an opportunity to modulate its characteristics to improve bioavailability, stability, manufacturability, and patient compliance.
www.pharmtech.com
 
the best substance to snort was hdmp-28, it was like noose balm and good effects, too.

some of the worst apart from halogenated ones was 3-mec, but effects are so much better nasally. you need 1/5 of it and it feel almost like methylone.
 
izo said:
para-Chloroamphetamine (PCA), also known as 4-chloroamphetamine (4-CA), is a substituted amphetamine and monoamine releaser similar to MDMA, but with substantially higher neurotoxicity, thought to be due to the unrestrained release of both serotonin and dopamine by a metabolite.[1] It is used as a neurotoxin by neurobiologists to selectively kill serotonergic neurons for research purposes, in the same way that 6-hydroxydopamine is used to kill dopaminergic neurons.[2][3][4][5]
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While meanwhile, 4-FA is a lovely drug, sort of like a cross between MDMA and amphetamine. It has been used for a long time and I have seen no reports of neurotoxicity.
 
Feretile said:
Unless you have an example of a freely soluble salt of an RC that is painful to snort, I would love to know.
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Any of the 2C-X class of psychedelics. Worse pain from snorting of any drug, hands down. Just horrific, feels like being kicked in the face while someone takes a power drill to your nose, throbbing, horrible pain that lasts for like 20 minutes. Very soluble in water, too.
 
izo said:
the best substance to snort was hdmp-28, it was like noose balm and good effects, too.

some of the worst apart from halogenated ones was 3-mec, but effects are so much better nasally. you need 1/5 of it and it feel almost like methylone.
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If you think about it, HDMP-28 is not very water-soluble and it's a/b will be more or less identical to plain methylphenidate. Possibly during synthesis they discovered that the freebase was more or less insoluble in ANY protonic solvent and actually make an appropriate addition salt. It's like 2CB. The hydrobromide is much more soluble than the hydrochloride... or diphenidine where the hydrochloride wasn't very soluble, the phosphate pretty soluble but the sulfate VERY soluble - I mean, it's going to be a 1:1 salt i.e. diphenidine hydrogen sulfate. I seem to recall that in Russia, the standard amphetamine workup is the phosphate.
 
in america they use a mixture of sulphates und phospates i believe.
 
The sulphate is in the original patent but I seem to remember that you have to partition the product.... so the workup ends up harder than the synthesis.
 
izo said:
in america they use a mixture of sulphates und phospates i believe.
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For pharmaceutical or illicit amphetamines?

Methamphetamine (hydrochloride) has always dominated the illicit market, AFAIK, other than bootleg Benzedrine tablets ("white crosses") in the 60s/70s.

Adderall, the most popular Rx product currently, is a mix of amphetamine aspartate, d-amphetamine saccharate, and amp/d-amp sulphates.

EDIT: Or were you referring to diphenidine?
 
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