Kratom Withdrawals

[shaughand]

I just went through them. I was afraid of the big bad withdrawal wolf and he turned out to be a puppy.

 

[Snake_Eyes]

At 10 gram a day or less kratom w/d is annoying as most unless you never been through any type of withdrawal before then I could see it being hell to some.

Chills, sweating (especially at night), sleep difficulty and lack of energy although I found this to lessen the more times you detox. The worst I've felt was when I was taking kratom daily AND poopy seed tea 3-4 times that caused some pretty hellish w/d.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

At 10 gram a day or less kratom w/d is annoying as most unless you never been through any type of withdrawal before then I could see it being hell to some.

Chills, sweating (especially at night), sleep difficulty and lack of energy although I found this to lessen the more times you detox. The worst I've felt was when I was taking kratom daily AND poopy seed tea 3-4 times that caused some pretty hellish w/d.

I have been on 10 grams a day or less on and off for a while, including the first time I really used it for around a week, perhaps even less I can't remember exactly but not for long. Currently my use peaked at around 20grams a day... but I did a long term stable use at 7.5-10, and there was no way WD was going to be easy at that time. I would do quick binges on the weekends and switch back to the stable dose on Mondays and still feel restless legs on Monday night/Tues morning. That first short time that I used it just above a week. I actually went into withdrawals, I reckon my habit would have been 3.75 grams (1 1/2 teaspoons a day) - 10 grams on binge days during that short time.

The withdrawals were incredibly difficult. Largely because of the unexpected, but I think more likely because of the restless legs. The day after cessation from that 7-10 days usage, I can say the WDs were not really chronic hardcore symptoms I have heard about RE other opiates and subsequently felt from larger/longer kratom use. But I had restless legs that lingered for nearly 10 days. It was absolute torture, especially not knowing about all the information I have now. I ended up tying scarves around my calves EXTREMELY tightly, it was the only thing that felt like it did anything. I think the pain, something to concentrate on, and cutting the blood supply all helped a little, but I was still up all night for days. I tried taking Ambien for a few days and side effects exhausted me beyond belief - especially when coupled with the general kratom WD exhaustion and restless legs effect on my sleep and days.

So even short term usage can lead to some difficult and exhausting and surprisingly protracted WDs for some. Albeit not in the extreme, but still subjectively very hard and quite depressing.

I am now documenting a much longer and more cautious taper process here: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/813619-About-to-do-a-Kratom-Detox

I can't recommend you try my methods as I am doing a lot of experimenting and making mistakes along the way, but you can use it as a resource to research further how you want to approach it. I am in a dangerous mental health situation so I'm treating the detox with extreme caution. But perhaps to the point that by fucking around with so many comfort meds, I might get myself into more trouble

Kratom works great for kicking a opiate addiction due to its own ability to attach itself to the opiate receptors in your brain, while blocking actual opiates from attaching.

I have NEVER heard of someone havig any withdraws from even after 60 days of use. I have seen many peoples lives returned to them thanks to the help of this super botanical and I have seen people avoid far more dangerous drugs etc, by using Kratom for energy - the killing of pain - the assisting with withdraws and blocking opiates during this withdraw.

....

quoting these first 2 paragraphs for bullshit.

I have used kratom alongside other opiates many times and there is nothing but reinforcement and additional opiate effects, no feeling of competition going on between the 2.

You never wanted to hear - in this thread you now should have heard.

I agree that kratom seems less dangerous, only by what my body tells me. Compared to DHC for example, after 3 days of using DHC I feel yucky and toxic all over and the buzz becomes shit. Kratom continues to be a comfort even after I have kind of corrupted my enjoyment of it overall. It seemed to be one of the more benign substances to be hooked on long term, if only one could very carefully manage tolerance creep and also combat the dreadful Kratom hangover in the morning and how it affects breakfast. I'm sure there may be methods to do this, have been researching some. But I would not try them at this time due to my desire to detox from this physical addiction and re-monitor myself sober. Also I have not heard of anyone using kratom long term with a tolerance prevention system, perhaps because I haven't looked yet. The other issue with long term use is the massive energy dips between doses, especially if eating food on top (kills the dose pretty quick), or eating dose after eating (takes a very long time to kick in and you are tired from eating already). It was much more fun and useful when it kept me motivated all day.

 

[belfort]

Not safe, at all. And loperamide is even worse to kick then kratom for sure so it's not worth trading addictions. And then you have things to worry about like impact stool or toxic megacolon (if you make a habit of megadosing loperamide to avoid withdrawals), and loperamide also has some really fucking seriously fucked withdrawals, worse then regular opiates.

True but loperamide does not get you high at low doses and it will alleviate withdrawals to a point..I recommend loperamide..also for those kicking kratom you should pick up agmatine..it will reduc all withdrawal symptoms

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

True but loperamide does not get you high at low doses and it will alleviate withdrawals to a point..I recommend loperamide..also for those kicking kratom you should pick up agmatine..it will reduc all withdrawal symptoms

I've heard claims that agmatine can help with withdrawals but I've also heard claims that it's totally worthless... something to do with absorption or its ability to cross the BBB or some other thing (I'm sorry I can't remember). I don't know which to believe tbh cause I've heard both claims come from fairly intelligent/respected individuals.

Any idea how much and how often one should dose agmatine? Are there any effects at the needed dose besides helping to alleviate wds?

I'm currently enduring the world's longest and slowest taper to get off of opiods. At this rate it'll srill be months before I jump completely off. I bought a decent amount of agmatine that I will use when I do finally jump. I'll report if it helps (I really hope it does).

 

[Fidelity]

This thread started in 2009. That bump doe

how would you even begin to get addicted to loperamide? You'd require so much to even get a 'high'

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

This thread started in 2009. That bump doe

how would you even begin to get addicted to loperamide? You'd require so much to even get a 'high'

It can happen when somebody is facing opiods withdrawal and switches to megadose loperamide in order to keep well.

Someone can switch to loperamide and not have anything else to switch back to so they continue to take it day after day. Some people will escilate their loperamide dose during this time in attempt to feel even better. This is a mistake for many reasons... One of which, is that mega doses of loperamide can totally destroy tolerance. If someone switches to loperamide and stays on it for awhile while escilating their dose (or they start off with too high a dose to begin with), then they can quickly find themselves in a situation where nothing keeps them out of withdrawal except for super mega doses of loperamide. It's a horrible predicament to be in especially with loperamide's very serious effects on the heart.

Loperamide should not be used in megadoses but if it must be used then the smallest dose needed should be taken for the very shortest amount of time as possible.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

how would you even begin to get addicted to loperamide? You'd require so much to even get a 'high'

Actually, there are a few threads about people addicted to lope and taking extremely high doses like 100-200mg

 

[ChinaCat13]

I just have to say to those who say kratom isnt addictive or that you dont get bad withdrawal from it, you're completely wrong. I started taking it because I thought it was non addictive. I am in hell right now praying for death because the withdrawal is 10x worse than heroin withdrawal minus the vomiting and diarrhea. The best way to describe what I feel is.... laying in a bathtub and someone threw in a hair dryer. My whole body feels electrified, every single nerve is screaming. My stomach feels like there's a facehugger alien in there trying to bust out. My nose wont stop running. My feet are numb. I'm sweating and freezing. This is fucking terrible. It is relentless. There should be more information out there. Especially the bad stuff, that's why I'm posting this. Kratom is great for detoxing from opiates, I'm sure. I have serious back issues and bad arthritis, so I was looking for a natural safe alternative for pain relief. If I would have known then what I know now, I would have never ever tried it.

 

[Ziiirp]

You never detoxed from Opiates, you just naively switched to Kratom. Tapering is the key. I am 13 days off and and I never even had RLS, because I did a quick taper. I never touched opiates in my life. Maybe that makes the difference. Your WD is mainly the postponed opiate WD. Kratom as a opiate substitute should be slowly tapered. Start a taper from a high dose to a miniscule dose and you will be fine.

 

[Slow_Mobius]

I couldn't agree more. Tapering is essential. There's a massive difference between CTing 15g/day and CTing 5g/day. And there definitely seems to be a correlation between people having previously abused opioids and experiencing more severe kratom WD

 

[ChinaCat13]

I was off heroin for 7 years before I started kratom. I have detoxed many times. I have used opiates since then, but never long term, not long enough to get addicted again. So, I was completely clean for a long time before I ever started kratom. It has nothing to do with opiates. My dosage is really not that high compared to a lot of posts I've seen. I dose a half a tbsp 2-3 times a day. It used to be once a day, for pain but then came the tolerance. I have never upped the amount of kratom per dose, just the amount I take daily, which at maximum is 6-7 grams.

 

[Ziiirp]

Just read that ChinaCat13 has athritis. Maybe it does not even make sense to get off of Kratom then ? I mean are there alternatives ? Sorry, that you are in pain. Perhaps reduce your Kratom dose significantly before WD cold turkey and try some alternatives. (I could imagine dissociatives help, but that may be a bad idea, since they cause joint pain during the comedown for me, but you can counteract that with glucosamine). Or maybe physio helps. To me it seems, that you have been badly counseled.

Did you use extracts ? I was on plain leaf for ~5 years daily and I did not feel many WD symptoms (insomnia was the worst, but valerian, 2mg loperamide, melatonine worked for me). I even went to work during the first 5 days and nobody realized the difference.

 

[ChinaCat13]

I use powdered leaf, super indo, or maeng da. I alternate to help with strain tolerance. It would be ideal to just stay on kratom, sure. But I do not want to be addicted to anything. And when Im broke and cant afford the kratom, I am in hell. I dont want to live like this but now I'm stuck, again, with an addiction. Oh, and also, the detox lasts soooo much longer. Last time I tried to detox I hit day 12 and couldn't take it anymore. It was a nightmare. Also, I go into withdrawal about 4 hours after my last dose, without fail. It's ridiculous. So every day I wake up sick, and can never sleep through the night because I wake up in withdrawal. I just want it to be over but can't handle the length of the detox. I read one post at a forum where a guy was on day 42 of detox and still feeling like death. Im so pissed.

 

[Slow_Mobius]

I was off heroin for 7 years before I started kratom. I have detoxed many times. I have used opiates since then, but never long term, not long enough to get addicted again. So, I was completely clean for a long time before I ever started kratom. It has nothing to do with opiates. My dosage is really not that high compared to a lot of posts I've seen. I dose a half a tbsp 2-3 times a day. It used to be once a day, for pain but then came the tolerance. I have never upped the amount of kratom per dose, just the amount I take daily, which at maximum is 6-7 grams.

The kindling effect is probably at play here. Sorry to hear your WD are bad. I still think you need to taper if they're not manageable.

 

[Ziiirp]

I use powdered leaf, super indo, or maeng da. I alternate to help with strain tolerance. It would be ideal to just stay on kratom, sure. But I do not want to be addicted to anything. And when Im broke and cant afford the kratom, I am in hell. I dont want to live like this but now I'm stuck, again, with an addiction. Oh, and also, the detox lasts soooo much longer. Last time I tried to detox I hit day 12 and couldn't take it anymore. It was a nightmare. Also, I go into withdrawal about 4 hours after my last dose, without fail. It's ridiculous. So every day I wake up sick, and can never sleep through the night because I wake up in withdrawal. I just want it to be over but can't handle the length of the detox. I read one post at a forum where a guy was on day 42 of detox and still feeling like death. Im so pissed.

That sounds horrible to me. I get more and more the feeling, that most of you guys in the US get adulterated Kratom (maybe often they mix o-desmethyltramadol into it, which is a strong opioid) or perhaps you have just really genetically enhanced Kratom in the US, which causes all this trouble. In Europe the Kratom you get is nothing, an opiate user would fancy, it is just a weird herbal drug on par with maybe Cannabis. The Kratom here is acts more like a stimulant. I once had so called "Red Vein Kratom USA" and it made me almost vomit from a low dose, I could not get out of bed for a few hours or move, it was so strong.

Did you try Phillipino or Vietnamese strains ? Those are the most natural imho (maybe change your vendor and make sure, that it is not adulterated at all, Kratom should not have such a high content of 7-ho-mitragynine/mitragynine.)

 

[Slow_Mobius]

That sounds horrible to me. I get more and more the feeling, that most of you guys in the US get adulterated Kratom (maybe often they mix o-desmethyltramadol into it, which is a strong opioid) or perhaps you have just really genetically enhanced Kratom in the US, which causes all this trouble. In Europe the Kratom you get is nothing, an opiate user would fancy, it is just a weird herbal drug on par with maybe Cannabis. The Kratom here is acts more like a stimulant. I once had so called "Red Vein Kratom USA" and it made me almost vomit from a low dose, I could not get out of bed for a few hours or move, it was so strong.

Did you try Phillipino or Vietnamese strains ? Those are the most natural imho (maybe change your vendor and make sure, that it is not adulterated at all, Kratom should not have such a high content of 7-ho-mitragynine/mitragynine.)

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this was at least partly true. I've noticed that kratom from certain vendors feels more sedating and generally more like an opiate, whereas kratom from other vendors feels weaker and more stimulating.

But I definitely think ChinaCat's WD are much more severe because of the kindling effect from previous opioid use.

 

[ChinaCat13]

I have no access to buy anything online(no credit card) so I am only limited to buy at the local vape shop. Kratom used to make me super nauseated but once I became addicted, of course, the nausea went away. I live in a small town, and can't travel far to anything in the city. There are only 2 places nearby that sell kratom and the place Ive been getting it from is the only one that is reasonably priced. I pay <snip> per ounce. The other store has it for <snip> for a half an ounce. Im not sure where my store gets their stuff from, the owners brother is usually working and he doesnt speak good english so it's hard to talk to him to hold a conversation long enough to ask him the details.

 

[Mycophile]

I just have to say to those who say kratom isnt addictive or that you dont get bad withdrawal from it, you're completely wrong. I started taking it because I thought it was non addictive. I am in hell right now praying for death because the withdrawal is 10x worse than heroin withdrawal minus the vomiting and diarrhea. The best way to describe what I feel is.... laying in a bathtub and someone threw in a hair dryer. My whole body feels electrified, every single nerve is screaming. My stomach feels like there's a facehugger alien in there trying to bust out. My nose wont stop running. My feet are numb. I'm sweating and freezing. This is fucking terrible. It is relentless. There should be more information out there. Especially the bad stuff, that's why I'm posting this. Kratom is great for detoxing from opiates, I'm sure. I have serious back issues and bad arthritis, so I was looking for a natural safe alternative for pain relief. If I would have known then what I know now, I would have never ever tried it.

While Kratom IS addictive, and I'm sorry your WD is so bad, I don't see how the WD you are experiencing can mostly be from Kratom or how it can be worse than Heroin.

I think it is pretty close to unanimously agreed upon that Kratom WD cannot be nearly as bad as Heroin WD.

I've never heard anyone say it is "10X worse than Heroin WD".

Are you sure you are not still withdrawing from another opiate and mistaking that WD for Kratom WD?

Where you taking another opiate prior to Kratom?

And how many grams do you take and days per week do you take Kratom?

I just don't think Kratom WD can be as bad as Heroin WD, even though it is certainly addictive.

If it is for you, you are certainly a big minority there and very few people feel that way.

 

[Slow_Mobius]

Do you have access to any comfort meds like gabapentin or pregabalin? Tapering is best, but if you can't get more kratom to taper, then you're next best option is to take something to help you through the WD process.